15 Sec Log Out Timer is being abused to avoid PvP (Seeking Genuine Feedback)

itwasntme

I
Hi there,

Let me start by saying this is not a name and shame thread. The videos I will be linking are to highlight the issue which I will be describing.

I have raised this as a Ticket through the Frontier site, and have also raised a Suggestion thread which has been forwarded to the Design Team.

However, I have also been advised by members of the FDev Support team (CMDR Vanguard and CMDR Asterix) to raise the issue here as it needs to be discussed by the Community. If it turns out that this is an issue that needs remedying, then the voices of the many can get this issue fixed. IF the voices of the many agree there is an issue that needs fixing of course.

So let me begin...

We all know that Combat Logging is against the rules and that a CMDR can be banned from Open Play if they are found to be Combat Logging.

We all also know that using the menu log out 15 second timer is NOT combat logging and IS allowed by Frontier as a means to exit the game legitimately.

However, I have noticed an increase in CMDRs using this method as form of 'soft' combat logging.

I'll copy and paste what I wrote in this Suggestion thread (https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...u-should-not-be-available-during-interdiction)

=========
Being able to use the 15 second log out during interdiction should not be possible. Here's what I mean for test purposes:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTtJRd0trks



you're probably thinking, so what? Nothing wrong with that.


That's where you're wrong. This is a huge problem from a PvP perspective.


We all know that Combat Logging (killing the client, or killing the internet connection) can lead to being banned from Open Play. But, in it's current state, logging out and waiting for the 15 second timer is fine.


So, let's see the 'Log Out Abuse' in action, in a real situation:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oabIW0rOSuE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kiJS_UTc3s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSSJLAecBCo



See, they all abused/exploited the log out mechanic to avoid combat/death.


So, I think there are 2 options to remedy this.


1) disable the Option menu during interdiction, or
2) increase the log out timer to 60 seconds.


15 seconds is not long enough considering that you can survive the interdiction event for longer than that by doing nothing.
===========

Please take the time to read the above and view the supporting Video evidence.

I am not naming and shaming, I am highlighting what I think is an abuse of the 15 sec log out timer to avoid combat.

I am seeking genuine feedback on this issue with the aim to either get it fixed as I've suggested above or to be persuaded that this is not an issue and that logging out during interdiction is a fair way to avoid PvP.

Thanks,

CMDR Archon-Fury
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Robert Maynard
Frontier's stance posted here on the forums:

Sandro Sammarco said:
Hello Commanders!

To clarify: the official stance on exiting the game via the menu, at any point, is that it is legitimate. I suspect at some point we may increase the "in danger" countdown, but for now you just have to wait fifteen seconds.

However, we can't speak for how other Commanders view such actions.

For the record, when we talk about "combat logging" at Frontier, we mean the act of ungracefully exiting the game (either by ALT-F4 type procedures or by cutting the network traffic).
Click to expand...

... and a forum poll:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/258904-Poll-about-exit-to-menu-delay-time
 
Last edited:

itwasntme

I
that poll is all well and good. and even though I don't like it when people do log out during combat using the 15 sec method, I am fine with it. Because, the fight had started and the player decided to hit the log out rather than high wake (or combat log).

I'm referring to the abuse of the timer to avoid combat by simply logging out when interdiction starts. I don't think that was covered in the poll.
 
Last edited:

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Robert Maynard
The last poll option suggests "exit at will".

If Frontier had wanted to disable the menu exit for the target when another player engaged them (whether directly or by interdiction) they could have - they didn't however.
 

Miklos Atreides

Miklos Atreides
itwasntme said:
that poll is all well and good. and even though I don't like it when people do log out during combat using the 15 sec method, I am fine with it. Because, the fight had started and the player decided to hit the log out rather than high wake (or combat log).

I'm referring to the abuse of the timer to avoid combat by simply logging out when interdiction starts. I don't think that was covered in the poll.
Click to expand...

as per Frontiers definition above cited by Robert there is no abuse because the term 'at any point' was used.

Regards,
Miklos
 
Last edited:

Jabezz

J
What happens when someone commences the 15 second 'soft log' at the start of an interdiction? Does the game instantly submit them to the interdiction i.e. like throttling to zero?

If so I reckon most modded ships would have enough fire power to take the ship down within that 15 second timer? Or am I over estimating that?
 
Last edited:

itwasntme

I
'at any point' probably didn't take in to consideration that you can resist interdiction for longer than 15 secs by putting full throttle and then logging out.

So in effect, Frontier are saying Combat Logging is fine using this method then. And yes, I do refer to the 15-sec log out as 'combat logging' when used in this manner. If combat was already initiated, and I was winning, and the target wanted to log out, then that's fine. I have 15 secs to do the job. But logging out at the start of interdiction will negate combat entirely and therefore is combat logging.

- - - Updated - - -

Jabezz said:
What happens when someone commences the 15 second 'soft log' at the start of an interdiction? Does the game instantly submit them to the interdiction i.e. like throttling to zero?

If so I reckon most modded ships would have enough fire power to take the ship down within that 15 second timer? Or am I over estimating that?
Click to expand...

please see the vids I linked in the opening topic.
 

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead
Preventing genuine non-loggers from using the menu is a bit harsh to be honest, so is a 60 second timer. Lol

I do get that logging is frustrating for you though, and something needs to be done.

If (big if), FD increased the timer for logging out via the menu during danger.
Then I would more or less demand they change the way the menu works.
If I received a phonecall, or the postman knocked on the door, neither are going to wait 60 seconds while I wait for the log out timer to expire. I'm lucky if the postman even knocks, let alone waits 15 seconds. Lol

So, what I suggest, to add to your suggestion(and IMHO, should work this way anyway), is change the log out timer, so you press quit, then it asks you to confirm the logout, then the 15-60 second timer starts, and when it hits zero, you log out automatically. Of course, with a cancel button too.
That way, legitimate players needing to tend to real life, can, without having to sit like a melon waiting for a timer to end.

:)

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead
 

kaivalagi

kaivalagi
I've always said that the best solution here is if you are being attacked the 15 second countdown should be reset, so only once you've evaded attack for 15 seconds can you exit
 

itwasntme

I
CMDR_Cosmicspacehead said:
Preventing genuine non-loggers from using the menu is a bit harsh to be honest, so is a 60 second timer. Lol

I do get that logging is frustrating for you though, and something needs to be done.

If (big if), FD increased the timer for logging out via the menu during danger.
Then I would more or less demand they change the way the menu works.
If I received a phonecall, or the postman knocked on the door, neither are going to wait 60 seconds while I wait for the log out timer to expire. I'm lucky if the postman even knocks, let alone waits 15 seconds. Lol

So, what I suggest, to add to your suggestion(and IMHO, should work this way anyway), is change the log out timer, so you press quit, then it asks you to confirm the logout, then the 15-60 second timer starts, and when it hits zero, you log out automatically. Of course, with a cancel button too.
That way, legitimate players needing to tend to real life, can, without having to sit like a melon waiting for a timer to end.

:)

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead
Click to expand...

well yeah, adding an 'auto confirm' when the counter counts down is fine. But not what I'm referring to in this thread. I'm referring to those who are blatantly abusing the 15 sec log out timer to avoid CMDR combat by logging out at the start of the interdiction process.
 
Last edited:

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Robert Maynard
itwasntme said:
well yeah, adding an 'auto confirm' when the counter counts down is fine. But not what I'm referring to in this thread. I'm referring to those who are blatantly abusing the 15 sec log out timer to avoid CMDR combat.
Click to expand...

Some players do not enjoy PvP.

Frontier have not chosen to provide an Open-PvE game mode - so any player that wants to play among an unlimited population must play in Open.

Frontier have also said that use of the menu exit is legitimate at any time.
 

Deleted member 110222

D
OP, I get the frustration. I appreciate the need for the timer for those rare occasions that someone has to go. However, I am convinced that most 15-sec users are just using it to avoid PvP.

So this is what I do. If the target stops turning, but takes damage, I kill him as quickly as possible.

Might be brutal against those who really had to pick up a parcel, but hell. That's a risk you accept in Open.

Sue me.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

itwasntme

I
Robert Maynard said:
Some players do not enjoy PvP.

Frontier have not chosen to provide an Open-PvE game mode - so any player that wants to play among an unlimited population must play in Open.

Frontier have also said that use of the menu exit is legitimate at any time.
Click to expand...

I'll avoid talking about PvP itself. there are many ways to avoid it legitimately.

Frontier may have said that the use of the menu exit is legitimate at any time, but I don't think they are aware that it's being used to completely avoid combat simply by not submitting to interdiction and then logging out. It takes longer for the interdiction to complete than it does for the CMDR to log out, and therefore they completely avoid combat. e.g. same as combat logging.

I'm not saying to get rid of the 15 sec log out timer. I'm saying that it should not be possible to log out during interdiction. Sure, try and win it, and if you win then good. Or, lose/submit and THEN log out. But surely not be able to log out at the start of the interdiction process.
 

itwasntme

I
Un1k0rn said:
OP, I get the frustration. I appreciate the need for the timer for those rare occasions that someone has to go. However, I am convinced that most 15-sec users are just using it to avoid PvP.

So this is what I do. If the target stops turning, but takes damage, I kill him as quickly as possible.

Might be brutal against those who really had to pick up a parcel, but hell. That's a risk you accept in Open.

Sue me.
Click to expand...

I really don't mind people logging out with the 15 sec timer to avoid PvP... just as long as the PvP has actually commenced. I know that I have 15 secs to finish them off, and if I can't do it, then fair enough. They logged out legitimately.

What I do mind is CMDRs hitting the log out at the start of the interdiction process. It takes longer than 15 secs to win the interdiction process if the target puts throttle up and logs out.

I get the feeling most of you are just skipping the whole point of the thread.

I'm not moaning about not being able to kill CMDRs in 15 secs when they log out. I'm moaning that they are able to log out during the interdiction process (See vids)
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Robert Maynard
itwasntme said:
I'll avoid talking about PvP itself. there are many ways to avoid it legitimately.

Frontier may have said that the use of the menu exit is legitimate at any time, but I don't think they are aware that it's being used to completely avoid combat simply by not submitting to interdiction and then logging out. It takes longer for the interdiction to complete than it does for the CMDR to log out, and therefore they completely avoid combat. e.g. same as combat logging.

I'm not saying to get rid of the 15 sec log out timer. I'm saying that it should not be possible to log out during interdiction. Sure, try and win it, and if you win then good. Or, lose/submit and THEN log out. But surely not be able to log out at the start of the interdiction process.
Click to expand...

.... except, unlike Combat Logging (per Frontier's definition), delayed menu exit is legitimate at any time - not just when the player is not being interdicted.
 

itwasntme

I
Genar-Hofoen said:
Oh look it's this thread again. Hello, old friend.
Click to expand...

someone else has started a thread about CMDRs logging off during interdiction? please link.

this thread is not about extending the 15 sec log out timer so that we have more time to kill someone. this thread is about the abuse of the log out timer to avoid combat simply by logging out when the interdiction process starts.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Robert Maynard
itwasntme said:
someone else has started a thread about CMDRs logging off during interdiction? please link.

this thread is not about extending the 15 sec log out timer so that we have more time to kill someone. this thread is about the abuse of the log out timer to avoid combat simply by logging out when the interdiction process starts.
Click to expand...

It does rather seem that the aim is to force the targeted player to either win the interdiction or give the interdictor time to attempt to destroy them.

Whether using the menu exit to avoid PvP combat is abuse would seem to be for Frontier to determine - and, as Sandro has said, they don't expect that everyone will agree with their stance.

Bear in mind though that Frontier would seem to be well aware that the majority of players do not get involved in PvP....
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom