Yep, boring, repetitive moaning
15 Sec Log Out Timer is being abused to avoid PvP (Seeking Genuine Feedback)
- Thread starter itwasntme
- Start date
Yep, boring, repetitive moaning
that's the first thing that anyone has said so far that actually makes sense as to why logging off during interdiction is 'legal' and not an 'abuse'. Good point!
I still think it's an unfair use of logging out though. The 15 sec timer is there to warn you that your ship is in danger, but from the interdictor's point of view, the danger doesn't start until the interdiction is complete.
The interdictee, in my opinion, is cheating.
They can use the 15 sec log out as soon as the interdiction completes, that's fair enough, at least the interdictor get's their 15 secs worth of trying to kill them.
It's remarkably unfair, but to paraphrase our friendly neighbourhood mod up there, FD do not give a flying monkey about keeping PvP comfy.
This won't change and this thread won't change anything. Unless there has been a sudden re-prioritisation, FD cannot even be bothered to moderate the illegitimate cases of CLing. We may as well call the entire subject moot and produce a giant, pink, in-game "run away" button, adorned with the face of Brave Sir Robin, that CLs for you.
Put it this way. I have a module that transports me to another dimention. It takes 15 seconds to spool up.
But not in Frontier's and they write the rules.
Yes but you are annoying people by saying it is cheating. Honestly you sound like a spoilt kid who's lost his dummy. Give it a break, please.
Finally, someone sticking up for me, just as I was about to hit the self-destruct button.
Well, considering what you've just said, and the not so nice 'shut up' response from SMcA, which is hardly constructive, I have come up with a plan to counter said 'log out abusers'...
for every CMDR that does this to me, I will kill 5 CMDRs which would usually fall outside of my RoE and send a message "CMDR <whoever it was that logged> has requested that you die in his place"
If they completely avoid combat, then surely they aren't combat logging ...
You can't claim people combat log when they aren't in combat. That's just silly.
You'll learn very quickly there isn't even the pretense of balanced discussion here. The vast majority of players on the FD forums are PvE, and so I hear the PvP players all go to Reddit to avoid the general stupidity you can find here too frequently.
I am not entirely sure ganking others would resolve the issue, but....your game time bud. You do what you want.
I simply gave up on pirating because CLing makes it completely impossible and engage largely in pure combat only, where I can feel comfortable that their self-humiliation doesn't impact me as much. And yes, players that come into a CZ still log when fired on by the opposing side.
That you can't be involved in combat because you don't want to be is an even worse assertion...
In any case, desperate semantics shot is desperate. Tom-eh-to, tom-ah-to.
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They are only not in combat because they log off during the interdiction which would result in combat.
Anyway, combat logging is a term relating to avoiding combat through task kill/internet kill.
These CMDRs are avoiding combat through abusing the 15-sec log out timer.
Right, as StiTch points out, seems that these Forums pander way too much in favour of PvE and cast aside PvP as merely a trivial and minor part of ED that shouldn't have a place at all.
Thank you for your time, attention, and genuine feedback
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while we are at semantics, I'd suggest to change "PVP" in above sentence to "non-consensual PVP-Combat".
in consensual PVP you'll also run very rarely into the problem of people logging out of the game if you try to interact with them in the game.
consensual PVP-combat is a lot of fun. you can choose loadouts or choose not to do so, no mandatory engineer grind, you can define winning conditions or fight till one is destroyed, you can agree upon highwaking being allowed, leaving the system, you can discuss the fight afterwards and learn from each other, etc. pp. - and if one of you has to go, he'll drop you a message. great thing!
another good option is a private group, where you set up a rule like "don't exit to menu during interdiction". put up a group thread, and get people joining your group - and if somebody is not sticking to those rules, you can fire them from the group. or make a deal with your friends in open - hunt each other, and consent on not logging out, not highwaking maybe, etc. as you can see friends on the galaxy map, such frenemies can be a great thing.
as the game is designed, destruction in non-consensual pvp-combat is optional in any mode; your exampel is telling.
I'm personally on the fence with the 15 seconds timer, because having a family i run regularly into a situation where i would want to exit directly - my main gripe is with the game needing a confirmation after 15 seconds, i wouldn't mind it so much if it would auto-end after 1 minute.... but 15 seconds can be a looong time when dinner is ready or my daughter needs urgently help with her homework.
False.
CZ combat on opposing sides = consensual as it gets.
I'd say 80 to 90% of players I fight in a CZ CL on me, regardless of how "legit" I make it appear in-game. As a test this even included stating my intent and reason before going Hans Solo and firing the first shot.
This bit is spot on though.
The 15 sec timer doesn't even make sense for its intended purpose for "when RL happens" because as you say, have to be present to use it. So yes it is just as much a combat escape mechanism as anything else.
FD stated that they are considering increasing the timer. Perhaps they would feel happier doing so also implementing an auto-quit at the end of this timer.
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probably they don't go into the CZ to fight you, and maybe they look for somebody to wing up?
yes, i really hope for an auto-quit. in case of an RL "emergency" i wouldn't mind a rebuy, whether from a player or from a NPC... but on a regular basis it just sucks to wait time till menu plops up + 15 seconds, because you are in an asteroid field mining.
Sorry, but even mobius recognises opposing sides in a CZ constitutes grounds for agreeing to combat.
You literally cannot be more "consensual" than being on opposing sides of a war.
I think if you were to take it so narrowly as "planned PvP only", it's a really clear lack of understanding for PvP as a whole - and frankly why have Open mode? This whole "push PvPers towards quietly doing their thing in the corner" mentality gets boring fast.
But still, saltiness aside, perhaps you should raise a suggestion with regards to the timer, which I can't believe I didn't think of before. If that happened and FD were able to integrate network or task killing into a karma system as negatives - penalising both them and your typical ganker - we'd have a most interesting playing field.
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Unfortunately enterprising individuals will find ways around that.
I am sure some will, and a fair few more will not find a way. The precedent would be nice to set though.
It only takes one, and it'll be all over. You'll have people doing nefarious things to ding innocent peoples karma that they'll have absolutely no knowledge of until they get the email or whatever.
If anything exists in a game that gains advantage or can be used maliciously to directly harm other players - it will be used.
or any of the other zillions of possible easy fixes, many of which have been discussed.
instead, frontier went with a) that silly wait dialog that solves nothing and b) a moral statement in the game rules which they pledged to enforce manually (although considerable neglect in this area has been observed).
just so you guys (hey op!) can adjust your expectations a bit regarding this issue.
you're welcome!
Sorry bud, it's FD's job to make it work, not ours. In fact integrating it into Karma was FD's idea, shortly before every PvE player ever plagiarised the idea to focus it on whatever punishments they felt would be fun for gankers.
Bottom line is that even FD accept CLing is an issue, even they said they want to make it part of a karma system (it's hysterical that the player base here is even more anti-PvP than FD), and something HAS to be done.
To refuse to develop the CLing situation any further would be basically moronic, for want of a more appropriate word that would alas be removed for swearing. Will it be developed? I imagine so. When? Hell no any time soon! Likely in six years when they finally work out how they're doing this CP lark.
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With all that is said so far, you've overlooked one thing.
If FD magically fixed combat logging during an Interdiction, you'd just see a lot more people illegally combat logging during an Interdiction, and it'll be a hell of a lot harder to prove.
In my experience, disconnects during Interdictions happen alot.
Unless I'm missing something, FD would have no choice but to give the logger the benefit of the doubt, because a normal Interdiction disconnect would look very similar to an illegal combat log.
P2P strikes again. Lol
If FD magically fixed combat logging during an Interdiction, you'd just see a lot more people illegally combat logging during an Interdiction, and it'll be a hell of a lot harder to prove.
In my experience, disconnects during Interdictions happen alot.
Unless I'm missing something, FD would have no choice but to give the logger the benefit of the doubt, because a normal Interdiction disconnect would look very similar to an illegal combat log.
P2P strikes again. Lol
First off I, and I suspect many others, are somewhat offended by your negativity toward players who legally logout using this procedure. The Devs made the decision to start the timer coding at the interdiction not the players. Thus the entire thread sets off a negative tone instead of simply discussing the procedure. Avoiding interdiction one would naturally max out the throttle, chase the target and go for the logout. There was no intention of abuse by the player. One could also suggest that an interdiction is not yet actual combat so a player has a choice whether to participate or not. Maybe that is what was actually intended allowing logout before combat occurs.
As for the procedure another issue is the massive capabilities of the offensive weapons and modules with enhanced engineering while the defensive modules are usually adjusted in the opposite direction getting nerfed as is with the current case of the shield boosters. There have been many including decreasing the speed and manuverability of ships, generating massive heat using a shield cell bank, etc.
Thus 15 seconds may be entirely too long in actual combat even for a ship with upgraded defenses. With the new engineered weapons dedicated to taking out the power plant or frame shift drive it is still death by self-destruct when they log back into the game. It is certain death for a new player in a small stock ship. Still zero combat risk is a factor. Some ideas:
1. Leave the procedure as is for those who do not desire to engage in combat. That is the best solution as now we have invented a RULE where combat is mutually agreed upon by both parties. Players desiring to participate will continue with the instance. It is not perfect and will need some consideration but is moving in the right direction.
2. If the player sets the throttle to zero during introduction then the 15 second timer starts. If the throttle is increased from the initial zero position then the timer is cancelled and the process starts again.
3. Upon dropping into normal space after interdiction there a fixed 10 second logout can be performed. Depending upon the capabilities of the defensive ship some will manage to escape and others will not. That is more correctly aimed at balance.
Going a full 15 seconds in combat is another nerf, just like the shields, making PVP aggression and getting the kill all that much easier to accomplish. That probably does not sit well with many players who don't want to take on a heavily armed Anaconda with their Cobra Mk III. Nor is it responsible game play for the Anaconda to take on ships with little or no capability to defend themselves.
Of course that comes back to the argument "if they are WANTED then it is legal" or "play in Open then it is all legal". That is the REAL PROBLEM with Open play having no rules of engagement (other than combat logging) and no punishment for abusing the rules. Work on that and a timer would not even be needed.
Regards
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