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its not a PvP or PvE issue tho, OPs suggestions would improve all modes of play regardless of whether we play Coop, Solo or anything goes.
FD's huge mistake in taking consequences out of the game in favour of a do what you want when you want mentality
- Thread starter SkipRat
- Start date
its not a PvP or PvE issue tho, OPs suggestions would improve all modes of play regardless of whether we play Coop, Solo or anything goes.
verminstar
Banned
Good op rep added ^
Its the reason I dont wanna be a bad boy in this game...no consequences ergo no novelty ergo its a role playing career. I need a bit more than that, but this game is way too shallow fer that and the direction FD appear to be taking is an arcade type sandpit with few if any real consequences.
Its kinda sad tbh...so much more could have been done ^
Its the reason I dont wanna be a bad boy in this game...no consequences ergo no novelty ergo its a role playing career. I need a bit more than that, but this game is way too shallow fer that and the direction FD appear to be taking is an arcade type sandpit with few if any real consequences.
Its kinda sad tbh...so much more could have been done ^
And since when has that stopped these forums turning anything into a PvE vs PvP issue?
I agree with OP. Make consequences for everything. Not just for crime.
A bounty hunter should be equally unwanted in an anarchy as a pirate should be in a high sec. system.
Make NPC ships equal or better than player builds to enable them to enforce their power.
Give players the option to join NPC wings for 'trust building' missions.
A bounty hunter should be equally unwanted in an anarchy as a pirate should be in a high sec. system.
Make NPC ships equal or better than player builds to enable them to enforce their power.
Give players the option to join NPC wings for 'trust building' missions.
I would expect that players who attack other players should at the minimum lose their privileges with The Pilot's Federation. There are few organisations in this world where an unsanctioned attack on another member of the same organisation doesn't get you thrown out (or at least temporarily suspended) from said organisation. Try something like that in the Mafia and see how well that goes for you.
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One of the biggest problems that led to the no consequences gameplay is the lack of 'Alts'. You can't lock someone to a single path if you only have one character, expecting someone to clear save and start again just because they're no longer happy with the Cmdr they've created isn't going to work long term. Yes there is a slight risk that someone could have a ganker/griefer 'Alt', but so long as you can't transfer credits between 'Alts' the risk is minimal as the specific 'alt' would still be affected by the consequences for their actions.
Essentially I agree that being a pirate (whether pve or pvp) should mark you out as always being dodgy and not being welcome in the highest security areas (this should also be major faction specific, I doubt the Imps would care if you've been pirating Fed ships and vice versa). Get too bad a reputation and perhaps even the pirates wouldn't want anything to do with you. You should also only be able to choose being in the Imp. or the Fed. military, not both. Smugglers and Assassins should also be similarly tagged and lead to you getting more scans from the police and even lead to extra missions.
As part of this I remember someone posting an idea for a Outlaw Brotherhood version of the Pilot's Federation with rankings for Pirate, Assassin and Smuggler instead of Combat, Trade and Exploration.
Essentially I agree that being a pirate (whether pve or pvp) should mark you out as always being dodgy and not being welcome in the highest security areas (this should also be major faction specific, I doubt the Imps would care if you've been pirating Fed ships and vice versa). Get too bad a reputation and perhaps even the pirates wouldn't want anything to do with you. You should also only be able to choose being in the Imp. or the Fed. military, not both. Smugglers and Assassins should also be similarly tagged and lead to you getting more scans from the police and even lead to extra missions.
As part of this I remember someone posting an idea for a Outlaw Brotherhood version of the Pilot's Federation with rankings for Pirate, Assassin and Smuggler instead of Combat, Trade and Exploration.
I can't imagine any reason why the system proposed shouldn't be implemented. It makes perfect sense. In fact I always thought it was the way it was because they just hadn't got round to it and the current system was just a placeholder.
..... a plaice holder
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yes the game lacks consequences. for example I cna abuse the war state and do massacre missions for both sides and then end up beign allied with both. This shouldn't be possible, the positive effect on the one faction should be smaller than the negative effect towards the faction your work against. It is basically hard in this game to make someone hate you at all unless you just kill them over and over, but so many negative mission related actions lead to way too low consequences as well. Ed univers efels like a happy place of friendship.
Hey I just murdered 100 of your ships, and oh also hundred of you. Now youc na both love me.
Hey I just murdered 100 of your ships, and oh also hundred of you. Now youc na both love me.
the beauty is lore wise they exist... and have a faction in the game. The Dark Wheel
I am still optimistic that a lot of what the OP wants, actually FD would like too at some point, and i am hoping its just a time thing
Noooo. While piracy certainly needs some love, it is currently much more developed than exploration.
Piracy already has plenty of weapons, interdiction, scanners, limpets, module targeting, black markets, bounties, police response, security levels to make gameplay interesting (YMMV). Piracy also requires some skills and know-how. There are some piracy missions too.
Exploration has a very very good galaxy, but it has very little interesting gameplay. Once you have honked the system, scanned stationary targets and found random objects on the surface, well, nothing happens. There are no skills required, no consequences to gameplay and nothing to do or achieve. (I like flying and driving though.) There are no real exploration missions.
Oh, and mystery solving elements like ruins are not exploration but mystery solving meta-game.
Direct consequences are one thing, but there could also be a fame system for everything. You might become a notorious murderer, pirate, explorer, bounty hunter, mercenary, courier, taxi driver, rare merchant, slave trader etc. Fame could be positive or negative. Fame (reputation) could increase or decrease. Fame could be limited to a power or superpower.
Fame would affect how stations, mission givers and NPCs react and speak to you. If you are notorious enough, some NPCs might know you by name. Mission givers could look up your reputation on-line based on reviews of your clients. Authorities could use their own databases (like they do for bounties now).
Possibly the game could offer a text description how others see you. (So you can read it and smile.)
Fame would affect how stations, mission givers and NPCs react and speak to you. If you are notorious enough, some NPCs might know you by name. Mission givers could look up your reputation on-line based on reviews of your clients. Authorities could use their own databases (like they do for bounties now).
Possibly the game could offer a text description how others see you. (So you can read it and smile.)
Yes, I remember my early hopes for Elite Dangerous, which involved (amongst other things)...
- "Core world" regions that were safe. You would be welcome there, as long as you kept your nose clean. Low profits, but pretty safe. If you started going down the road to criminality, the fancy, rich starports would begin giving you the cold shoulder.
- Outlying regions - rather less safe. You could move outwards to more rough-and-ready areas if you wanted to chase higher profits (or bigger bounty crims), or if you found yourself persona non grata in the core worlds.
- Frontier/anarchy regions - very dangerous. Far from any order or lawful influence. Plentiful raw materials still, but not easy to survive out there.
- "Greyed out" space beyond - unmapped, no jump plotting, needing "explorers" to push the boundaries of known space, survey it, lay down hyperspace routes to expand human star maps, etc.
What we got on release day was far more homogeneous galaxy, without any "law and order" related topology. There wasn't much difference between supposed high and low security systems. Few people even knew about the concept; those who did paid it little thought. Slowly, police responses and interdiction risk started being tied to System Security". It took until the last point-release to even get "System Security" onto the Galaxy Map in a filterable/visible manner.
But... still... no "black marks" against career criminals. No being locked out of High Sec systems due to past mis-deeds. No swing between "Ally of Federation = Adversary of Empire" or vice versa. No "wild frontier" to speak of.
But hey. The galaxy Exists. The game Exists. Sure I'd like to see some stuff differently, but such is life!
And I do think that most of the above horses have well and truly bolted by now.
- "Core world" regions that were safe. You would be welcome there, as long as you kept your nose clean. Low profits, but pretty safe. If you started going down the road to criminality, the fancy, rich starports would begin giving you the cold shoulder.
- Outlying regions - rather less safe. You could move outwards to more rough-and-ready areas if you wanted to chase higher profits (or bigger bounty crims), or if you found yourself persona non grata in the core worlds.
- Frontier/anarchy regions - very dangerous. Far from any order or lawful influence. Plentiful raw materials still, but not easy to survive out there.
- "Greyed out" space beyond - unmapped, no jump plotting, needing "explorers" to push the boundaries of known space, survey it, lay down hyperspace routes to expand human star maps, etc.
What we got on release day was far more homogeneous galaxy, without any "law and order" related topology. There wasn't much difference between supposed high and low security systems. Few people even knew about the concept; those who did paid it little thought. Slowly, police responses and interdiction risk started being tied to System Security". It took until the last point-release to even get "System Security" onto the Galaxy Map in a filterable/visible manner.
But... still... no "black marks" against career criminals. No being locked out of High Sec systems due to past mis-deeds. No swing between "Ally of Federation = Adversary of Empire" or vice versa. No "wild frontier" to speak of.
But hey. The galaxy Exists. The game Exists. Sure I'd like to see some stuff differently, but such is life!
And I do think that most of the above horses have well and truly bolted by now.
There's plenty in the game they could do to alleviate this - for example:
Engineers who will only deal with you if you are a wanted criminal or enemy of the major factions etc.
Certain bases that will only let you dock if you a re a criminal over a certain reputation
ship mods/upgrades only available to enemies of one or more of the major factions etc.
Yes, I remember my early hopes for Elite Dangerous, which involved (amongst other things)...
- "Core world" regions that were safe. You would be welcome there, as long as you kept your nose clean. Low profits, but pretty safe. If you started going down the road to criminality, the fancy, rich starports would begin giving you the cold shoulder.
- Outlying regions - rather less safe. You could move outwards to more rough-and-ready areas if you wanted to chase higher profits (or bigger bounty crims), or if you found yourself persona non grata in the core worlds.
- Frontier/anarchy regions - very dangerous. Far from any order or lawful influence. Plentiful raw materials still, but not easy to survive out there.
- "Greyed out" space beyond - unmapped, no jump plotting, needing "explorers" to push the boundaries of known space, survey it, lay down hyperspace routes to expand human star maps, etc.
What we got on release day was far more homogeneous galaxy, without any "law and order" related topology. There wasn't much difference between supposed high and low security systems. Few people even knew about the concept; those who did paid it little thought. Slowly, police responses and interdiction risk started being tied to System Security". It took until the last point-release to even get "System Security" onto the Galaxy Map in a filterable/visible manner.
But... still... no "black marks" against career criminals. No being locked out of High Sec systems due to past mis-deeds. No swing between "Ally of Federation = Adversary of Empire" or vice versa. No "wild frontier" to speak of.
But hey. The galaxy Exists. The game Exists. Sure I'd like to see some stuff differently, but such is life!
And I do think that most of the above horses have well and truly bolted by now.
yep, back then these forums were a happy postative place. All of the above imo may still come in time.... except for exploration. Sadly, that is one cat which will be very hard to put back in the bag
It IS possible...... one suggestion i made a year or so back would be to borrow heavily from BSG reboot and have it transpire that our current hyper pace tech is based on stolen thargoid technology (from the end of 1st encounters) and them essentially hack our drives renderign them usesless (like the shiny ships in BSG were shut down).
the new drives could be jury rigged where we jump but if it is to an unknown system we take a small amount of damage.... only way to get a clean jump would be to scan the system (possibly create tools to make scanning entire systems more interesting and less time consuming, seeing as we would have to scan them) then return the data back to UC, which would then be made available to all via automated upload to our galmap - possibly updates occur only on docking or scanning a nav beacon.
after such an event the entire bubble would be bought down. the 1st stage would be repairing the nav beacons and gettting them back online... once online anyone could jump to a system with working nav beacon. whilst the playerbase would all be forced to helping get this back online for a few months (there are a lot of systems with nav beacons) it would give FD time to sneak in some stuff into deep space
exploration ships would equip a module to help reduce the damage on jumping to a "new" system (but not toally remove, as explorers need to be encouraged to go back to the bubble to sell their data to UC to open the map for everyone else.
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And I do think that most of the above horses have well and truly bolted by now.
Which would be damn sad.
What's the point of having law enforcement, security rating and different governments if said laws and crimes are not USED.
The most important thing is that it would make for a lot better GAMEPLAY.
- Having to actually LOOK at the route, the systems you pass through and the danger a system could hold.
- Having to bribe stations to allow us to dock
- Having to dodge the law to get to that "safe" semi-legal outpost in an asteroid field while being wanted in a system
- Taking risks as a trader by trying to smuggle goods out of an Anarchy system to a place where they are illegal
- Taking risks as a non-wanted person for trying to get to an Anarchy station to find a contact that can introduce us to a black market dealer
- Having jurisdictions between the big three superpowers and different laws depending on government type
Heck, if they could make actual hyperjumps almost instant with much faster charge up and NO countdown I would love if they could increase the cooldown between jumps so that if we DO go into dangerous territory we cannot just leave within 30 seconds AND interdictions should be more dangerous.
Hmm...
Why not have interdictions put a limitations on our engines? Reduce boost and speed by 50% during the FSD cooldown due to interference after interdiction so that interdiction is actually DANGEROUS?
EDIT: Victim loose 50% speed and boost during cooldown and attackers that loose they get a +100% cooldown timer.
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I agree.
I'd really like FD to up the ante in the game in general and make something of the players status and faction alignment.
One thing I really don't like is this issue of being able to be friendly with all the major factions and have access to everything. There's a real opportunity here to have some different gameplay threads if you change this mechanic or add assets in the game that essentially are only accessible to you if you are an ally with one major faction and no more than neutral with (or an enemy of) the other two. The faction based ships should be managed in this way - it would mean a lot more then and making a choice and living with it is exciting.
It would create a real sense of belonging to that faction and create some much needed in game tension between the factions that actually affects gameplay. It would make it feel cut throat. This approach would also stop any commander maxing out on everything as they only wouldn't be able to access all of it at any one time
I've said this before elsewhere, but imagine some engineers that are strongly tied to a faction this way - you then have a kind of arms race. You'd have to balance it of course so one faction wasn't obviously better than the others, and also that staying neutral/cordial/friendly/allied to all three etc would have some advantages (i.e. you can dock anywhere without issue. Perhaps some ambassador type role?) - but it would make for a real sense of journey driven story.
and add consequences to your decisions....
I'd really like FD to up the ante in the game in general and make something of the players status and faction alignment.
One thing I really don't like is this issue of being able to be friendly with all the major factions and have access to everything. There's a real opportunity here to have some different gameplay threads if you change this mechanic or add assets in the game that essentially are only accessible to you if you are an ally with one major faction and no more than neutral with (or an enemy of) the other two. The faction based ships should be managed in this way - it would mean a lot more then and making a choice and living with it is exciting.
It would create a real sense of belonging to that faction and create some much needed in game tension between the factions that actually affects gameplay. It would make it feel cut throat. This approach would also stop any commander maxing out on everything as they only wouldn't be able to access all of it at any one time
I've said this before elsewhere, but imagine some engineers that are strongly tied to a faction this way - you then have a kind of arms race. You'd have to balance it of course so one faction wasn't obviously better than the others, and also that staying neutral/cordial/friendly/allied to all three etc would have some advantages (i.e. you can dock anywhere without issue. Perhaps some ambassador type role?) - but it would make for a real sense of journey driven story.
and add consequences to your decisions....
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Wanna bet they would make a crappy system like Powerplay?
I just wish they tied PP to the regular reputation system and had the PP factions actual ACTIONS affect relations between the major factions.
- If Senator Patreus use his PRIVATE FLEET to enforce imperial law and CHANGE the ways of a Federation system then there should be WAR between the super powers.
Even worse.
- If the current EMPRESS of the Empire, also a PP faction leader send her private Spanish Inquisition to plant "proof" of corruption in a Federation system then you have a DEFINITE action of hostile takeover by another galactic power.
Those things tend to lead to WAR. And the actions we take as players would FACILITATE those wars because we would make them happen.
And yet, PP sits on the sidelines and is a completely separate entity from the game except that each PP faction loves to murder each other and destabilize systems openly.