Anyone posted the changes for Exploration in 2.3?
- Thread starter Traveller_GG
- Start date
I noticed that Sandro answered one of Ziggy's questions during the PAX livestream, namely: how will exploration data be shared by crewmembers during exploration multicrew?
https://youtu.be/PhsH5U7tz4A?t=2659
Answer: not at all, crewmembers don't get any exploration data during multicrew sessions.
Reason, per Sandro: "unfortunately multicrews can't benefit from exploration data because there is zero effort for them and nothing for them to do".
https://youtu.be/PhsH5U7tz4A?t=2659
Answer: not at all, crewmembers don't get any exploration data during multicrew sessions.
Reason, per Sandro: "unfortunately multicrews can't benefit from exploration data because there is zero effort for them and nothing for them to do".
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*insert sad panda here*
But atleast we can now take a friend instantly to our newest discovery instead of just posting screenshots.
But atleast we can now take a friend instantly to our newest discovery instead of just posting screenshots.
It was an interesting session. What stood out for me were two things: saying that "space legs" would come in the distant future, as it'd be like making a second game, and that expanding multicrew depends on its reception. So they might expand it with more roles and such, but they'll see.
Translation: if it won't be popular, multicrew will go the way of PowerPlay.
On the other hand, the teaser about those organic structures might have been the biggest reveal from PAX for explorers. (Link for those who might have missed it.) Plus Asp Explorers get a raider ship kit too, for some reason? Well, at least it's an improvement to them.
Translation: if it won't be popular, multicrew will go the way of PowerPlay.
On the other hand, the teaser about those organic structures might have been the biggest reveal from PAX for explorers. (Link for those who might have missed it.) Plus Asp Explorers get a raider ship kit too, for some reason? Well, at least it's an improvement to them.
And see, that's what worries me, because the reason why CQC and Power Play aren't popular is not because they aren't good concepts, it's because they are half implemented concepts. With more features and diversity in playstyle allowances both CQC and PP could be much more popular.
Multicrew will be the same way: if it ends up being unpopular it won't be because it's a bad concept, but it will be due to the fact that it's squarely a combat only feature and it has nothing at all for non-combat players. That doesn't mean it should be abandoned if no one uses it, but rather embellished upon in order to actually be useful for a larger percentage of the playerbase.
That acknowledgement feels like a slap in the face. Sure is *unfortunate*. All Fortune's fault, nobody's responsible.
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To be honest, I agree with Sandro. I think the core gameplay of flying a ship has still tremendous opportunities to be fleshed out. I would much prefer a more detailed galaxy and atmospheric landing to any spaceleg activity. Let them make it after we can land on Titan-like worlds and stuff.
I don't get why it is so important in the first place. It is like asking for walking around the racetrack in a racing simulator.
Yeah, to be honest, yesterday's stream was the first time I felt slightly offended by the casual disregard for everything that could make multi-crew interesting for explorers.
On a related note, something during the entire Braben interview and live stream also gave me a distinct feeling of "exploration has gone into a completely different direction than the developers expected, and they don't know what to do with them". The new content - ruins, guardians, thargoids and whatever hasn't been found since the game when live - is quite close to home, and I sometimes wonder if the game is still designed on the assumption that explorers are not able to go as far as we can. As if the original concept of real wear and tear would be a problem for all but the most dedicated expeditions, and baffled developers have hidden a thousand little treasures around the bubble, while the explorers packed their stuff and went to see how far they could get away from it.
Interesting. I'd find rather stupid, to put it bluntly, to output a 400B system galaxy and to expect explorers in a mature MMO, meaning mostly people who invest a lot of time and push things forward, to stick to the bubble.
Not even mentionning that I find the underlying equation 'explorers like riddles' suspicious.
A lot of us, myself included, spent dozens and hundreds of hours canvassing what was at the time thought to be the relevant location of the Formidine Rift, based on a vague 'confirmation' from Drew Wagar. The area covered just 25 million systems or so. That's a bit of a stretch, considering the facts that 1) a year of research was about to be thrown down the drain by an awkward alien spawn that would be solved with trailer material; 2) the 'core' clues, before the UP sound thing, were not in the game but in Drew's novel, Reclamation. That felt offending then, and with this new element, it hasn't changed.
In a word, I still find myself at a loss at to why even bother create such an amazing playground if they're not 1) going to finish or fix it, 2) developping a serious exploration gameplay, as they should have been from the beginning. Might as well output 20,000 systems only for a bubble - a full galaxy seems a bit expensive for a skybox...
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As a player I agree with you.
However, if FDev would put exclusive content far away from the bubble, there would be surely a revolt on dangerous forums. Some people already consider something 10 jumps away as 'far'.
On the other hand, I'm also baffled with stuff like Formidine Rift. We still don't know whether there was anything to find out there before recent updates.
However, if FDev would put exclusive content far away from the bubble, there would be surely a revolt on dangerous forums. Some people already consider something 10 jumps away as 'far'.
On the other hand, I'm also baffled with stuff like Formidine Rift. We still don't know whether there was anything to find out there before recent updates.
The feeling was more like "the interesting things are close". If I recall correctly, the original intend was to make exploration inherently dangerous through wear & tear; requiring underway maintenance, something that could be only done in fleets. That would make putting interesting things close to the bubble reasonable, while stuff like the rift or the Exodus beacons would still be in range for dedicated explorers. The devs seem a little baffled when talking about Distant Suns, Distant Worlds or Colonia; like they didn't expect things like those to happen and decided to roll with it, while the original drafts are still being used to create content based on a design that was never introduced. The most expensive skybox in the world would, in that case, be slowly filled from the bubble outwards.
But it was a vibe, a feeling I got, not something I could really put my finger on, so I don't want to start pointing it at people. Just something I started thinking about, because it would explain the disconnect between the exploration player base and the developers.
I'm still convinced that they just dropped Jaques in some random out of the way system as he 'had' to be in-game somewhere and they never expected him to be found.
I always have this image in my head of the Devs going "Oh ! The bloody explorers have done it again!" when he was stumbled across.
I always have this image in my head of the Devs going "Oh ! The bloody explorers have done it again!" when he was stumbled across.
I'd say that the interesting things are close because Frontier know by now that the majority of their player base doesn't like to travel hours to their destination, wherever that may be, and they would like the interesting stuff to be more accessible to everyone.
Besides, if you travelled, say, ten hours to the end and only found an abandoned settlement there, would you say it was worth that playtime?
The Formidine Rift is something of an exception to this, although I imagine that's because originally there was perhaps some small Easter egg hidden there, but Mr. Wagar has a tendency of overhyping things. One part of the Dynasty expedition CG was added there later, to at least give something to people that had a good chance of being found.
Also, about Jaques: they did expect him to be found eventually, because they left clues to where he might be in the form of corrupted transmissions received in some systems in the bubble. The thing is, they hid these clues so well that the station itself was found before the clues themselves. (My favourite was that he referred to the system as "Proud Rest". Eol Prou RS-T d3-94, after all.) Of course, that happened because they didn't realise it was visible through galaxy map filters.
Oh, and something that came up during the Q&A stuff that's also relevant here: while megaships have a large jump range (they compared it to Jaques, although I guess he supercharged his station's jump), and they'll be able to move them around via server-side updates only (no need for a client patch), they also said that getting lifts via docking at a megaship won't be a thing. So for explorers, any megaships that'll head out will be possible bases of operations, but not instant travel shortcuts.
Besides, if you travelled, say, ten hours to the end and only found an abandoned settlement there, would you say it was worth that playtime?
The Formidine Rift is something of an exception to this, although I imagine that's because originally there was perhaps some small Easter egg hidden there, but Mr. Wagar has a tendency of overhyping things. One part of the Dynasty expedition CG was added there later, to at least give something to people that had a good chance of being found.
Also, about Jaques: they did expect him to be found eventually, because they left clues to where he might be in the form of corrupted transmissions received in some systems in the bubble. The thing is, they hid these clues so well that the station itself was found before the clues themselves. (My favourite was that he referred to the system as "Proud Rest". Eol Prou RS-T d3-94, after all.) Of course, that happened because they didn't realise it was visible through galaxy map filters.
Oh, and something that came up during the Q&A stuff that's also relevant here: while megaships have a large jump range (they compared it to Jaques, although I guess he supercharged his station's jump), and they'll be able to move them around via server-side updates only (no need for a client patch), they also said that getting lifts via docking at a megaship won't be a thing. So for explorers, any megaships that'll head out will be possible bases of operations, but not instant travel shortcuts.
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According to a post in the beta subforum, the exploration payouts were silently changed in either beta 2 or beta 2.01. At the very least, the ELW in TRAPPIST-1 only paid 235k for Speccy. Does anybody have some more info on the current payouts?
Edit: never mind, turns out that it's only that system, payouts elsewhere are the same as before.
Edit: never mind, turns out that it's only that system, payouts elsewhere are the same as before.
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That about sums up the state of the interstellar space flight and exploration mechanics. Straight from the horse's mouth.
I really struggle to understand why so many design decisions are made the way they are. OK, I'm not a game designer and would do infinitely worse so I shouldn't be criticising them. But time & again we see major features made without any obvious attempt to create something that the player base actually wants. PP is the best example - Risk in space isn't necessarily a bad idea but none of the existing CMDRs were asking for it and it screwed up a lot of pre-existing lore. Sure some people liked it, but none of them bought ED in the hope let alone expectation that it would be added. No wonder it failed. CQC is another example. Clearly there are plenty of CMDRs who love combat and want more PvP. But equally clearly the majority of them don't crave a matchmaking system and want to pick and choose their fights.
When it comes to multi-crew, things are somewhat different. It actually is wanted by many. The initial implementation may be lacking, but it is something they can build on. The real issue is probably technical rather than gameplay. What would be relatively trivial to accomplish in a client-server architecture is pretty horrendous in p2p and I'm not surprised the early attempts are so buggy. Hopefully that can be overcome and we'll see significant improvements in gameplay.
When it comes to exploration multi-crew, the whole jumping in & out thing just doesn't work IMO. Yes, it can be done, but from any sensible gameplay perspective it pretty much has to be just sightseeing. eg if you could jump into a ship on the other side of the galaxy, jump back to the bubble & sell data then it would entirely kill the whole first discovered mechanic.
What I would want to see for exploration multi-crew would be for CMDRs to have to sign up before the expedition started. Ideally we would all have access to a second account so the crew members would be able to continue with their normal stuff when this particular expedition wasn't active (ie whenever the 'captain' - which should be transferable - was not online). Or alternatively that it is possible to temporarily jump *out* of the expedition to do other stuff (no silly lore required, just handwavium gameplay mechanic). Either way, it would be a real expedition for multiple crew members who are tied together until the end of it when they all share in the discoveries and credits. If someone decides to leave early then they can but they lose all discoveries & credits the same as if they were to suicide now.
In such a scenario I would consider it worth developing secondary exploration roles. But as long as it is insta-teleport to the far side of the galaxy then I actually hope it remains just sightseeing.
When it comes to multi-crew, things are somewhat different. It actually is wanted by many. The initial implementation may be lacking, but it is something they can build on. The real issue is probably technical rather than gameplay. What would be relatively trivial to accomplish in a client-server architecture is pretty horrendous in p2p and I'm not surprised the early attempts are so buggy. Hopefully that can be overcome and we'll see significant improvements in gameplay.
When it comes to exploration multi-crew, the whole jumping in & out thing just doesn't work IMO. Yes, it can be done, but from any sensible gameplay perspective it pretty much has to be just sightseeing. eg if you could jump into a ship on the other side of the galaxy, jump back to the bubble & sell data then it would entirely kill the whole first discovered mechanic.
What I would want to see for exploration multi-crew would be for CMDRs to have to sign up before the expedition started. Ideally we would all have access to a second account so the crew members would be able to continue with their normal stuff when this particular expedition wasn't active (ie whenever the 'captain' - which should be transferable - was not online). Or alternatively that it is possible to temporarily jump *out* of the expedition to do other stuff (no silly lore required, just handwavium gameplay mechanic). Either way, it would be a real expedition for multiple crew members who are tied together until the end of it when they all share in the discoveries and credits. If someone decides to leave early then they can but they lose all discoveries & credits the same as if they were to suicide now.
In such a scenario I would consider it worth developing secondary exploration roles. But as long as it is insta-teleport to the far side of the galaxy then I actually hope it remains just sightseeing.
Wouldn't the obvious answer to multi-player exploration simply be to have commanders buy ships together? Pool their money and leave together. All exploration bonuses are shared 50/50
That way they could do 'shifts' in the ship or explore together (2 x srv or ship and fighter for more fun).
That way they could do 'shifts' in the ship or explore together (2 x srv or ship and fighter for more fun).
I think the best way exploration 'multicrew' could work is if/when player factions could launch exploration megaships to destinations using waypoints. The megaships could advance at a rate about 1-2000 ly per day (it means a single jump, or weekly one 7-10000ly jump at server update), and we could hop on/off given we have a permit to do so, doing side trips.
But all these stuff are sidedish only. We need a richer, more varied environment, that's all what exploration needs.
But all these stuff are sidedish only. We need a richer, more varied environment, that's all what exploration needs.
Put a small hub bubble every 5kly's , each hub has between 2 and 10 systems with stations , the more hubs you find ,the longer the delivery missions would be.
The whole design intent of multicrew is to provide an instant multiplayer experience where players can easily and quickly hop in and out of any ship flagged for it. Frontier isn't going to lock anyone into anything with stuff like co-ownership of ships and such. It is galactic telepresence afterall, they want it to be a temporary and "free of restriction" game mechanic. Like an instant action mode for Elite Dangerous, that's what multicrew became. Essentially what CQC was supposed to be.
In my opinion, the best way to handle any theoretical future exploration multicrew sessions (with Frontier's above design criteria in mind) is to have every commander on board share exploration data equally, with the single caveat that only the ship owner gets first discovery tags. Any crewmembers in an exploration session would get "neutral" data to sell, being of equal value but rewarding no first discoveries at all. Combat players get equal bounty vouchers but no BGS or reputation effects, so exploration crews would get equal but neutral exploration data without first tags nor reputation gains or BGS impacts. It's the only way that fits in with what Frontier has already established. You need the equal data value in order to make the time worthwhile to the crews (this is the credit reward), but for balance sake you don't want players earning tags or effecting the BGS for "easy" effort actions.
I wouldn't worry about it though, I feel like we won't be seeing any multicrew functionality for explorers anytime soon. Sandro made it clear they don't have any scheduled plans to expand multicrew beyond combat, just some casual thoughts on the possibility of it someday. They scrapped the engineer seat because it wasn't useful for combat players. Combat is their priority, always has been since 1.0, most likely in preparation for a galactic war or alien invasion "coming soon".
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