General / Off-Topic Farage lets rip at 'Eurofanatic' Sturgeon over referendum

[Adept]

The only thing I find surprising about The People's Stockbroker is that anybody in Britain, let alone the rest of the world, is still dense enough to treat a single word that the chortling imbecile utters seriously.

I offer you exhibit A) Geert Wilders, who went from this:

Spoiler

To this, so he could agitate the dumbest 20% of the Dutch population, without looking suspiciously ethnic.

Spoiler

The guy doesn't even let anybody join his party, because he has to be in sole control. His MPs are not actually members of his party, it's pathetic. What a champion of democracy and Western civilization.

I won't even get into Trump, but we also have Le Pen, as brought to you by Russian funding, and crooked as a three Euro note.

There would be tons of examples. Every one of these "strong nationalist leaders" is a pathetic joke. It's sad to see people falling for such 1930ies vaudeville acts.

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Which 1/4?...

Guy is basically being nasty towards his grandmother

 

[Adept]

Then don't expect to betaken seriously. Debate is all about justifying ones opinions on something to other people. If you aren' looking to do that then you aren't looking for debate, you're looking to yell at people through a megaphone.

Indeed. Genar-Hofoen is repeatedly making the claim about the EU being a failing institution, but is offering absolutely nothing to back up the claim. It's like watching Trump tweet about "the failing NY times" or "the unwatchable SNL".

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Well see, I won't be taken seriously here anyway. It is inhabited by extreme left wing bias and an extreme view that the European Union is somehow a good thing.

Hehe... the very idea that the EU is "somehow a good thing" is an extreme view. You couldn't make this up.

Extreme view? Some people are willing to blow themselves up kill civilians, but that's nothing. I hold an extreme view as well! I think the EU is somehow a good thing!

 

[Patrick_68000]

For Theresa May, the UK will be a strong country after the Brexit. She said in front of the parliament. "We will be a strong United Kingdom that will govern itself". Well I think Mrs Sturgeon will have difficulties concerning the independence of Scotland

 

[FuzzySpider]

For Theresa May, the UK will be a strong country after the Brexit. She said in front of the parliament. "We will be a strong United Kingdom that will govern itself". Well I think Mrs Sturgeon will have difficulties concerning the independence of Scotland

Theresa May is a woman who is trying to play poker when everyone can see her cards.

Theresa May is very very wrong about that, and repeating her unfounded beliefs as if they are facts gives nothing to your credibility.

 

[xondk]

Europe is already a zombie on life support.

Is it really though? are there parts of it that aren't great? certainly, is it perfect? absolutely not.

Is it better then most other 'bigger' organisations around, it is. Look around the world, look at the many countries, the big countries, take the US, is it doing better then the EU? I would say no way, but I measure it from the living quality of its citizens, not the profit to companies, where US definitely is doing great. Asia is its own melting pot, I would say Asia is quickly on the rise, and japan is way way up there in how things are going for them, china is doing great for its economy, for its citizens? eh.

So is Europe really as bad as you make it sound? honestly? no...

Does it need improvements? are politicians grabbing everything they can? yes, but again, where isn't this true? US politicians? China politicians? EU politicians? honestly, I think the fact that EU is made of several countries prevents some of the insane corrupt stuff you see other places, does that mean it isn't corrupt? of course not, but isn't it better to work with it and improving it then wanting it to die?

 

[Rob At Work]

Theresa May is a woman who is trying to play poker when everyone can see her cards.

I am not so sure you are right there. Nicola has just played her Ace card - if it fails shes finished.
TM on the other hand has said "no running commentary" the only cards shes played so far, she has been forced to play.
Everyone else seems to be playing their cards but TM IMO.

 

[Boomer Kay]

Is it really though? are there parts of it that aren't great? certainly, is it perfect? absolutely not.

Is it better then most other 'bigger' organisations around, it is. Look around the world, look at the many countries, the big countries, take the US, is it doing better then the EU?

Look at the neighboring countries who are just outside the EU and were in a similar situation as the former eastblock states that joined.
Ukraine?
Moldowa? (one of the poorest countries in europe and the only european contry in the "medium developed" UN list - go there, have a look yourself - it's a 2-3 hr flight)
The Balkans (they had war and are just now rattling sabres again)

I think the Baltics, CZ/SK, Romania and Bulgaria are in a MUCH better position - economically, legislatively.
Greece might have quite some issues and people are suffering - but that's a moskito bite compared to the shark biting your limb off in Ukraine.

The EU might have a manflu and a midlife crisis - at it's borders, it's still the "black death".
Bit hard to realize, if you don't travel around.

 

[Arry]

Is it really though? are there parts of it that aren't great? certainly, is it perfect? absolutely not.

Is it better then most other 'bigger' organisations around, it is. Look around the world, look at the many countries, the big countries, take the US, is it doing better then the EU? I would say no way, but I measure it from the living quality of its citizens, not the profit to companies, where US definitely is doing great. Asia is its own melting pot, I would say Asia is quickly on the rise, and japan is way way up there in how things are going for them, china is doing great for its economy, for its citizens? eh.

So is Europe really as bad as you make it sound? honestly? no...

Does it need improvements? are politicians grabbing everything they can? yes, but again, where isn't this true? US politicians? China politicians? EU politicians? honestly, I think the fact that EU is made of several countries prevents some of the insane corrupt stuff you see other places, does that mean it isn't corrupt? of course not, but isn't it better to work with it and improving it then wanting it to die?

The E.U. needed to change and it failed to do so and now it will reap the whirlwind. If appropriate changes were made a few years ago, things would be a lot different now, but the richer more powerful states, would have had to make sacrifices, for the good of the weaker poorer states and of course, this was out of the question. The E.U. got greedy with the like of Greece, Poland and a few others, because these economies could never compete with the likes of Germany, or be expected to set the same standards of living. However: The greedy among the E.U. states, just looked at the newer members as an extension of their own marketplace. Germany has been the driving force of this greed and has made too many demands on poorer and weaker states. Now it is too late and nationalism will have its way.

 

[Boomer Kay]

The E.U. got greedy with the like of Greece, Poland and a few others, because these economies could never compete with the likes of Germany, or be expected to set the same standards of living.

Meep!
Greece has a huge public service sector. Giant. 3x the adjusted size of that of germany.

"could never have been as productive as Germany" ... well ... yea .. don't really have to, could have adopted a French model, too but at least cut down on useless junk (germany is already overly bureaucratic.. like .. really .. we have to reduce that carp and become efficient and effective) and toddling from one crisis into the next.

That bureaucratic class btw. is so detached from 'the people', there was 2 official languages. One for use with officials and the colloquial Greek. It's like us having to communicate in Latin with our public servants. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katharevousa
The EU and eurokrats are issues for Greece? They had long lasting issues long before. If anything, the EU never put enough pressure on them to resolve them slowly but steadily.

And greece is anything but poor. Some of the richest Europeans are greek - they just hate to share their dinero and thanks to corruption which is a bit higher than the EU average, it's a bit easier to avoid taxes.
Cyprus? Ever heard of that?

The "free economy" in greece and the productivity in greece is not as low as the old stereotypes want you to believe. They're actually the centre of that entire region.

 

[FuzzySpider]

This tweet on the matter made me crack up.

https://twitter.com/TechnicallyRon/status/841263698886946816

Remember the good old days when the UK would be arguing about millenium domes and whether or not John Prescott should have punched that dude in the face? Happy times. Now we're all fighting and the country is splitting up and the factions are really getting into the "we hate 'em" spirit of things. The last days of the UK as it has been for many many years - history is being written ladies and gentlemen.

 

[dannysquid]

We'd be happy to send him over permanently so you can feel better every day. No charge.

Ideally Farage would be at the bottom of the Pacific Ocean. Can we make him Ambassador to Atlantis or something?

 

[NascentChemist]

So the USA is only just a union? Which it wasn't before the second world war, for example. Hawaii isn't really part of the union at all.

On what basis is 200 years set? Was the a deadline when the Union was formed 'if you want to get out, you have to give notice within 200 years?' I'm not convinced it does.

As a American (did I make myself seem important enough?), I'm gigging about the word "union." At least in California, that word has been irrevocably ruined by a few agencies. At least our minimum wage is still >$10/hr.

 

[Adept]

The E.U. needed to change and it failed to do so and now it will reap the whirlwind. If appropriate changes were made a few years ago, things would be a lot different now, but the richer more powerful states, would have had to make sacrifices, for the good of the weaker poorer states and of course, this was out of the question. The E.U. got greedy with the like of Greece, Poland and a few others, because these economies could never compete with the likes of Germany, or be expected to set the same standards of living. However: The greedy among the E.U. states, just looked at the newer members as an extension of their own marketplace. Germany has been the driving force of this greed and has made too many demands on poorer and weaker states. Now it is too late and nationalism will have its way.

I don't think so. Looks like the nationalist wave is already breaking. In Finland our brand of idiots got to be in the governing coalition. They have lost their support, as will almost inevitably happen when populists have to actually govern.

Wilder is a troll who doesn't even want to be in the government, and I'm confident that the French will not actually let Le Pen call the shots. Brexit and Trump have probably shocked a lot of people back to their senses, or at least woken up the moderates and liberals to the fact that they actually have to go and vote.

 

[Patrick_68000]

57% of Scots would vote against the independence, according to a poll in The Times ---- http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/scots-want-to-remain-in-uk-new-poll-reveals-57256ptzs

 

[FuzzySpider]

57% of Scots would vote against the independence, according to a poll in The Times ---- http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/scots-want-to-remain-in-uk-new-poll-reveals-57256ptzs

Extra! Extra! Rupert Murdoch owned publication publishes things Rupert Murdoch wants people to believe!

Patrick demonstrates confirmation bias once again!

Read all about it!

 

[Patrick_68000]

Extra! Extra! Rupert Murdoch owned publication publishes things Rupert Murdoch wants people to believe!

Patrick demonstrates confirmation bias once again!

Read all about it!

I do not read "The Times". I read various French newspapers which give links to the UK newspapers according to the subjects

 

[xondk]

Look at the neighboring countries who are just outside the EU and were in a similar situation as the former eastblock states that joined.
Ukraine?
Moldowa? (one of the poorest countries in europe and the only european contry in the "medium developed" UN list - go there, have a look yourself - it's a 2-3 hr flight)
The Balkans (they had war and are just now rattling sabres again)

I think the Baltics, CZ/SK, Romania and Bulgaria are in a MUCH better position - economically, legislatively.
Greece might have quite some issues and people are suffering - but that's a moskito bite compared to the shark biting your limb off in Ukraine.

The EU might have a manflu and a midlife crisis - at it's borders, it's still the "black death".
Bit hard to realize, if you don't travel around.

The E.U. needed to change and it failed to do so and now it will reap the whirlwind. If appropriate changes were made a few years ago, things would be a lot different now, but the richer more powerful states, would have had to make sacrifices, for the good of the weaker poorer states and of course, this was out of the question. The E.U. got greedy with the like of Greece, Poland and a few others, because these economies could never compete with the likes of Germany, or be expected to set the same standards of living. However: The greedy among the E.U. states, just looked at the newer members as an extension of their own marketplace. Germany has been the driving force of this greed and has made too many demands on poorer and weaker states. Now it is too late and nationalism will have its way.

I do believe I generally stated agreement with both statements such as this, my point is more it is a 'politician' problem, rather then 'EU' problem, that's all really, and yes politicians have abused their power, and hurt smaller countries, but this would happen anyway, the EU does provide advantages, but it just isn't what it could be if people weren't idiots, but again, this is not something new to EU itself, but politics as a whole..So yeah, killing the EU does not mean there would be improvement, that said it doesn't say it wouldn't either, though the it seems to be leaning towards more of a loss without EU then with it, but again, yeah, not perfect in any way, and certainly not what it could be.
But it seems smarter to me to stay within it and try to fix it since you already have the relevant people around you to fix it with, the other countries, going it alone, gives all sorts of issues.

 

[Arry]

I do believe I generally stated agreement with both statements such as this, my point is more it is a 'politician' problem, rather then 'EU' problem, that's all really, and yes politicians have abused their power, and hurt smaller countries, but this would happen anyway, the EU does provide advantages, but it just isn't what it could be if people weren't idiots, but again, this is not something new to EU itself, but politics as a whole..So yeah, killing the EU does not mean there would be improvement, that said it doesn't say it wouldn't either, though the it seems to be leaning towards more of a loss without EU then with it, but again, yeah, not perfect in any way, and certainly not what it could be.
But it seems smarter to me to stay within it and try to fix it since you already have the relevant people around you to fix it with, the other countries, going it alone, gives all sorts of issues.

Oh I agree and voted to remain. Corbin's only sensible words on the subject were to remain and change from within. However: It is too late, too late for Britain, the die has been cast and brexit will happen. It is also too late for the E.U. because the right wing nationalist politicians are going to tear it apart.

 

[Adept]

It is also too late for the E.U. because the right wing nationalist politicians are going to tear it apart.

I bet you're wrong. By when do you expect this "being torn apart" to happen, so we can see who was right?

 

[Arry]

I bet you're wrong. By when do you expect this "being torn apart" to happen, so we can see who was right?

Unless of course: It is too big to fail and we all knows where that will lead.

I think the French election will be the make or break moment. I am no expert, just a profit of doom.

In 5 years it will just be Germany and other countries that want to suck up to Germany.

At the same time, maybe concessions may be made to appease and retain unity.