THE FORMIDINE RIFT MYSTERY (Part 4)

[FilmExile]

Yep. I reckon so

The alternative - that she needed to be in a certain place at a certain time in order to observe something based on pictures drawn in the sky by a bunch of astronomers 1,5000 years previously, mostly based on pictures drawn by a bunch of astrologers 2,000 years before that - is all a bit too mystical for me.

However, all the mythological symbolism is a construct laid over the Rift mystery by human agents - so it's not unreasonable to believe that THEY required Kahina to perform certain 'initiation rituals' in order to be accepted into the group. I think the Gerasian Liquor she received on Earth was their way of saying 'You're in'.

She could have simulated the sky at any time from any where. Perhaps this is not about what was in the sky, but about who else would have been there to see the event. Someone she needed to meet with?

 

[Jaiotu]

If I may, you are making vast assumptions about why she must be in this place and this time. She could have simulated the sky at any time from any where. Perhaps this is not about what was in the sky, but about who else would have been there to see the event. Someone she needed to meet with?

A lot of the reasons why people do things is 'theatre". They aren't doing it because they need to ... they're doing it for the 'audience'.

 

[TwistedHelix]

The importance of earth is that it is the center of the galactic coordinate system.

Not quite. The Galactic coordinate system is heliocentric (the center is the sun).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celestial_coordinate_system

It should be understood that in order to relate Equatorial, Ecliptic and Galactic Coordinate systems ... transformations need to be applied.

 

[Jorki Rasalas]

Drew has implicitly confirmed that all beacons have been found - since he asked for details of who found them and the corresponding bases.

The logs say the expeditions were dropping beacons at ELW. None of those have been found.
I think your logic is flawed. Just because Drew asked who found the rally point beacons doesn't imply anything about any other possible beacons.

- - - Updated - - -

I think everyone is missing my point.

The position of the planets in the Solar System are entirely wrong. They are neither in the correct position relative to 2017 or 3303. At noon local time on Earth you are staring up into the night sky. I'm not saying that Kahina needed to go to Earth to try and point out some astronomical sight that would be observable from Cambridge on the equinox. I'm postulating that she went there to draw attention to the fact that the vernal equinox on our Calendar does not correspond to the vernal equinox relative to Earth's position in space relative to the Sun.

It is quite possible that the Ricardo Bentonio exploration community goal was partially designed to further draw attention to the fact that our in-game calendar is way off. Off by 10 years. The Calendar dates in Elite: Dangerous correspond to 3313. All of the dates fall on the correct day of the week for 3313 and 3312 was a leap year ... just like last year. I haven't verified if the current positions of the planets in Elite Dangerous line up correctly with 3313 yet.

I know, I know. This is a lot of tin foil. After the recent Ricardo Bentonio Galnet article about aliens walking among us I've started looking back at some of the previous stuff from Bentonio (excluding the stuff that I playfully submitted) with a little less skepticism.

My thinking: If we can find what day the position of the planets in the Sol system actually corresponds to and then rewind to Kahina's visit to Sol then maybe there is some historical event that occurred on that date that will shed some kind of clue.

A long shot by at least a parsec I'm sure.

Bit too tinfoily for my liking. 10 years disappeared from the calendar with nobody noticing? Can't see any possible relationship to TOW's message. Sounds like an FD bug- tried raising a bug report & seeing what the response is?

 

[Jaiotu]

Not quite. The Galactic coordinate system is heliocentric (the center is the sun).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celestial_coordinate_system

It should be understood that in order to relate Equatorial, Ecliptic and Galactic Coordinate systems ... transformations need to be applied.

I'm sure that simulacrae meant the equatorial coordinate system. Elite: Dangerous uses α + δ + distance to plot the location of real-world astronomical objects in the galaxy map.

 

[Cmdr-Wotherspoon]

Re Kahinas trip to Earth

I hadn't realised there was special significance to these visits to Cambridge. I'd thought Drew was referring obliquely to his visits to FD to discuss further development of the lore and possible book deals.

Reading all your thoughts, it's more than likely I was wrong.

 

[Jaiotu]

The logs say the expeditions were dropping beacons at ELW. None of those have been found.
I think your logic is flawed. Just because Drew asked who found the rally point beacons doesn't imply anything about any other possible beacons.

Just because something gets mentioned in a line of text doesn't mean that it exists in game. Take the Tionisla Graveyard. It has been referenced in Galnet but does not exist ... yet. I have a sneaking suspicion that the beacons around ELWs either don't exist or simply haven't been added yet.

Bit too tinfoily for my liking. 10 years disappeared from the calendar with nobody noticing? Can't see any possible relationship to TOW's message. Sounds like an FD bug- tried raising a bug report & seeing what the response is?

I know, right? The problem with the Elite: Dangerous calendar is one of the first things I ever posted on these forums. I bug reported it before the game went into Gamma release. It was never addressed.

 

[Jorki Rasalas]

Re Kahinas trip to Earth

The importance of earth is that it is the center of the galactic coordinate system. The importance of the Vernal Equinox (March 20th) is that that is when the coordinates are measured.

Spoiler

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/de/Ra_and_dec_rectangular.png see Wikipedia Equatorial Coordinates

All the "enlightening" remarks seemed to indicate a supernova. the quote used by Salome "I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night" is from a poem that talks about Tycho Brahe. Tycho was famed in part for his work on a Supernova (SN1572). Which coincidentally is located in Cassiopeia (but not on ED star charts).

this was as far as i got:

Spoiler

http://i.imgur.com/ELBh0Ds.png

ya it didn't go well... but haven't been keeping up on this. Whether it was Tycho's star or not... Maybe now there are more definite clues to point at a second alignment? ... a sort of x marks the spot in the stars ?

The poem is about a dying astronomer preparing to meet Tycho and bring him up to date with the "later science". If this is a Drew clue to FRift, then we should be considering who this dying astronomer and his pupil are, what is the German College and what theory of this astronomer did (I think from the poem) they scorn?
One line from the poem makes me ponder "Lacking only certain data for your adding, as is meet", so was Kahina looking for some missing data to complete this theory & that started her on the quest? Something to do with the outer gas giants perhaps?

Edit: googling I found this site https://apersonfromporlock.wordpress.com/2010/07/20/all-my-theory-complete/ & the dying astronomer might have been intended to represent Johannes Kepler, who worked with Brahe. At the time only six planets were known. Kepler theorised that their orbits were geometrically related in 3D but the data did not fit, especially for Jupiter (http://galileoandeinstein.physics.virginia.edu/1995/lectures/kepler.html). Kepler's school at Graz was closed down along with other schools because they were Lutheran (which maybe fits the 'German Colleges'). Kepler also had poor eyesight due to childhood disease so maybe that also fits the poem. Once Kepler had got hold of Tycho's data he worked on the orbit of Mars (http://galileoandeinstein.physics.virginia.edu/1995/lectures/morekepl.html). Can't find anything on who might have been Kepler's assistant.

Tinfoil moment- Mars & Jupiter both figure in relation to Kepler. In ED the alien relic was found on Mars, so perhaps Kahina was looking for & found something of alien origin at Jupiter on her tour of the Gas giants, which then set her off on her quest?

 

[TwistedHelix]

When it comes to the precession of the equinoxes (which is a ~ 25,920 year cycle), I guess 10 years is not a huge margin of error.

 

[Harley Quinn]

There is also the London Treaty, which was an arms limitation agreement on how many capital ships the superpowers would have, and which Patreus later said he would disregard. Tantalum anyone?

I'll lay you even money that the treaty was broken a long time ago at some deep range bases and one of the reasons P has withdrawn from the accords is because they are likely to be caught on that point soon.

 

[Jaiotu]

The poem is about a dying astronomer preparing to meet Tycho and bring him up to date with the "later science". If this is a Drew clue to FRift, then we should be considering who this dying astronomer and his pupil are, what is the German College and what theory of this astronomer did (I think from the poem) they scorn?
One line from the poem makes me ponder "Lacking only certain data for your adding, as is meet", so was Kahina looking for some missing data to complete this theory & that started her on the quest? Something to do with the outer gas giants perhaps?

Identifying the old astronomer of the poem and his pupil may not be possible. From the poem:

I have sown, like Tycho Brahe, that a greater man may reap;
But if none should do my reaping, ’twill disturb me in my sleep
So be careful and be faithful, though, like me, you leave no name;
See, my boy, that nothing turn you to the mere pursuit of fame

 

[Jorki Rasalas]

Identifying the old astronomer of the poem and his pupil may not be possible. From the poem:

I have sown, like Tycho Brahe, that a greater man may reap;
But if none should do my reaping, ’twill disturb me in my sleep
So be careful and be faithful, though, like me, you leave no name;
See, my boy, that nothing turn you to the mere pursuit of fame

I've added to my op above, see my musings -may be Johannes Kepler, but yes could be anonymous in which case my hypothesis fails (though on his deathbed would he have considered himself famous?)

 

[Han_Zen]

She could have simulated the sky at any time from any where. Perhaps this is not about what was in the sky, but about who else would have been there to see the event. Someone she needed to meet with?

The only reason to oberve from earth at a specific time is if there is a structure there, that is buildt to point at something in the sky.

That could be like Stonehenge or just two sticks in back yard. Not much help really.

Some sort of secret event seem more likely.

Not that it can't be both, at the same time.

 

[Jaiotu]

I've added to my op above, see my musings -may be Johannes Kepler, but yes could be anonymous in which case my hypothesis fails (though on his deathbed would he have considered himself famous?)

Could be Kepler. Maybe the "pupil" is Issac Newton. Newton drew on Kepler's work to produce his own Principia Mathematica. Since we are dealing with poetry the conversation between teacher and student need not be literal.

 

[Jorki Rasalas]

Could be Kepler. Maybe the "pupil" is Issac Newton. Newton drew on Kepler's work to produce his own Principia Mathematica. Since we are dealing with poetry the conversation between teacher and student need not be literal.

Agreed, though since Kepler expressed thoughts on gravity it might be Newton or Einstein. Either way, if this is a Drew clue I'm thinking its pointing us at Jupiter, but since in his words Kahina "visited the outer gas giants" it might equally be Saturn or Neptune. Triton is the obvious lead as its permit locked, but until we can unlock it then that's a dead end (has anybody recently {since 2.2} tried running fed missions/bounty hunting in Sol to see if a Triton permit unlock appears?), but there are several moons & stations for those three planets that might be implied.

Edit: There is something about the phrasing of the posts about her Sol tour that just seem odd, but I can't figure anything from that. There is also the repeated post...

Edit2: apparently Carl Sagan wrote in Cosmos about Brahe, Kepler et al, but I 'm afraid I never read it. My son borrowed my DVD box set of it before I watched it & I don't think I got that back.

 

[Jaiotu]

Agreed, though since Kepler expressed thoughts on gravity it might be Newton or Einstein. Either way, if this is a Drew clue I'm thinking its pointing us at Jupiter, but since in his words Kahina "visited the outer gas giants" it might equally be Saturn or Neptune. Triton is the obvious lead as its permit locked, but until we can unlock it then that's a dead end (has anybody recently {since 2.2} tried running fed missions/bounty hunting in Sol to see if a Triton permit unlock appears?), but there are several moons & stations for those three planets that might be implied.

I am allied with every faction in Sol. I haven't seen a Triton permit.

Edit: There is something about the phrasing of the posts about her Sol tour that just seem odd, but I can't figure anything from that. There is also the repeated post...

I believe the duplicate was confirmed to be nothing more than a clerical error.

Edit2: apparently Carl Sagan wrote in Cosmos about Brahe, Kepler et al, but I 'm afraid I never read it. My son borrowed my DVD box set of it before I watched it & I don't think I got that back.

There was an episode that talked about Kepler and Brahe. Youtube is our friend:

[video=youtube;gRvToaTjTvo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRvToaTjTvo[/video]

 

[Jorki Rasalas]

Re Kahinas trip to Earth

The importance of earth is that it is the center of the galactic coordinate system. The importance of the Vernal Equinox (March 20th) is that that is when the coordinates are measured.

Spoiler

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/de/Ra_and_dec_rectangular.png see Wikipedia Equatorial Coordinates

All the "enlightening" remarks seemed to indicate a supernova. the quote used by Salome "I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night" is from a poem that talks about Tycho Brahe. Tycho was famed in part for his work on a Supernova (SN1572). Which coincidentally is located in Cassiopeia (but not on ED star charts).

this was as far as i got:

Spoiler

http://i.imgur.com/ELBh0Ds.png

ya it didn't go well... but haven't been keeping up on this. Whether it was Tycho's star or not... Maybe now there are more definite clues to point at a second alignment? ... a sort of x marks the spot in the stars ?

Just going back along this hypothesis trail; where/when did Salome use that quote ("I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night")? - I can't find it.

Edit: ah, found it- speech from Beagle Point https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/239212-The-Formidine-Rift-Part-2?p=3754105&viewfull=1#post3754105

 

[Saool]

I have to say I took her repeated comments about not being late to just mean she had a lot of meetings and audiences during the trip, and did not want to give a bad impression by being late.

 

[Darth_Angelus]

I just loaded up First Encounters and had a look at the Sol system. Triton was uninhabited in 3250, so whatever the permit lock is for, it's recent.

 

[Jaiotu]

I have to say I took her repeated comments about not being late to just mean she had a lot of meetings and audiences during the trip, and did not want to give a bad impression by being late.

It always have me a Mad Hatter/Lewis Carroll vibe.