Apologies. I initially was talking about playing style, you jumped in and were talking about time playing. Didn't catch the change of subject. I still stand by my original statement that unless you play the way FD intends (style) you won't get the materials necessary to utilize the Engineers.
Engineers Engineers RNG is stupid
- Thread starter Kharadrass
- Start date
Apologies. I initially was talking about playing style, you jumped in and were talking about time playing. Didn't catch the change of subject. I still stand by my original statement that unless you play the way FD intends (style) you won't get the materials necessary to utilize the Engineers.
"Here's your upgrade."
"But where's my special effect?"
"What special effect?"
"I'm buying a special effect from you right NOW."
"Oh that special effect, here you go, I now like you less, please come again."
I would gladly give up all my modified FSD's, and thrusters for: apt-get purge engineers
"But where's my special effect?"
"What special effect?"
"I'm buying a special effect from you right NOW."
"Oh that special effect, here you go, I now like you less, please come again."
I would gladly give up all my modified FSD's, and thrusters for: apt-get purge engineers
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Blackcompany
Banned
So...Which of your statements is the bald faced lie?
The one wherein you claim everything is available by just playing...Or the opposite one?
to the op:
ever heard of "West Coast Customs" or similar things?
given the results they produce, engineers here work pretty reliable and predictable.
if you don't believe it, google for "Firefall Bus"
ever heard of "West Coast Customs" or similar things?
given the results they produce, engineers here work pretty reliable and predictable.
if you don't believe it, google for "Firefall Bus"
There's no contradiction. You can get everything just by playing. If you want everything the game has to offer you touch all aspects of it. You can hide in one corner of the game if you like, just don't expect to get everything doing that. But it's your choice if you want to do that.
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I have a car. Stock setup. Parameters I monitor are: mass, acceleration, max speed and fuel consumption. Then I decide to install turbo (aka engineer upgrade).
- mass goes up (negative effect)
- acceleration goes up (positive effect)
- max speed goes up (positive effect)
- fuel consumption goes up (negative effect)
Taking mass and fuel consumption under consideration I paid for negative upgrade.
Above situation is perfectly fine as it is *MY* duty to calculate if achieved pros outweigh cons. That part of engineering is ok. What is not ok is how RNG will screw final result. If I go with my car for a tunning *I KNOW* beforehand pros and cons. If I stiffen my suspension I'll get more handling (positive) but reduced travel comfort (negative). I can foresee the final results.
For me engineering should be like this:
example FSD range upgrade (+range; +fuel consumption). RNG decides *ONLY* how big values you get. So being lucky you may get +30% range with +5% more fuel consumption. When unlucky you may get opposite. But at least you know what you get. This way both sides are happy - we somewhat know what we can expect, devs still have their RNG so we can still whine about bad rolls.
- mass goes up (negative effect)
- acceleration goes up (positive effect)
- max speed goes up (positive effect)
- fuel consumption goes up (negative effect)
Taking mass and fuel consumption under consideration I paid for negative upgrade.
Above situation is perfectly fine as it is *MY* duty to calculate if achieved pros outweigh cons. That part of engineering is ok. What is not ok is how RNG will screw final result. If I go with my car for a tunning *I KNOW* beforehand pros and cons. If I stiffen my suspension I'll get more handling (positive) but reduced travel comfort (negative). I can foresee the final results.
For me engineering should be like this:
example FSD range upgrade (+range; +fuel consumption). RNG decides *ONLY* how big values you get. So being lucky you may get +30% range with +5% more fuel consumption. When unlucky you may get opposite. But at least you know what you get. This way both sides are happy - we somewhat know what we can expect, devs still have their RNG so we can still whine about bad rolls.
Blackcompany
Banned
So NOW you add a qualifier. Sorry, honesty doesn't work that way.
What happened to "play your way" to boot? FDev just tossed that too I guess. Out the same window as quality I reckon.
No qualifier was added. I said you can get everything by playing and you can. You can also play and not get everything. It's your choice. "Playing your way" is choosing how you want to play, including in a terrible way that gets you nowhere.
I have to say I'm frustrated with it too :-(
When you PAY an engineer to make something better, the result shouldn't be random?
Blackcompany
Banned
Except...Play your way was a major selling point. For a lot of people.
Small wonder so many have left.
Agreed. It's a garbage system. Frontier should be embarrassed. Honestly, they should be. Copy pasted system from every fantasy MMO ever. And they still managed to make it worse.
Yeah, that's why I play games- because I want to have fun, not realism.
By the way, in regards to grinding: I know grinding jobs. I had them for a long time. Work all day, still not enough steaks in the fridge.
Then miraculously I got a proper job and now I enjoy work and get money thrown after it. Heck, my job pays for food, accomodation, car.. if this were in a game people would run nuts and complain about their immersion.
RNG needs to go.
same for missions. i need to be able to get the exact mission i want to (same destination, same type) 20 times in a row without any RNG.
its bad, it prevents me from reaching boring endgame fast enough, so i can start complaining about missing endgame more on the forums.
asteroid mining - why are the asteroids not color coded. i just want those diamonds, not all the other crap.
piracy - why i am not offered each type of target everytime so i can cherry pick the ones that fit my mood the best to steal their cargo
i am DEAD serious
same for missions. i need to be able to get the exact mission i want to (same destination, same type) 20 times in a row without any RNG.
its bad, it prevents me from reaching boring endgame fast enough, so i can start complaining about missing endgame more on the forums.
asteroid mining - why are the asteroids not color coded. i just want those diamonds, not all the other crap.
piracy - why i am not offered each type of target everytime so i can cherry pick the ones that fit my mood the best to steal their cargo
i am DEAD serious
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RNG has it's place but not in RNGineers. When you've already been subjected to the problems that RNG causes while getting the materials, the last thing you want is to have all that time wasted in a few seconds by yet another round of RNG.RNG needs to go.
same for missions. i need to be able to get the exact mission i want to (same destination, same type) 20 times in a row without any RNG.
its bad, it prevents me from reaching boring endgame fast enough, so i can start complaining about missing endgame more on the forums.
asteroid mining - why are the asteroids not color coded. i just want those diamonds, not all the other crap.
piracy - why i am not offered each type of target everytime so i can cherry pick the ones that fit my mood the best to steal their cargo
i am DEAD serious
You lucky @@@@@@@@@ , when I was young we did not even have a RNG....
Cheers Cmdr's
Cheers Cmdr's
i have played games with no-rng crafting
its DEAD boring - you can craft the FotM stuff without any effort and then there is nothing left to do. even if the FotM build changes due to a patch, you just visit your crafter and create the perfect new build.
and without the RNG, you could even say, its not crafting anymore, its just another form of npc shop for specialised equipment.
for me, the anoying part of crafting in E : D is actually, that its bound to crafting stations spread across the bubble.
I agree that there shouls be an element of randomness, after all these Engineers are presumably dealing with tweaking things at a quantum level, rather than slapping a lump of Arsenic into your delicate FSD (although is that is tha case, why do they need Arsenic for a Grade 5 upgrade?). However the "go hunt for random , take it to a distant place and spin the wheel of fortune" nature of the Endineers kind of makes a mockery of the term "Engineer".
If they were truly Engineers, then they should be able to guarantee that some things came out the same every time, or if they got you a good bonus to a laser (for example) then you would think they could replicate that bonus to the rest of your lasers without having to re-spin the wheel of fortune.
If they keep the random nature, then really they should be called Tinkerers rather than Engineers.
If they were truly Engineers, then they should be able to guarantee that some things came out the same every time, or if they got you a good bonus to a laser (for example) then you would think they could replicate that bonus to the rest of your lasers without having to re-spin the wheel of fortune.
If they keep the random nature, then really they should be called Tinkerers rather than Engineers.
You can keep a random element but keep the main result consistent. As it has been suggested, sliders would create a consistent result with the other sliders moving down to create the negative effects as you slide the main one up to get the best result. There could still be a random "unexpected result" that gives a small bonus but only in as far as reducing one of the negative effects and only after the sliders are fixed so you have no more control over them. You can keep rolling as much as you like to see if the unexpected result will give you a decent bonus or you can accept what you get. However, the main slider gives you exactly what you want and no more.
Ie: You go to a garage to have your cars computer tweaked for more BHP. The mechanic does it for you and tells you it's up as far as it can go but it may affect your traction and it's going to slurp fuel faster. A couple of tests later, he gives you the good news that you got the max BHP out of it okay and it's actually using a little less fuel than he expected it to. There's a little random bonus.
This isn't entirely no RNG crafting but it is allowing people to have full control over the primary effects. You want the max positive, you have to accept the negatives but you can slide the primary effect down a touch to decrease the negative effects to allow for your ships tolerance. No good having something that generates a lot of heat if heat is already a problem for you.
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Well, it isn't Frontier's fault that many do not seem to grasp what "Play your way" actually means, it doesn't mean you can do 'anything you want', because obviously you can't make a game like that, it means you can do whatever is possible inside the game with no restrictions, but it also doesn't mean there aren't consequences.
Frontier isn't to blame for that, other games have entirely ruined the concept. It only means, Here's our game, do what you CAN do in it, we won't stop you.
You say "Small wonder so many have left" but where are you getting that number? and I hope you realise but games have people leaving, good bad or anything else, all the time?
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then i don't understand the whole discussion.
each engineer offers you a whide set of blueprints to change your stuff to be better
they all come with some non-random downsides
sometimes there are extra positives and negatives, but overall, a grade 5 crafting result is ALWAYS better then a stock module.
As far as this discussion here goes, its whining about the inability to buy a 100% perfect result.