Opinion - We're Losing our Way.

[Muetdhiver]

Credits are practically given away now. It used to take a lot longer to earn your cash, and the game was better off for it.

The amount of time it took me to get a python nevermind an anaconda was embarassing by todays standards.

And was that really a good thing ? I mean putting the content (read ships as extrinsic reward) behind the repetition of a
unchallenging gameloop (AB trading and rare trading) is very low on the scale of quality gameplay IMO.

It's just that the "grind" was acting as a speedo hiding away the emabarassingly tiny gameplay of the game at launch.
With the grind gone/much reduced, the barebone gameplay stand naked for all to see.

 

[Vorxian]

My own personal story is a bit controversial, it's a difficult one. I found it quite hard to stomach at the start to try to find the 60m + fittings for a python. Anaconda for me was out of bounds.. No way I could afford one. I was happy sticking to the Python, but naturally I felt a bit ripped off doing a mission for 17,000 credits! How many of them it would take to get a python?

I tried hard, and I gave up.. I managed to get to an ASP, and decided to try exploring than grind the cash. It was ok, and the novelty lasted long enough for me to endure a 100k LY trip back to what we know as 'the bubble'. I sat with a viper for a long time, and still yearned the Python. About this time that Seeking Luxury bonanza happened. I stacked up my ASP for cargo, shieldless, then hit the luxury circus. Upgraded to a Type 6, then 7, then 9... each time gaining a more profitable 2.5 minute luxury run. I just did this until they 'fixed it'. I learned a valuable lesson. MILK THE COW (whilst it lasts). I did it again and again, did mission stacking, skimmer facepalming, did the whole king empire grind at shu babasi, did sothis, did everything that milked the proverbial cow. Money isn't an issue now (obviously)28b+ credits... yet, I still find grind walls.. in things I want to achieve. The latest being engineers, steam is not applying pressure to the cylinders! Nothing seems to make me happy (YET). I guess I crave being able to apply my own creativity, and my own immersion in this most fantastic sandbox, I want to grab my cutter, land on a beautiful earth like planet in the galaxy fringes, with a crew of real life friends, and work as a crew to survive. Space is large, empty, beautiful, and i'm missing being able to do it with my friends. I'm missing that juicy meat on the bone, I have all the resources in the world, yet, still feel like I'm stuck in a desert with an empty water bottle, slowly running out of time.

Devs - The game needs to return to its roots. Less is more. Don't give into the howling and impatient masses. Make them work for what they get and anyone who complains about it reinforces you made the right decision. They might even learn a valuable life lesson. Lord knows, many of them need it.

I agree that less is more, like a great restaurant menu, less is more IF what you get is high quality, fulfilling, pleasing, and you ache to come back for more to try other high quality, fulfilling and pleasing items from the rest of the menu.

I personally cannot wait to have further items added to the game / menu that really connect me with what a sand box is all about. Just do what you want, here are some high quality tools, make what you will, build what you will, play how you will. I miss the feeling of being new to ED. I agree 100% in the OP opener, if I could erase my memory of ED and experience those first several hours again.. ohhhh yes oh boy. It makes me stick around for that ED update that opens the fun and immersive floodgate for me.

Like being stuck in the desert, with an empty water bottle, all the positivity in the world, and all the optimism in the world can only keep you going as long as your body can go without H2o. I'm hanging on guys, I'm hanging on.

 

[yowl]

I suspect somewhere in FD theres a graph of sales of the game and addons, against ease of getting credits and this is probably the driving factor.

 

[Cobra1984]

I suspect somewhere in FD theres a graph of sales of the game and addons, against ease of getting credits and this is probably the driving factor.

The EASE with which credits are earned has not changed, the TIME it takes to earn them has.

That's the issue.

It's designed from the ground up as time vs reward, not risk vs reward.

 

[Chrizaim]

I couldn't read all that. But the early days of learning the ropes should remain core to the game.

Running scared from a bug ship and what you might lose if you die, is one of the best parts of elite in the early days.

 

[Dbrn47]

People crying about how good the old days of 1.0 were need to watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLzW0dl87JY

This was a month after Elite originally released.

THINGS WEREN'T AMAZING BACK THEN GUYS

Oh man, that's good stuff. I wish I knew about him before. [haha]

 

[Space Cowboy]

Today, money is so easy to make that people are in Anacondas in a week, which is frakking ridiculous IMHO.

Your hyperbole is so immense that it could contain a detailed simulation of the Milky Way. I've played this game for over 2 years and I'm still nowhere close to affording an anaconda. I'd have to buy a catheter before I could earn an anaconda.

Don't give into the howling and impatient masses. Make them work for what they get and anyone who complains about it reinforces you made the right decision. They might even learn a valuable life lesson. Lord knows, many of them need it.

Here's a valuable life lesson for a lot of people on these forums: Mind your own business and stop obsessing about how "easy" other people have it. Play your own game. Live your own life. Stop trying to micromanage everyone else's experience.

 

[CMDR Adelind]

I think Cobra1984 wins the thread. Clearly identified the issue and defined it.

Now we just have to hope Fdev forgets about this 'design by accretion' fad that so many developers are going through right now. It's like those procedural generation days all over again. Popular design philosophies not tempered by actual development until it's far too late.

Oh well. Star Citizen or whatever may be painfully generic, but at least it looks like there's stuff to do in it that isn't a painful grind.

- - - Updated - - -

Your hyperbole is so immense that it could contain a detailed simulation of the Milky Way. I've played this game for over 2 years and I'm still nowhere close to affording an anaconda. I'd have to buy a catheter before I could earn an anaconda.



Here's a valuable life lesson for a lot of people on these forums: Mind your own business and stop obsessing about how "easy" other people have it. Play your own game. Live your own life. Stop trying to micromanage everyone else's experience.

I got my conda in one day. It's not hyperbole.

 

[Dbrn47]

I got my conda in one day. It's not hyperbole.

Took me almost 2 years, but then again, I did a lot of screwing off and taking breaks from the game... A lot of taking breaks... [haha]

 

[Andrej]

I'm not going to address specific issues as there are more than enough threads on the various subjects already.

I'm going to talk about the 'feel' of the game. I began Elite just after release of v1.0. On the first day, the learning curve was steep and the challenge of just getting off the launch pad with mouse and keyboard was daunting. I took several dozen trips into Settings to get my key binds just right. I didn't go into supercruise for an hour, as I wanted to feel comfortable flying the ship. I truly felt challenged and the reward of getting that little Sidey do my bidding was incredible.

My first mission was a Black Box recovery for 17K which involved a series of embarrassing overshoots into a USS as I learned throttle control. The 7 second rule being unknown to me at the time. I persevered through that, the cargo scooping and return to the station. 2.5 hours to launch off the pad, recover a Black Box and return. And it was magnificent. The next night, I did more missions and slowly accumulated more money. Within a week, I had enough to grab a C-rated Eagle and RES became my hunting grounds. When I got my first Cobra, I was like Leo DeCaprio on the bow of the Titanic. King of the World.

Two years later, the game has changed dramatically. First, massive kudos to DB and his team for maintaining the central vision. If you watch the KS videos and hear DB talking about the game and it's future, then see what we have today, you see very little is different. That isn't the issue. The challenge in Elite: Dangerous is slowly disappearing. When I first began, I was nervous as I had one, maybe two rebuys covered. I had to be careful, keep my eyes open and think about what I needed to do. I died, many times. However, I was able to learn from the experiences and move on. I made more than I lost, and incrementally I acquired more assets and ships. From the Cobra, I got a T-7 and traded my way into an AspX over several weeks of play.

Today, money is so easy to make that people are in Anacondas in a week, which is frakking ridiculous IMHO. There's no suspense anymore. People have fifty rebuys covered in the bank and so they no longer have any concerns about dying. Indeed, they become cavalier and start doing stupid things as a result. There's no more incentive to learn how to do things right, the element of danger is grossly reduced. Why is this?

Frontier is giving in to vocal players who feel making more money makes for a better game. People who have no patience, no willingness to work toward a goal, no discipline and frankly, are in the wrong game. Since v1.0 rewards have gone up by a factor of 100 and people are still moaning it isn't enough. Giving players more money just turns this game into another mindless arcade shooter. And I hate to be the one to break it to you, but this will not shut up the moaners. They won't be happy until they get HALO in space ships and then they'll still trash the game because of it. They will never be happy and compromising with them will always be a losing proposition for you.

New players will now make millions, get into ships they don't know how to fly, die and blame the game. They will never take personal responsibility, so Elite will always be at fault. You will never win giving in to that type of player.

Devs - The game needs to return to its roots. Less is more. Don't give into the howling and impatient masses. Make them work for what they get and anyone who complains about it reinforces you made the right decision. They might even learn a valuable life lesson. Lord knows, many of them need it.

It was be a long time ago, but if my memory serve me correctly, Anaconda was costing about 8 mil when i start playing. So yeah, 17K was meaning something at that days, but universe has changed.

 

[crushdepth]

And was that really a good thing ? I mean putting the content (read ships as extrinsic reward) behind the repetition of a
unchallenging gameloop (AB trading and rare trading) is very low on the scale of quality gameplay IMO.

It's just that the "grind" was acting as a speedo hiding away the emabarassingly tiny gameplay of the game at launch.
With the grind gone/much reduced, the barebone gameplay stand naked for all to see.

Well, I don't like to see every secind player in a top of the line ship. Those should be rare beasts and aspirations IMHO. The current situation is like Ferrari stealing 80% of Toyota's market share for peasant wagons.

 

[m0rl0ck]

Speak for yourself. While I do have both the Python and the FDL (and a super cheap fuel ratting Asp x), I don't have anywhere near 50 rebuys. I have...5 rebuys for either one (not counting the asp here). I haven't made anywhere near a billion credits even after having this game for OVER A YEAR. My total assets right now, isn't even 1/4 of a billion credits. And that is including spending on rebuys, repairs, fuel, and munitions. I had to work for my measly three ships.

Best three ships in the game imo Those are the ships i own, got disgusted with the anaconda and traded up to a python, fdl and aspx.

 

[Itaki]

Here's a valuable life lesson for a lot of people on these forums: Mind your own business and stop obsessing about how "easy" other people have it. Play your own game. Live your own life. Stop trying to micromanage everyone else's experience.

^^ This.

 

[Kolato]

I don't disagree, exploration has become so much easier because of engineers and neutron highways i have to ask what the point is sometimes. Why should i spend lots of time doing it the old proper way when literally anyone can do the same much quicker with the neutron highway?

 

[Dbrn47]

I don't disagree, exploration has become so much easier because of engineers and neutron highways i have to ask what the point is sometimes. Why should i spend lots of time doing it the old proper way when literally anyone can do the same much quicker with the neutron highway?

You know, if they improved the career it really wouldn't matter all that much.

 

[Skyjack]

tbh i only played 1.0 and had a long hiatus to 2.2 - imo it's better now.

the only thing that has become markedly worse is the World of Elitecraft path leading to 'pvp gear' and 'pve gear' division and the gap approaching infinity, garnished with a halfhearted stab at MMO trinity, healing lasers and all.

other than that i note lots of new mechanics (PP, SQC) where the problem isn't that they're unnecessary or bad - but that they're unintegrated with the main game and are effectively standalone minigames.

and of course there is the question of faction choice/loyalty rewards and meaningful consequences - which was as much there in 1.0 than it is now.

So all considered - rose-tinted glasses only make sense as a set with a cane and a bright yellow suit, but otherwise wrong.

 

[Vorxian]

One can argue that the fun in the game is using the tools. Not to spend all your time getting the tools, only to find yourself not having anything to use your tools on

The update is coming! soon! (tm)

 

[DefiledDragon]

I'm not going to address specific issues as there are more than enough threads on the various subjects already.

I'm going to talk about the 'feel' of the game. I began Elite just after release of v1.0. On the first day, the learning curve was steep and the challenge of just getting off the launch pad with mouse and keyboard was daunting. I took several dozen trips into Settings to get my key binds just right. I didn't go into supercruise for an hour, as I wanted to feel comfortable flying the ship. I truly felt challenged and the reward of getting that little Sidey do my bidding was incredible.

My first mission was a Black Box recovery for 17K which involved a series of embarrassing overshoots into a USS as I learned throttle control. The 7 second rule being unknown to me at the time. I persevered through that, the cargo scooping and return to the station. 2.5 hours to launch off the pad, recover a Black Box and return. And it was magnificent. The next night, I did more missions and slowly accumulated more money. Within a week, I had enough to grab a C-rated Eagle and RES became my hunting grounds. When I got my first Cobra, I was like Leo DeCaprio on the bow of the Titanic. King of the World.

Two years later, the game has changed dramatically. First, massive kudos to DB and his team for maintaining the central vision. If you watch the KS videos and hear DB talking about the game and it's future, then see what we have today, you see very little is different. That isn't the issue. The challenge in Elite: Dangerous is slowly disappearing. When I first began, I was nervous as I had one, maybe two rebuys covered. I had to be careful, keep my eyes open and think about what I needed to do. I died, many times. However, I was able to learn from the experiences and move on. I made more than I lost, and incrementally I acquired more assets and ships. From the Cobra, I got a T-7 and traded my way into an AspX over several weeks of play.

Today, money is so easy to make that people are in Anacondas in a week, which is frakking ridiculous IMHO. There's no suspense anymore. People have fifty rebuys covered in the bank and so they no longer have any concerns about dying. Indeed, they become cavalier and start doing stupid things as a result. There's no more incentive to learn how to do things right, the element of danger is grossly reduced. Why is this?

Frontier is giving in to vocal players who feel making more money makes for a better game. People who have no patience, no willingness to work toward a goal, no discipline and frankly, are in the wrong game. Since v1.0 rewards have gone up by a factor of 100 and people are still moaning it isn't enough. Giving players more money just turns this game into another mindless arcade shooter. And I hate to be the one to break it to you, but this will not shut up the moaners. They won't be happy until they get HALO in space ships and then they'll still trash the game because of it. They will never be happy and compromising with them will always be a losing proposition for you.

New players will now make millions, get into ships they don't know how to fly, die and blame the game. They will never take personal responsibility, so Elite will always be at fault. You will never win giving in to that type of player.

Devs - The game needs to return to its roots. Less is more. Don't give into the howling and impatient masses. Make them work for what they get and anyone who complains about it reinforces you made the right decision. They might even learn a valuable life lesson. Lord knows, many of them need it.

Get into ships they don't know how to fly? Personal responsibility? Make them work? A valuable life lesson?

Have you heard yourself?

First off, flying a Corvette is mechanically no different to flying a Sidewinder. Should we have separate driving tests for every make and model of car, or would that be ridiculous?

There's no such thing as personal responsibility in a video game because, well, there are no real consequences. If you die, you just spawn again and start over, even in ED.

Again, make them work? Why? It's a video game. It's supposed to be fun, not work. What is it that you think ED is? It's an entertainment product, it's not boot camp.

A valuable life lesson about what exactly?

You need to get the over yourself man, your posts are insufferably patronising, at best.

 

[Minoo Minou]

Get into ships they don't know how to fly? Personal responsibility? Make them work? A valuable life lesson?

Have you heard yourself?

First off, flying a Corvette is mechanically no different to flying a Sidewinder. Should we have separate driving tests for every make and model of car, or would that be ridiculous?

There's no such thing as personal responsibility in a video game because, well, there are no real consequences. If you die, you just spawn again and start over, even in ED.

Again, make them work? Why? It's a video game. It's supposed to be fun, not work. What is it that you think ED is? It's an entertainment product, it's not boot camp.

A valuable life lesson about what exactly?

You need to get the over yourself man, your posts are insufferably patronising, at best.

+1 Some people take all this way too seriously... Relax and have fun!

 

[thirstyfish]

Get into ships they don't know how to fly? Personal responsibility? Make them work? A valuable life lesson?

Have you heard yourself?

First off, flying a Corvette is mechanically no different to flying a Sidewinder. Should we have separate driving tests for every make and model of car, or would that be ridiculous?

There's no such thing as personal responsibility in a video game because, well, there are no real consequences. If you die, you just spawn again and start over, even in ED.

Again, make them work? Why? It's a video game. It's supposed to be fun, not work. What is it that you think ED is? It's an entertainment product, it's not boot camp.

A valuable life lesson about what exactly?

You need to get the over yourself man, your posts are insufferably patronising, at best.

To be fair. Airline pilots do have separate ratings for every different make and model of jet. Yet flying those are also functionally the same.

(playing devil's advocate, don't jump down my throat, put your handbag on the floor)