My thoughts on where things are going.

Read the WHOLE post. Writing on the wall.

Studios closing industry wide every year.

Retailers shrinking shelf space for games.

GameStop shareholders in a near panic.

AAA publishers depend on retailers to make those enormous $100 million investment numbers back. As retailers buy fewer and fewer games...It's coming, unless something changes.

- - - Updated - - -



If the X games only had Elites flight model, I could say a permanent farewell to ED...

The games industry is inexorably moving more towards digital distribution, the same way the home movie industry has done. Retailers like Target (whose primary business is not games, or even electronics in general), are paring down their selection to items that are likely to turn, but their games section will not completely disappear any more than the movies have. The selection, however, will certainly be less than what is was in the past. That was the only way to get games to market on a large scale in the past, but this is no longer true, and not only is digital distribution cheaper, but it has other benefits, like last-minute bug fixes or content additions that don't make it onto the physical media before it goes Gold.

Retailers like GameStop (whose primary business is games, the physical media versions of them specifically) certainly took notice when Blockbuster did not move quickly enough to change their business model. That is why you are starting to see other things in GameStops, like shirts, hats, lanyards, and other types of gamer culture merchandise. Their core business will certainly take a large hit (compared to what it has been) as publishers move more of their content to exclusively digital distribution, but if they can establish themselves as the place to get physical media, older games/systems, and things that are generally part of gamer culture, then they will be able to weather the changes, and continue being in business. As an additional bonus, these items provide a boost to both revenue, and gross margin until then.

Game studios (like other businesses) close all the time, and new ones open. That's just how business works - unless you are claiming that the games industry is on the verge of a major contraction like in the early 80's? There will be contractions (no industry continues to grow infinitely), but we aren't there yet, and it really won't be a large one, in any case.

I'm just going to walk away from your "gamers in the know" comment. I think I've already addressed that in this post.

Riôt
 
And it's interesting, because Frontier is hush-hush about the number of active players. It would be interesting to get these values from them, though I fear they would reaffirm the "niche game" portrait.

All of my friends stoped playing elite long time ago, some are backers, some are not.
Their average playtime is 50-80h total, said they will start to play again when elite gets depth and worthwile content.
That amount of hours for a samdbox is equal to zero.
Like in any other game ppl stop playing after they reached goals or get bored, thats normal. So i think majority old players stoped playing while new players emerge.
 
All of my friends stoped playing elite long time ago, some are backers, some are not.
Their average playtime is 50-80h total, said they will start to play again when elite gets depth and worthwile content.
That amount of hours for a samdbox is equal to zero.
Like in any other game ppl stop playing after they reached goals or get bored, thats normal. So i think majority old players stoped playing while new players emerge.

erm majority cant say that for sure ... we need accurate numbers for that ...
and us u know in every game ppl stop and new start :)
 

Probably the World of Tanks/Warships model is pretty successful. They added the ruins mission though, it was rough with bugs and way too grindy but a step in the right direction I feel. Everyone had a chance to get involved! My bets are on the chained mission system, it's a start. My fever dream is that we have 3.0, atmospheres and great narrative driven chained missions by the end of the year. Hopefully they'll have knocked off everything on the MMO Checklist too by then so they can focus on content.
 
I think OP here, and so many threads like it, miss a core issue when looking at the amount of work lavished on combat over exploration in the last year. Fiddling with the numbers is relatively easy. Making an interactible 1:1 scale galaxy of any depth is ridiculously ambitious and hard. I don't know why this point is so deftly passed over quite so often.

I don't buy the initial point in the OP that combat has feature creeped into an all encompassing position. It was always one major pillar of the Kickstarter etc, it's currently easier to service, and it gets a more obvious dividend from efforts thrown at it. (As noted there have been additions to exploration, but they just form tiny pinpricks in that big old galactic plane)

As much as this sentiment annoys the OP, time is all you've got. Time and hope. They're playing their chemical games with planetary surfaces, they've had work broiling away on proc gen clouds for a fair while now (it seems likely given the early demos and claims of ongoing work). We all know the state the game launched in. If you want a relatively AAA experience of flying your spaceship through a living galaxy, it's clearly gonna take time. (And if other playstyles need to be facilitated along the way, to take this game up to at least 'sci fi' niche, rather than 'what's over that hill astronomy' niche niche, then that's how it's got to be.)

You have my love space brothers and sisters. I want your favourite pastime to get lavished with additions too. Let us hold out for that day. (And, between constructively criticising, play other stuff when ED's annoying us ;))

I would like to point out, that while the scale of the game IS impressive, it's is 100% procedural. Which means that, effectively, it IS all done from the press of a button. It is a single algorithmic routine that decides what star goes where, how many planets are around it. Space stations and other 'manmade' items are indeed placed by hand (AFAIK), and that WAS a lot of work in the beginning. But that's been done now. The galaxy will simply not change very much at all, so unless they add major features (like Horizons planet landings), the galaxy is pretty much what it is.
 
Can't rep you on mobile, so here are a virtual rep +1

PVE are lacking and a lot of the features FD promoted in the early days didn't appear.
 
I would like to point out, that while the scale of the game IS impressive, it's is 100% procedural. Which means that, effectively, it IS all done from the press of a button. It is a single algorithmic routine that decides what star goes where, how many planets are around it. Space stations and other 'manmade' items are indeed placed by hand (AFAIK), and that WAS a lot of work in the beginning. But that's been done now. The galaxy will simply not change very much at all, so unless they add major features (like Horizons planet landings), the galaxy is pretty much what it is.

I'm not clear on your point here. That doesn't equate to altering or filling out the galaxy further being an easy task though. Is that what you're suggesting?

Altering proc gen stuff is a mammoth QA headache because when you change one thing a spread of other factors change, often unintentionally. As we know there is indeed ongoing work on planetary surfaces etc, and they will be up against this. (In theory significant changes including caves are on the way, and that's far from a trivial alteration).

I was talking about challenges like this (altering and improving the proc gen system), and the challenge of embedding bespoke material amongst the proc gen backdrop in a way that is convincing. That's a huge amount of real estate, with a lot of variables, and slotting that stuff in with any volume (without it appearing ridiculously frequently or being annoyingly repetitious) is now a huge ongoing challenge for FDev. When you consider that the stuff they aim to add will include believable weather systems and complex life, we're talking about simulating a 'living' galaxy as the ultimate end game. It makes keeping some PvP heads happy with heat balancing look like child's play ;)
 
Last edited:
I'm not clear on your point here. That doesn't equate to altering or filling out the galaxy further being an easy task though. Is that what you're suggesting?

Altering proc gen stuff is a mammoth QA headache because when you change one thing a spread of other factors change, often unintentionally. As we know there is indeed ongoing work on planetary surfaces etc, and they will be up against this. (In theory significant changes including caves are on the way, and that's far from a trivial alteration).

I was talking about challenges like this (altering and improving the proc gen system), and the challenge of embedding bespoke material amongst the proc gen backdrop in a way that is convincing. That's a huge amount of real estate, with a lot of variables, and slotting that stuff in with any volume (without it appearing ridiculously frequently or being annoyingly repetitious) is now a huge ongoing challenge for FDev. When you consider that the stuff they aim to add will include believable weather systems and complex life, we're talking about simulating a 'living' galaxy as the ultimate end game. It makes keeping some PvP heads happy with heat balancing look like child's play ;)

I understand what you're attempting to convey. Keep in mind, that (and I am only speaking for some people, not all) exploration does not need to end up with some huge discovery that would change the shape of the galaxy. Just finding something like the remnants of a long dead civilisation would be enough, or perhaps some relics from the Guardian's reign.

Exploration probably means different things to different people. Of course I would like to find something new and unusual, but realistically that cannot happen ever single time I enter a new system. No, what I would like is for exploration of star systems to mean more than just looking at stuff we've already seen a dozen times already.

For example, upon entering a system, your passive scanners detect a feint energy signal coming from somewhere about 2000Ls from the star. You look at the system map, and you find a couple of planets which are in range. You visit, scan and find the source on one of them. You land, search for it using the SRV, and find something. That something would depend on the energy signature, which you would know by looking at the SRV scanner, much like you do now. You find perhaps nothing but a crashed ship, or you find something interesting, like a relic identified as Guardian, or rarely, of unknown origin.

You take this relic back to your ship, and using your scientific onboard scanners, determine it's unique signature. Thus, when you come across it again, you know it's something you've found before, and could possibly lead you to another relic. Maybe it will lead to something bigger.. you just don't know. Perhaps it leads to a Guardian base or abandoned station, and you gain exploration ranking for finding it.

That's one specific example of something that could be added as a dynamic exploration 'mission', but not one you pick up at a station - you just stumble upon it as you fly around the galaxy. That is what's missing - a REASON to explore, which we simply do not have right now. Imagine the events Frontier could easily sprinkle in by doing this. Someone could stumble upon a whole new race of aliens, and they'd make the first discovery, not through complete blind chance, but by finding a signal, locating it's origin, following the breadcrumbs and finally making the actual discovery. It would then be up to them to decide if they want to report it, keep it to themselves, whatever. Frontier would have to adapt to their decision, if they say nothing, then they just wait for another breadcrumb to appear.

That's what I want to see. Not missions like Tam, who force you into it. We found the original ruins by pure luck and using a source we were not supposed to - if you put that into a gaming context though, we followed a lead, used scientific method to discover a location and confirm it. That's PROPER exploration.

We don't need handplaced items to make a good game. We just need a REASON to do things, other than gain rank and money.
 
Given that the statistical probability of people who agreed with my post, and didn't rep me is quite high, compared to those who did - well, I believe that is a hugely significant figure, and again, shouldn't be ignored.

Well, I feel the need (might regret it later) to point out that there is no down-vote button on your views and to be fair, judging by some of the posts on this area of the forum you are more likely to be up-voted in expressing a negative view.

Statistically speaking, its a bit like being presented with a 'Yes' button and taking the 'No' button away. Like the episode in the Simpsons where each of the family electrocutes one another as there is only one button to push - Electrocution.
 
We don't need handplaced items to make a good game. We just need a REASON to do things, other than gain rank and money.

Heya yep, I absolutely agree that those are the type of additions that would probably suit a large suite of explorers, and would be welcome. I'm just noting that even they are not trivial. Seeding the needles in the haystack, creating the assets and balancing their variety, creating the new needle-finding mechanics. In total these are significant jobs.
 
erm majority cant say that for sure ... we need accurate numbers for that ...
and us u know in every game ppl stop and new start :)

it was just my thought, it is not so important to me.
What i know for sure is that many players who stoped playing elite will start playing again when new groundbreaking content/mehanics is added, so far this season is not that according to my friends.
maybe 2.4 and season 3 will be [yesnod]
 
Well, I feel the need (might regret it later) to point out that there is no down-vote button on your views and to be fair, judging by some of the posts on this area of the forum you are more likely to be up-voted in expressing a negative view.

Statistically speaking, its a bit like being presented with a 'Yes' button and taking the 'No' button away. Like the episode in the Simpsons where each of the family electrocutes one another as there is only one button to push - Electrocution.

Again, I concede the point there is no negative downvote - which would possibly be a good idea... unfortunately, such things are generally abused, which is likely why they're not included.

Also, there have been plenty of opportunity for people to criticise and disagree with my points. Indeed, a few people have done so, in a constructive and non-aggressive manner, which is very pleasing to see. The number of people who agree with many of the points raised within this thread, as opposed to those who disagree.. well, I'm afraid that is still a valid statistic.

If I started this thread, and the overwhelming response was 'No, we think you're wrong, here's why, and everything is more or less ok' - I would concede I am wrong, and I would probably give up. That didn't happen, and since there are apparently plenty of people on the forums who disagree with me in other threads, I can only assume that they don't disagree with everything I said.

A poll would be interesting I suppose. But they were removed for y'know, Reasons®.
 
Just to point out that the biggest indicator that there is some amount of consensus
regarding the issues brought forth by the OP is that one year ago, such a thread would
be swarmed by white knights just using their imagination Swords ;)

To me, that is a big tell/sign.
 
I'm an Xbox One player and I have more than 1000 hours in the game. No, I'm not bored with it, I still play it almost on a daily basis. However, I agree with the OP. I avoid PvP (only play in Mobius) because I don't think it can ever be truly balanced with so many ships of different purposes. What I do most is trading, exploration and bounty hunting against AI opponents. For me Elite has always been about "space trading". Earning money, buying more ships and upgrades, earning more money. Discovering our beautiful galaxy. Seeing space wonders. This is the closest I'll ever get to really going to space. I also like the lore and the different discoveries others make, although I know I'll never make one as these puzzles are so obscure. I just read what others have found. Good enough for me. I like to feel like part of a galaxy, a community. I, too, don't think going into so many PvP details would be necessary. This is not an esports game. If anything, CQC has shown how people are not interested in it at all. The game should be more about the 400 billion star systems it contains and not only shooting each other. Heck, I even like mining sometimes. Anything but silly combat. But unlike the OP I still hope Frontier doesn't want to make the game completely PvP focused. Passenger missions are a step in the right direction in my opinion. A new reason to go exploring and having some context there. There should be more things like this. For me the real enjoyment in Elite is flying the ships, looking out the window and seeing beautiful things in space. Earning money and thinking about if this is really the future of humanity. Thinking about the science behind it all. I couldn't care less about PvP. No problem that it's there, just make more efforts in other segments of the game.
 
I watched this week's live stream with an ever increasing feeling of, "Oh dear..." - With every CMDR who was given command of the multi-crew ship and asked, "What shall we do?" I waited for an interesting nice involved answer... Something demonstrating the new gameplay and mechanics this latest design/development has introduced into the game. And we basically got, "Go to the nearest combat zone", or, "Attack something..."

And it's a sad summary of the majority of 2+ years of development ethos IMHO; Sounds great on paper, but the final spec/development doesn't live up to it, instead delivering a simple/quirky bolting on, rather than truly moving gameplay forwards...

And this has generally been the case seemingly cornerstone development after cornerstone development, so here we are 2+ years down the line with the same rather thin gameplay and mechanics, but now we can do it with whatever earlobe size we like, and with green or red lasers...
 
Last edited:
I watched this week's live stream with an ever increasing feeling of, "Oh dear..." - With every CMDR who was given command of the multi-crew ship and asked, "What shall we do?" I waited for an interesting nice involved answer... Something demonstrating the new gameplay and mechanics this latest design/development has introduced into the game. And we basically got, "Go to the nearest combat zone", or, "Attack something..."

And it's a sad summary of the majority of 2+ years of development ethos IMHO; Sounds great on paper, but the final spec/development doesn't live up to it, instead delivering a simple/quirky bolting on, rather than truly trying moving gameplay forwards...

And this has generally been the case seemingly cornerstone development after cornerstone development, so here we are 2+ years down the line with the same rather thin gameplay and mechanics, but now we can do it with whatever earlobe size we like, and with green or red lasers...

Honestly.

This iterative development model has been a massive fail since S1. Then they're talking about using player uptake of a major feature that's been released unfinished, in a barebones state, to help determine the future development budget. They're literally throwing *stuff* at the wall and seeing what sticks.

I give massive kudos to whoever manages FDev's budget. More alien easter eggs and less actual content, please.
 
  • Like (+1)
Reactions: NMS
I watched this week's live stream with an ever increasing feeling of, "Oh dear..." - With every CMDR who was given command of the multi-crew ship and asked, "What shall we do?" I waited for an interesting nice involved answer... Something demonstrating the new gameplay and mechanics this latest design/development has introduced into the game. And we basically got, "Go to the nearest combat zone", or, "Attack something..."

And it's a sad summary of the majority of 2+ years of development ethos IMHO; Sounds great on paper, but the final spec/development doesn't live up to it, instead delivering a simple/quirky bolting on, rather than truly trying moving gameplay forwards...

And this has generally been the case seemingly cornerstone development after cornerstone development, so here we are 2+ years down the line with the same rather thin gameplay and mechanics, but now we can do it with whatever earlobe size we like, and with green or red lasers...

Honestly.

This iterative development model has been a massive fail since S1. Then they're talking about using player uptake of a major feature that's been released unfinished, in a barebones state, to help determine the future development budget. They're literally throwing *stuff* at the wall and seeing what sticks.

I give massive kudos to whoever manages FDev's budget. More alien easter eggs and less actual content, please.

I don't think the iterative development model is a failure, per se. The failure is how FDEV have used that model.

FDEV have done $base_release PLUS $new_feature_release PLUS $new_feature_release PLUS $new_feature_release , with some QoL enhancements and tweaks along the way.

Now if they had done something like this: $base_release PLUS $new_feature PLUS $fleshing_out PLUS $new_feature PLUS $fleshing_out... okay well then perhaps there'd be less new features within the same amount of time, but there'd be a lot more fleshing out of the existing content.

In short, in my opinion they've neglected doing a $fleshing_out phase for so long, that it doesn't really matter how many $new_features that have been added in the last 2 years - they're all $new_features on top of the same basic, minimalistic bare-bones content of Missions, Trading, Pew-Pew.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom