Yep. Or to make it simple.. you get a fine straight off the bat for shooting at an unknown contact. You then get a bounty added if they're scanned as clean.
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Make WANTED for accidental fire simply a fine - i.e. not WANTED
- Thread starter X-Terminator
- Start date
Yep. Or to make it simple.. you get a fine straight off the bat for shooting at an unknown contact. You then get a bounty added if they're scanned as clean.
X-Terminator
Banned
I have had reasonable success at getting the Gunner to comply (I can always remove pips or turn so he has no direct line of fire). This is totally fine.
The main concerns are when you have 2 Fighters and there's difficulty in arranging targets. We can not select each others targets with a bind as we can in Wings - WEIRD! So things get Rambo at times to just kill kill kill and ultimately we all aim for the same Ship as the Captains - then due to the need of rushing in we all get a bit too close at times and it is very easy for beams to catch each other.
Now is this a bug - can any player get all WANTED for hitting our own Ships? This has happened when a target is between 2 players and then as it explodes a stray beam hits the player.
I tested this in Anarchy on my own NPC Crew and this works as it should to not become WANTED. So what happens here in CLEAN Systems on both players of Crew, Wings and even NPC?
Come on FD, we got Shields god dam it. It should not be a case of the odd shot (not killing) making us run for our lives!!!
The main concerns are when you have 2 Fighters and there's difficulty in arranging targets. We can not select each others targets with a bind as we can in Wings - WEIRD! So things get Rambo at times to just kill kill kill and ultimately we all aim for the same Ship as the Captains - then due to the need of rushing in we all get a bit too close at times and it is very easy for beams to catch each other.
Now is this a bug - can any player get all WANTED for hitting our own Ships? This has happened when a target is between 2 players and then as it explodes a stray beam hits the player.
I tested this in Anarchy on my own NPC Crew and this works as it should to not become WANTED. So what happens here in CLEAN Systems on both players of Crew, Wings and even NPC?
Come on FD, we got Shields god dam it. It should not be a case of the odd shot (not killing) making us run for our lives!!!
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"Ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain speaking. Please ensure you are securely strapped to your seats while we go through the obligatory firing procedures. I know some of you will know this already, but as it may have changed recently, if you could remove the leaflet in the side of your seat..."
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X-Terminator
Banned
Gunner's Radar is tucked safely away on the cockpit panel (eh?).
Fighters are so fast you can not see them with huge noses of the Main Ship as Helm.
In VR we have limited distance of detail.
Multi-cannons are projectiles that take time to find the target and must lead to it to even hit.
There are times we do not understand the reason this ever happens and so we must not eliminate a BUG - I have seen me stop firing upon waiting for the explosion when at 0% and then after it does so, my own Ships get a contact from the wreck! We all become WANTED!
Fighters are so fast you can not see them with huge noses of the Main Ship as Helm.
In VR we have limited distance of detail.
Multi-cannons are projectiles that take time to find the target and must lead to it to even hit.
There are times we do not understand the reason this ever happens and so we must not eliminate a BUG - I have seen me stop firing upon waiting for the explosion when at 0% and then after it does so, my own Ships get a contact from the wreck! We all become WANTED!
I don't care that anyone 'thinks' a ship is wanted and so it 'should' be OK to shoot at it. THE SCAN MUST BE COMPLETED BEFORE YOU SHOOT AT THE TARGET. However: As stated above, if you have a ton of gold in your hold, the bad guys will shoot first and if you hit your hostile button, you have a completed scan of the aggressor; well after it has scanned any missiles that may be near you.
Stay shoots and 'friendly fire': Every one says, 'oh it is only a couple of shoots' and 'they have shields, so what difference does it make?' Well it can make a difference. As stated before; if you are Allied with the said faction; it takes more then just a couple of shots, to get the 'lets all turn on him' response. The reason for the harshness is simple. If you have a new player in a stock sidewinder with their fixed small pulses, hit most ships in the game; it is not going to cause much damage to the shields etc. A couple of small pulses can pew pew all day and the battle hardened ships are hardly going to notice; but if the said player is in an FDL that has six times the fire power, if it is just fitted with pulse weapons and god know how many times more powerful, if fitted with rail-guns or P.As.. Then that IS going to make a difference, that IS going to do damage and after a few shots, could destroy the target ship. Also, if the target ship, is already suffering, one or two stray shots from an FDL could finish it off.
I used to be in the 'watch your fire and show some discipline' camp; but that was when I could only afford to fly a Cobra. Which with a little discipline, it is easy to avoid the friendly fire stuff. These days I use turrets and have more and bigger guns to play with and realise that 'these things can sometimes happen' and if it does, I have to pay the price and run away, but only if I have not first taken notice of the warnings, I have been given; because as I have said: If you are Allied, you get a warning. I have run beams down half the length of an Anaconda and just been told; watch your fire Commander.
Agreed again: It should be just a fine and not have every ship turn on you, but how many times should you be able to get away with it? I think the second time you do it, you should be told, 'You have 1 minute to leave the zone' or then, you will be killed.
As to the 'it was not me, it was my crew mate' issue. Get rid of the crew mate.
Stay shoots and 'friendly fire': Every one says, 'oh it is only a couple of shoots' and 'they have shields, so what difference does it make?' Well it can make a difference. As stated before; if you are Allied with the said faction; it takes more then just a couple of shots, to get the 'lets all turn on him' response. The reason for the harshness is simple. If you have a new player in a stock sidewinder with their fixed small pulses, hit most ships in the game; it is not going to cause much damage to the shields etc. A couple of small pulses can pew pew all day and the battle hardened ships are hardly going to notice; but if the said player is in an FDL that has six times the fire power, if it is just fitted with pulse weapons and god know how many times more powerful, if fitted with rail-guns or P.As.. Then that IS going to make a difference, that IS going to do damage and after a few shots, could destroy the target ship. Also, if the target ship, is already suffering, one or two stray shots from an FDL could finish it off.
I used to be in the 'watch your fire and show some discipline' camp; but that was when I could only afford to fly a Cobra. Which with a little discipline, it is easy to avoid the friendly fire stuff. These days I use turrets and have more and bigger guns to play with and realise that 'these things can sometimes happen' and if it does, I have to pay the price and run away, but only if I have not first taken notice of the warnings, I have been given; because as I have said: If you are Allied, you get a warning. I have run beams down half the length of an Anaconda and just been told; watch your fire Commander.
Agreed again: It should be just a fine and not have every ship turn on you, but how many times should you be able to get away with it? I think the second time you do it, you should be told, 'You have 1 minute to leave the zone' or then, you will be killed.
As to the 'it was not me, it was my crew mate' issue. Get rid of the crew mate.
X-Terminator
Banned
Waiting to complete scans is simple discipline after a few errors.
Trying to work in combat with unknown CMDRs who do not use a mic is just hope of trust but would we do need a method of Helm to issue Targets. In fact Wings is the wrong way around too! You can target Wingman's Target but it should have been the Leader which gives you a Target in the first place to avoid the need of relying on coms only and having to type if no mic is used! It was not designed properly but would be the same binds for Multi-Crew if it was!
Trying to work in combat with unknown CMDRs who do not use a mic is just hope of trust but would we do need a method of Helm to issue Targets. In fact Wings is the wrong way around too! You can target Wingman's Target but it should have been the Leader which gives you a Target in the first place to avoid the need of relying on coms only and having to type if no mic is used! It was not designed properly but would be the same binds for Multi-Crew if it was!
But is having wings or another player controlling guns, an opening to attack a second ship?
I see what you are saying; the ships/wing Commander should dictate the targets, but I don't think it should be fixed. Maybe a default thing, with an option to switch to another ship, if desired.
Not 37.5 minutes ago, I was blasting a FdL in a HazRes, from a range of about a click, when some idiot NPC Cobra III boosts in between us. Splat. I've no time to react. I get a 200 fine. Then, seconds later, he's killed. So, murder and a fine and 7 days of penance.
Now, this isn't exactly the end of the world. But this is a very annoying mechanic and I'm not sure it can be defended.
Now, this isn't exactly the end of the world. But this is a very annoying mechanic and I'm not sure it can be defended.
X-Terminator
Banned
It's because of the fast confusion in combat and augmented by lack of coms fully or even time to act on them.
Fighters are so fast that they end up on swooping joists lots to avoid being targeted themselves (being glass-cannons)
Gunners can only guess where to look for any Helms targeted (with +) and the Mouse movement is very sensitive.
It is awkward to have to search for the right targets which Helm would prefer them all to go for under such speedy mechanisms.
The best method really is to be designated Targets just as good Crew request anyways but is just clumsy to do at present.
Fighters are so fast that they end up on swooping joists lots to avoid being targeted themselves (being glass-cannons)
Gunners can only guess where to look for any Helms targeted (with +) and the Mouse movement is very sensitive.
It is awkward to have to search for the right targets which Helm would prefer them all to go for under such speedy mechanisms.
The best method really is to be designated Targets just as good Crew request anyways but is just clumsy to do at present.
It's a pain when that happens.
I fired a (very large) volley of missiles and Packhounds at my target a few days ago, and I guess he had ECM, because they all just kinda decided to pick something else to chase down. Unfortunately for me, it was the local security my missiles had an eye on.
And being my own missiles, my own PD didn't even bother to help. And of course, it was also the one time the security ship didn't have 25 PDs of its own.
There's actually no way to prevent that, other than not using missiles.
Luckily, my missiles didn't kill the security, but it sure made them mad.
And that's when I decided I'd done enough damage, and quietly slipped away. Lol
I also shot myself with my own missiles once too. Which kinda proves, missiles are not as reliable as i once thought.
The only thing that really annoys me is when you are a little too quick on the trigger when firing on pirates that the local authority is already firing on. Surely they should be broadcasting to all ships that what they are firing on is wanted rather than having to scan it.
They are already hitting it, it's clearly wanted in the system, it's not innocent! All they should do is broadcast that information & jobs a good-un, you can fire on it too, without the risk of them turning on you because you forgot to scan their wanted target.
I know it's not a bug, it's probably got a good reason for being like this, perhaps to extend the battle a little longer so not everything is firing on the wanted target at the same time. Still, it can be infuriating. The bounty should stay however, but there should be a threshold where they will give you the option of paying on the spot via credit transfer (or a bribe for donuts) and they will leave you alone until they witness (or receive a report) of you doing it again.
They are already hitting it, it's clearly wanted in the system, it's not innocent! All they should do is broadcast that information & jobs a good-un, you can fire on it too, without the risk of them turning on you because you forgot to scan their wanted target.
I know it's not a bug, it's probably got a good reason for being like this, perhaps to extend the battle a little longer so not everything is firing on the wanted target at the same time. Still, it can be infuriating. The bounty should stay however, but there should be a threshold where they will give you the option of paying on the spot via credit transfer (or a bribe for donuts) and they will leave you alone until they witness (or receive a report) of you doing it again.
So the next time the local police are shooting at a bad guy in the street, you think it will be OK to join in?
Maybe we get an option to engineer our scanners so we can have 1 second scan, so we don't have the wait the 3 maybe 4 seconds for any scan to complete.
Its a pity that the initial 200Cr accidental shooting fine isnt just something you could actually pay off to Sys forces there and then.
ie. you get teh fine, the chat box has a dailogue option to say pay fine? Y/N- Yes then all is good, No hell breaks loose.
Maybe you get 3 fines before they get annoyed at you and dont allow this fast payment.
Or even better maybe they then ay that 200Cr fine is now err a random value from 1000Cr-1000000Cr depending on your cash balance. So you are paying the sys forces to look the other way?
ie. you get teh fine, the chat box has a dailogue option to say pay fine? Y/N- Yes then all is good, No hell breaks loose.
Maybe you get 3 fines before they get annoyed at you and dont allow this fast payment.
Or even better maybe they then ay that 200Cr fine is now err a random value from 1000Cr-1000000Cr depending on your cash balance. So you are paying the sys forces to look the other way?
X-Terminator
Banned
A joke isn't it...you are there helping them kill a WANTED with a bounty of perhaps 200k Credits and then they put that on hold and chase you instead for a bounty of 200 Cr
[laugh]
Now even if they actually prioritized the target it would make it more sense at least!
Also YES, it sure would have been nice of the Cops to send out a local known WANTED list in the immediate vicinity to save you having to wait for a scan whilst they get to take all the shots. Another way of course would be to get shot at!
[laugh]
Now even if they actually prioritized the target it would make it more sense at least!
Also YES, it sure would have been nice of the Cops to send out a local known WANTED list in the immediate vicinity to save you having to wait for a scan whilst they get to take all the shots. Another way of course would be to get shot at!
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Not everyone has regeneration sequence for a start, but even if they do, only Wingman = Regeneration, Both Friend & Foe = Damage, and the other factor is you can't have wingmen & multi-crew at the same time anyway (Original post is more about this happening with MC players).
I'd like to see a bribe/immediate payment solution. Something like you can pay the bounty to security ships immediately, - and it gets downgraded to fine for some time (maybe an hour), and you still have to pay the fine, before it times out and becomes a bounty again. Can only be done if you're clean with no dormants / illegal cargo etc and they will scan you as part of the condition of paying like this.