It feels like someone is doing their job wrong

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Sadly I have to agree with the OP.

The unfortunate truth is that nearly all of the features in game are "placeholder" and have been since release. I bought into that back then as I was impressed with the base game, flight model, basic mechanics and thought it had huge potential but gave up on it a while ago.

Look at the basic game play elements
Missions are still an RNG mess - better than they were but still miles from what they should be by now
Exploration is not even bare bones in it's implementation and has been totally ignored by the dev team
Trading kinda works but then again kinda doesn't and there is zero depth....system in famine state = tonnes of food in the station at a low price?
Combat is probably the one thing they have got right - but even that lacks any meaning - kill 1000 pirates/members from one NPC faction and there is no consequence

Those are the basics and they have barely been developed. As for PP, CQC, Engineers, Billions of empty moons to drive around, multicrew with nothing to do etc....again none of it is finished or particularly well implemented.

I get that it's in development and it's a 10 year project but it has to work as intended at some point before those 10yrs are up.....surely?

I keep reading the phrase 'placeholders', like it's been written in the vain hope that the features we have aren't indeed, the finished article as intended by FDev.

I surmise that the expectation of improvement, fleshing out or adding to that content is "Waiting for a train long gone"... to misquote Mal Reynolds...
 
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+1 OP

While we get tired of hearing how many CR/Hr you can earn, there's so little else to engage the user. Lore is missing entirely from the day to day, and can only really be found online. Everything in game seems so disconnected from the other that Elite is more of a set of mini-games with no relation to each other.

I still enjoy aspects of the game, but there's little purpose for me as a CMDR. I'm not engaged by the game, I engage the game. If that makese any sense. There's no sense of purpose for me as an individual. Other than make credits and engineer my ships to perfection. It's this that causes the Grind to be front and center for everyone.

They should really focus on creating connections between BGS, PP, Lore, Aliens in such a way as it compells us to become part of the story. And not in a "oh look, a mission that pays big bucks" sort of way.

Yeah, space legs would be cool, but c'mon, after 3 times walking around your ship, you'll be done with that. 2 times walking around a station, you'll be done with that. Sure, it's a necessary feature, but not at the expense of core mechanics.
 
For space trucking and BGS/economy, i remember when playing Jumpgate (an old space MMO, very nice) the economy was mostly player driven, with planets and stations "eating" resources to produce more stuff that you could then trade again, etc. I remember also that this was one of the rare games where your cargo was in VOLUME not in WEIGHT so your ship had a fixed cargo volume, but taking Iridium vs taking Aluminium clearly didnt end up with the same weight... Trying to fly a huge Iridium cargo was fun times, also these had a good impact on the economy, you could see your loadout added to the station resources, then being consumed by processes.
None of this happens in ED, which is disappointing.



+1 for mentioning Jumpgate...And hey, from another old Jumpgate junkie. I flew with the Red Dwarfers (Quantar Rules!) for a couple of years [yesnod]
 
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I keep reading the phrase 'placeholders', like it's been written in the vain hope that the features we have aren't indeed, the finished article as intended by FDev.

I surmise that the expectation of improvement, fleshing out or adding to that content is "Waiting for a train long gone"... to misquote Mal Reynolds...

Indeed, the term "placeholder" is really just wishful thinking on our part. I think we all know deep down that those "placeholder" features are, with some rare exception, the finished product as we'll get it. Some of them are simply baked in so deep that if they tried to change them now they'd have to rewrite half the game from scratch due to all the other "placeholders" that have been layered on top since.
 
I keep reading the phrase 'placeholders', like it's been written in the vain hope that the features we have aren't indeed, the finished article as intended by FDev.

I surmise that the expectation of improvement, fleshing out or adding to that content is "Waiting for a train long gone"... to misquote Mal Reynolds...

Indeed.

I reckon waiting on, say, USS/POI improvements, or actual, interactive Exploration mechanics, will turn out to be a "Long wait for a train dont come" in the end myself.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go watch Serenity. Or maybe Firefly.

Or maybe the Expanse. There are actually episodes of that I HAVENT seen. Twice.
 
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Indeed.

I reckon waiting on, say, USS/POI improvements, or actual, interactive Exploration mechanics, will turn out to be a "Long wait for a train dont come" in the end myself.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go watch Serenity. Or maybe Firefly.

Or maybe the Expanse. There are actually episodes of that I HAVENT seen. Twice.

Now you've done it....Serenity it is then :D
 
There are people here, a number of individuals on this forum that like to defend everything FDev does as well as hate others discussing the game critically. All they want to hear is "praise FDev!"

Meh, not too many. Most of us will offer up some criticism when we think its warranted. Same on the flips side, there are few haters around who criticize everything. Fortunately they are not too many in number.
 
Hey all,

I want to start this off with saying that I like the game and find it playable enough to have fun and I definitely got my money worth out of it. But in the last year, or more like since the horizons release, I feel like I'm in a positon where I have to write this here even tough my career goal is in the same area. I don't want to be offensive or anything, but this completely irks me and I simply can't understand what I'm going to say here, so maybe I will get some enlightment here.

What is actually happening in your development process, Frontier? I simply can't follow what takes so much time with what you actually create. But lets go through it!

Easier things first: Galnet is empty. I recently had to visualize some thesis about how to engage your community to co-create content with you. It seems like you completely missed every potential for that, seeing as how most of Galnet right now are summarizations of different stuff. You care about lore? Well, there's not much anymore. This was different once. And, to top it off, you have to go through all that summarization which won't interest you in the slightest if you are keen on lore. Why is the state so barren? Where is a simple writer to write out snippets of a pre-determined story? Where are incentives for user-creations? It feels like such a missed opportunity.

2) Powerplay + Engineering: There's enough criticism out there. From the endless grindfest² of Powerplay to the PvP-Balance gap of Engineered/Unengineered and need to do grindfest material gathering. The latter was patched to be made easier, but its still concerning on how the first iteration even came about. But, as said, not going into depth here. Powerplay was a missed opportunity and Engineering feels like forcing horizon(planet)-content.

3) Holo-Me. Finally! We have our character creator! It's well done and the transitions are nice, cudos to the programmers/artists/sound-designers. But now, after waiting half a year... microtransactions! Not a single available tattoo? Completely basic suits? I don't care you want to earn money with microtransactions, but to bring out such a anticipated feature with, in the end, half baked customization, feels awkward. It's a nice character creator, but it feels like theres not much, especially due to face limitation. I know, we don't see the character anyways, but if we already have a face-concentration, why are there so few options available? Like mentioned, no tatoos, no... future piercings, whatever the heck you can want. Again, it feels somewhat barebones and too limited. Why do I have to pay for some black ink in my face? Why are there just simple color variations of the most basic outfit? You really couldn't offer at least some *simple* alternatives? It feels... well, like a missed opportunity?

4) Multi-Crew. Yay, a friend can fly around with me! And... shoot some stuff with cannons. I really don't know what I expected. It's somewhat fun, but in the end... its... well... a missed opportunity for something more.

5) Planets. The current iterations we have. The great driving around on planets with some bases. So you obviously have a procedural generation for the planets. Who basically all look the same as they are moons. And don't feel different... as they are moons. It's fine. I accept that. But again, everything feels absolutely the same. There's no difference from Moon A to B in terms of gameplay except some materials you actually scope (and the ruins-events). Missions on moons feel barebones too. Why aren't, at least in the bubble near populated systems, some generated human bases with turrets and protective fliers? Or anything at all. To not make it barebones. Because again, it feels... like a missed opportunity.

6) Ship Customization. Well, I literally can't do anything without buying anything out of the store with additional money. Theres not even anything ingame to obtain to customize my ship. What is this? Why, just why, aren't there some goals? Your playerbase is big. There aren't only grinders who try this game out. You have to hook people to want some progression other than money(and thus ships). Its like the most basic concept one can think of. What happened here? Its, again, a missed opportunity and makes it feel even more cash-shoppy.

7) Background-Simulation. What is actually happening here? In the terms of "what does it actually do" ?. What is your code doing? We obviously don't have something persistent thats interacting with the players at all. We have some number tweeking with wares and minor faction influences and their spreading. Different people will have their own reasons to join powerplay and help minor factions, mainly due to roleplay reasons. That's cool, at least. But the Background-Simulation really feels to fall flat and to serve no real purpose concerning wares and trade.
But Minor Factions! I can have my own? AWESOME. Except for people who have to wait over 3 months to have it inserted. I simply can NOT comprehend how the insertion can last this long. I'm still waiting and I have no problems doing so, but others clearly want them integrated. So, you obviously have lists every time of, lets say, 30 new minor factions of players. You can't tell me that you can't take one guy after checking availability to simply insert them into the game for the next update. There has to be some interface in your code for this. There must be. I can't believe that you are writing code snippets for every insertion. Where is the automated system after accepting and checking? (Or even accepting and checking too).

8) 3rd-party Tools. Half of the time when trading I have to check on another website OUTSIDE the game where I can get something. Why? Its some g time in the future where everything is connected in some way(see Galnet) - But there is no ingame function to actually check that stuff? This seems like the first thing stations would want to publish to sell goods and get more traffic. Not to mention resource-route determination. Why do I have to switch OUT of the game to get stuff done efficiently? You clearly want me to loose every immersion possible, right? Failed opportunity.

9) I had something here, but I don't remember because the forum deleted half of my post after submitting and I'm loosing my steam. Passengers, Pirate Interdactions, you name it. But it was something different. Anyways, I wanted to get at the following:

Something is clearly wrong. And I mean clearly! I don't know what part in your team screws up though. Something has to. All the time since horizons release and it basically still feels like the absolute same game for me. Some small additions, but nothing big. Everything underwhelming, awkward or too obstruse to not be worth the effort. Why? Is management forcing bad decisions about the team? Are your game designers strictly bad because the different game modules all seem so barebones? Are they maybe limited by upper management and thus can't create creatively?
Obviously you are doing bug fixing. And adding content. But its so slow! Its so barebones! It's so underwhelming! I feel disappointed after every patch. This is a feeling your customer should not have. And I simply don't know what you are doing that its ending up like this. Some problem area I think has to be identified. Hell, at the current rate I even suspect that most developers are at Planet Safari and Planet Coasters and this game is being done on the side for some money upkeep and future possibilities. What the hell has gone wrong that I am thinking of this possibility?

As I said, I didn't want to come off as offensive. But I also want to know what others feel about this issue.
I will be going to bed so I won't comment immediately, but thanks for reading!
Fly safe! o7

Simple answer, and people here who love to complain wont get it, but here goes:

The average selling price of Horizons is +-E30. That means the average cost per patch is 30/6=E5,-. So if you want to know why you didnt get more Multi-crew, more holo-me, more etc: this was the best they could do with your (on average) E5,-. Everyone wants more, but at the end of the day people just need to be a bit more realistic.
 
I keep reading the phrase 'placeholders', like it's been written in the vain hope that the features we have aren't indeed, the finished article as intended by FDev.

I surmise that the expectation of improvement, fleshing out or adding to that content is "Waiting for a train long gone"... to misquote Mal Reynolds...

Unfortunately I agree....it's sad but I did believe them when they said they would improve the core mechanics....I stopped waiting and playing a while ago when it became clear the improvements weren't coming.

It's difficult to summarise but the galaxy they have created feels devoid of life and dynamism, it's not a living breathing environment, it's just a bunch of things you can do in a ship in space, none of it has any real meaning, nothing feels important, joined up or even loosely linked with any other part.....sigh, so much potential.
 
Sadly, I have to agree with the OP.

Being selfish, and being 40K LY outside the Bubble, I mainly wish planets and moons and astronomical stuff had more variety and held more surprises. Some of the planetary graphics are fantastic, but whilst most are impressive technically, they are endlessly, desperately, repetitive in their presentation.

Here is a fantastic GG, but it only "looks" good. Why can't I swoop in on its atmosphere? Why can I not see the clouds whirling and boiling? For hundreds and hundreds of jumps the systems I encounter are essentially rinse and repeat versions of themselves. Yes, space will be repetitive in its details...but surely not identical?


Because it hasnt been coded yet. Same as why you cant land on earth likes, who look like the newest crysis but proc'genned with amazing creatures everywhere. We can imagine a million things, but actually making it happen aint easy. Which is why most of the stuff people here demand and feel explicitly entitled to has never been done in one integrated package. Which should give a clue as to how easy it is, and as such how likely it is such a thing will happen, never mind happen shortly.

They are working on gas giants. It will come at some point. Saying you want it now doesnt really speed things up. :)
 
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I don't know, sometimes 2.3 looks like wrapping things up and cashing as much as possible from cosmetics before SC 3.0 is released, moving then to ps4 and hoping for the best.

After all, Elite is structured to be a console game, since the get go. The HUD literally screams "console".
We've all been fooled because the support for the hotas is actually pretty good, that's it.
 
OP

Great post, I, like you, know you're going to get the ever lovin' crap kicked out of you for expressing anything other than roses towards this game, that I think we *all* want to be so much better than it is that none of us have given up on it yet.

However, you mentioned blame / fault.

In these kind of projects you can pretty much assume that the programmers are doing what they're told, and that the direction - the good and the bad and the down right ' awful comes from the top.

Braben, is as vague as anything on any of his AMA's / posts / vlogs, but he 'sounds' as though he wants and see's great things for Elite Dangerous.

It's the people he's delegated that to.

The exec producer and the senior game design team are the ones at fault. Whether it be that they keep trimming features and depth to save money / time for the shareholders, or because they are just so bad that they think what they are delivering is so awesome it's good enough..

I'm sure the boys and girls on the ground doing the grunt work know the problems, but the senior team just won't allow this game to be all it can be, and I think that Braben deserves some blame for allowing this to continue year after year.
 
Simple answer, and people here who love to complain wont get it, but here goes:

The average selling price of Horizons is +-E30. That means the average cost per patch is 30/6=E5,-. So if you want to know why you didnt get more Multi-crew, more holo-me, more etc: this was the best they could do with your (on average) E5,-. Everyone wants more, but at the end of the day people just need to be a bit more realistic.

Although I found myself nodding in agreement to the sentiment, Sleut...that ideal doesn't hold for any other game so in theory, it shouldn't for ED and Frontier... it's a bit too simplistic an argument to hold much water...
 
I'm really surprised and happy to see that the consensus seems to at least bit somewhat similar to mine. I kind of expected a harsher blacklash or... I don't know, not so many people who at least agree.

People who partly agree with my list and party don't - That's absolutely fine. We all have different priorities and different acceptance margins on the mechanics. But at least we seem to agree that objectively there are enough faults that it needs some adressing. Maybe to a varying degree, but still some adressing!
I also feel the people who are perfectly happy for the game. I'm happy for them and it is absolutely great, its what a game is supposed to be about!

I'm happy this post gained some traction by posting it to reddit so I could see the opinions. Tough it also partly seems like this went a bit the wrong way; While I indeed critized a lot of mechanics, I wanted to use that criticizm to mainly outlie the point I wanted to make which is the slow/awkward/whatevertocallit developement. But at the same time it is pretty clear that no user here would know what is actually going wrong. Here I especially liked some suggestions, like this being a pet project being kept alive for shareholders.

I definitely hope that isn't true... Or, in worst case, that it is true and the sole reasons we can even still play it.

That’s not to say that there haven’t been some great new things added to Elite since 1.0, there have been, it’s just that they’ve been the exception rather than the norm. The dedication of dev resources has seemed very slanted in one direction while neglecting others. From an art and sound point of view Elite’s development has been outstanding, top notch in the industry honestly, but from a game mechanics or gameplay point of view it has been less than stellar and oddly often misdirected compared to what the game really needs.

It makes me feel like Elite is a football team of best in league superstar players being led by a first year rookie high school coach. Sure now and then a player will make a great play due to skill and heart alone, but overall the plays being called are keeping them from ever making the playoffs, let alone the Superbowl…

This rings true so much and I really hope everything is going to work out.

I strongly believe this community is enthusiastic enough to help generate content(As mentioned, e.g., with GalNet), which might even relief some departments. But without understanding the underlying issues or having no opportunities to help, there sadly is not much we can do except to throw more money at implementations which the majority actually doesn't appear to like.
 
i agree with OP , i have no idea what Fdev are spending their time on , they had one year and a half for the new season , and hardly anything to show for it , it feels like one person is working on the game and not full time too .

funny thing is with multicrew , they know that because of the payouts no one will play it after afew weeks (new CQC), but even knowing that . they still spent time on it and made that payout change EPIC!! .
 

Jon474

Banned
Because it hasnt been coded yet. Same as why you cant land on earth likes, who look like the newest crysis but proc'genned with amazing creatures everywhere. We can imagine a million things, but actually making it happen aint easy. Which is why most of the stuff people here demand and feel explicitly entitled to has never been done in one integrated package. Which should give a clue as to how easy it is, and as such how likely it is such a thing will happen, never mind happen shortly.

They are working on gas giants. It will come at some point. Saying you want it now doesnt really speed things up. :)

I've been waiting quietly and patiently since June 2014...

No sense of entitlement here. I am just getting a bit tired of getting up and looking out of the window when I hear the car and see the headlights.

Jon
 
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