It feels like someone is doing their job wrong

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Ah a Fanboy got it :)

Ok why don't you guys get someone to liaise with FD - perhaps visit their HQ for one day a month to sit with the devs and ask whats happening and why ?
As I think that's the only way to get the ball rolling if you think that your voices aren't being heard !

Star Cit does it's PR really really well - their on the ball when it comes to informtion and when you email them they answer.
 
OP, you are not serious, are you?

nick-dodd-white-knight-sketch-v2.jpg
 
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As much as I love ED and it has probably been the best value for money game I've ever bought I do feel the OP has a lot of valid points.
The sense of wonder at what the future would hold after landing on my first planet has changed to a shrug after another update with nothing in it for me.

I used to think ED was the best value for money game I have played too,

for a while now I have been thinking of going back to World of Warcraft, but thought to myself... damn do I really want to pay that sub again..

so I did a little sum, I tallied up what a year's worth of WoW subscription would cost, then went to the Fdev store and looked at my past orders page,

at the end, over the period of a year, Elite Dangerous has cost me 10 pounds less (actually 4 pounds, since I bought 3 name plate packs since the comparison) in the last 12 months than if I was subscribed to WoW for that period.

I know I know, the cash shop is optional, but if you want anything... literally anything in the game to be customized... even base ship colours... you need to pay, nothing earnable in game

I've decided that come mid May, once I'm back from a planned business trip I'm going to resub to WoW and put ED on the back burner,
 
The game design process makes a lot more sense when you look at it from the point of view of the minimum viable product necessary to maximise the profitability, rather than to make an enjoyable long term gaming experience. It's a cash cow based on brand recognition, like damn near every major game and movie for the last decade. It's not a "passion project" or "braben's baby" or whatever other silly byline they threw out to goad in the whales. Every feature, first and foremost, is designed with the thought "how can we make money from this?" as opposed to "how will this enhance the gameplay experience?" The latter thought barely makes it in the end if they have time, if it even gets asked at all.

I’d like to argue against this, but it’s hard to given Frontier’s actions and update history. In one of the latest livestreams the absolute most enthusiastic Sandro ever got was while talking about potential micro transaction revenue streams from the 2.3 update. He had lots to say about the commander creator and the DLC for it and even visibly got excited when speaking about it. Questions about most actual game issues were met with either a “no comment” or a “never thought about it” or even a “maybe someday”, some of these questions were extremely common ones amongst the players too. What this behavior says to me is that Frontier is more concerned with keeping the shareholders happy than making the paying customers happy. I might be wrong, but based on what I see, this is how it appears.

Sadly my impression of the game’s development seems to mesh fluently with Frontier’s actual development history on Elite thus far; preferring to work on marketable shiny new features to generate sales and revenue rather than game mechanics for the people playing the game. Updates go live with a plethora of known bugs, features get reduced in scope to improve release dates, broken or unpopular features continue to be neglected to instead work on brand new features. Actions speak louder than words sometimes.

That’s not to say that there haven’t been some great new things added to Elite since 1.0, there have been, it’s just that they’ve been the exception rather than the norm. The dedication of dev resources has seemed very slanted in one direction while neglecting others. From an art and sound point of view Elite’s development has been outstanding, top notch in the industry honestly, but from a game mechanics or gameplay point of view it has been less than stellar and oddly often misdirected compared to what the game really needs.

It makes me feel like Elite is a football team of best in league superstar players being led by a first year rookie high school coach. Sure now and then a player will make a great play due to skill and heart alone, but overall the plays being called are keeping them from ever making the playoffs, let alone the Superbowl…
 
Hey all,

I want to start this off with saying that I like the game and find it playable enough to have fun and I definitely got my money worth out of it. But in the last year, or more like since the horizons release, I feel like I'm in a positon where I have to write this here even tough my career goal is in the same area. I don't want to be offensive or anything, but this completely irks me and I simply can't understand what I'm going to say here, so maybe I will get some enlightment here.

What is actually happening in your development process, Frontier? I simply can't follow what takes so much time with what you actually create. But lets go through it!

Easier things first: Galnet is empty. I recently had to visualize some thesis about how to engage your community to co-create content with you. It seems like you completely missed every potential for that, seeing as how most of Galnet right now are summarizations of different stuff. You care about lore? Well, there's not much anymore. This was different once. And, to top it off, you have to go through all that summarization which won't interest you in the slightest if you are keen on lore. Why is the state so barren? Where is a simple writer to write out snippets of a pre-determined story? Where are incentives for user-creations? It feels like such a missed opportunity.

2) Powerplay + Engineering: There's enough criticism out there. From the endless grindfest² of Powerplay to the PvP-Balance gap of Engineered/Unengineered and need to do grindfest material gathering. The latter was patched to be made easier, but its still concerning on how the first iteration even came about. But, as said, not going into depth here. Powerplay was a missed opportunity and Engineering feels like forcing horizon(planet)-content.

3) Holo-Me. Finally! We have our character creator! It's well done and the transitions are nice, cudos to the programmers/artists/sound-designers. But now, after waiting half a year... microtransactions! Not a single available tattoo? Completely basic suits? I don't care you want to earn money with microtransactions, but to bring out such a anticipated feature with, in the end, half baked customization, feels awkward. It's a nice character creator, but it feels like theres not much, especially due to face limitation. I know, we don't see the character anyways, but if we already have a face-concentration, why are there so few options available? Like mentioned, no tatoos, no... future piercings, whatever the heck you can want. Again, it feels somewhat barebones and too limited. Why do I have to pay for some black ink in my face? Why are there just simple color variations of the most basic outfit? You really couldn't offer at least some *simple* alternatives? It feels... well, like a missed opportunity?

4) Multi-Crew. Yay, a friend can fly around with me! And... shoot some stuff with cannons. I really don't know what I expected. It's somewhat fun, but in the end... its... well... a missed opportunity for something more.

5) Planets. The current iterations we have. The great driving around on planets with some bases. So you obviously have a procedural generation for the planets. Who basically all look the same as they are moons. And don't feel different... as they are moons. It's fine. I accept that. But again, everything feels absolutely the same. There's no difference from Moon A to B in terms of gameplay except some materials you actually scope (and the ruins-events). Missions on moons feel barebones too. Why aren't, at least in the bubble near populated systems, some generated human bases with turrets and protective fliers? Or anything at all. To not make it barebones. Because again, it feels... like a missed opportunity.

6) Ship Customization. Well, I literally can't do anything without buying anything out of the store with additional money. Theres not even anything ingame to obtain to customize my ship. What is this? Why, just why, aren't there some goals? Your playerbase is big. There aren't only grinders who try this game out. You have to hook people to want some progression other than money(and thus ships). Its like the most basic concept one can think of. What happened here? Its, again, a missed opportunity and makes it feel even more cash-shoppy.

7) Background-Simulation. What is actually happening here? In the terms of "what does it actually do" ?. What is your code doing? We obviously don't have something persistent thats interacting with the players at all. We have some number tweeking with wares and minor faction influences and their spreading. Different people will have their own reasons to join powerplay and help minor factions, mainly due to roleplay reasons. That's cool, at least. But the Background-Simulation really feels to fall flat and to serve no real purpose concerning wares and trade.
But Minor Factions! I can have my own? AWESOME. Except for people who have to wait over 3 months to have it inserted. I simply can NOT comprehend how the insertion can last this long. I'm still waiting and I have no problems doing so, but others clearly want them integrated. So, you obviously have lists every time of, lets say, 30 new minor factions of players. You can't tell me that you can't take one guy after checking availability to simply insert them into the game for the next update. There has to be some interface in your code for this. There must be. I can't believe that you are writing code snippets for every insertion. Where is the automated system after accepting and checking? (Or even accepting and checking too).

8) 3rd-party Tools. Half of the time when trading I have to check on another website OUTSIDE the game where I can get something. Why? Its some g time in the future where everything is connected in some way(see Galnet) - But there is no ingame function to actually check that stuff? This seems like the first thing stations would want to publish to sell goods and get more traffic. Not to mention resource-route determination. Why do I have to switch OUT of the game to get stuff done efficiently? You clearly want me to loose every immersion possible, right? Failed opportunity.

9) I had something here, but I don't remember because the forum deleted half of my post after submitting and I'm loosing my steam. Passengers, Pirate Interdactions, you name it. But it was something different. Anyways, I wanted to get at the following:

Something is clearly wrong. And I mean clearly! I don't know what part in your team screws up though. Something has to. All the time since horizons release and it basically still feels like the absolute same game for me. Some small additions, but nothing big. Everything underwhelming, awkward or too obstruse to not be worth the effort. Why? Is management forcing bad decisions about the team? Are your game designers strictly bad because the different game modules all seem so barebones? Are they maybe limited by upper management and thus can't create creatively?
Obviously you are doing bug fixing. And adding content. But its so slow! Its so barebones! It's so underwhelming! I feel disappointed after every patch. This is a feeling your customer should not have. And I simply don't know what you are doing that its ending up like this. Some problem area I think has to be identified. Hell, at the current rate I even suspect that most developers are at Planet Safari and Planet Coasters and this game is being done on the side for some money upkeep and future possibilities. What the hell has gone wrong that I am thinking of this possibility?

As I said, I didn't want to come off as offensive. But I also want to know what others feel about this issue.
I will be going to bed so I won't comment immediately, but thanks for reading!
Fly safe! o7

+1 to all of this; especially the Trading complaints; I can't believe this hasn't been addressed in years. People are too dependant on third-party websites because the trade information in-game is useless. Immersion? Simulation? Nah...close the game and go to this other website because the in-game tools are awful. And apparently FDEV seems ok with this. Apparently this is completely acceptable.
 
I’d like to argue against this, but it’s hard to given Frontier’s actions and update history. In one of the latest livestreams the absolute most enthusiastic Sandro ever got was while talking about potential micro transaction revenue streams from the 2.3 update. He had lots to say about the commander creator and the DLC for it and even visibly got excited when speaking about it. Questions about most actual game issues were met with either a “no comment” or a “never thought about it” or even a “maybe someday”, some of these questions were extremely common ones amongst the players too. What this behavior says to me is that Frontier is more concerned with keeping the shareholders happy than making the paying customers happy. I might be wrong, but based on what I see, this is how it appears.

Sadly my impression of the game’s development seems to mesh fluently with Frontier’s actual development history on Elite thus far; preferring to work on marketable shiny new features to generate sales and revenue rather than game mechanics for the people playing the game. Updates go live with a plethora of known bugs, features get reduced in scope to improve release dates, broken or unpopular features continue to be neglected to instead work on brand new features. Actions speak louder than words sometimes.

That’s not to say that there haven’t been some great new things added to Elite since 1.0, there have been, it’s just that they’ve been the exception rather than the norm. The dedication of dev resources has seemed very slanted in one direction while neglecting others. From an art and sound point of view Elite’s development has been outstanding, top notch in the industry honestly, but from a game mechanics or gameplay point of view it has been less than stellar and oddly often misdirected compared to what the game really needs.

It makes me feel like Elite is a football team of best in league superstar players being led by a first year rookie high school coach. Sure now and then a player will make a great play due to skill and heart alone, but overall the plays being called are keeping them from ever making the playoffs, let alone the Superbowl…

Well said, my thoughts exactly. I still love this game but boy do they need to get their project management sorted out, in terms of paying off technical debt and fixing what they already have.
 
I grew to live with all the inconsistencies and bare-bone features. I still like to play around with this shiny first person fly around the galaxy nearly simulation and nearly multiplayer enviroment thing this "game" seems to represent.

It's what it is. No way perfect. Not really anything like a modern game - but it can be fun. sometimes.

There is the flight model, the BGS, and some other features to have fun with and play around for a while. Sometimes there are puzzles or new assets. Then the assets get cloned ... but .. hey. I am still here an play this. Must be something that I like. Maybe for me it's the mulitplayer part. But it's not perfect like nearly nothing. But it's still some things to do and see and some nice people to meet. And it's good looking most of the time. (oh and I personally like powerplay - with all it's flaws. Come on frontier give powerplay some more love and also CQc!)
 
Hey all,

I want to start this off with saying that I like the game and find it playable enough to have fun and I definitely got my money worth out of it. But in the last year, or more like since the horizons release, I feel like I'm in a positon where I have to write this here even tough my career goal is in the same area. I don't want to be offensive or anything, but this completely irks me and I simply can't understand what I'm going to say here, so maybe I will get some enlightment here.

What is actually happening in your development process, Frontier? I simply can't follow what takes so much time with what you actually create. But lets go through it!

Easier things first: Galnet is empty. I recently had to visualize some thesis about how to engage your community to co-create content with you. It seems like you completely missed every potential for that, seeing as how most of Galnet right now are summarizations of different stuff. You care about lore? Well, there's not much anymore. This was different once. And, to top it off, you have to go through all that summarization which won't interest you in the slightest if you are keen on lore. Why is the state so barren? Where is a simple writer to write out snippets of a pre-determined story? Where are incentives for user-creations? It feels like such a missed opportunity.

2) Powerplay + Engineering: There's enough criticism out there. From the endless grindfest² of Powerplay to the PvP-Balance gap of Engineered/Unengineered and need to do grindfest material gathering. The latter was patched to be made easier, but its still concerning on how the first iteration even came about. But, as said, not going into depth here. Powerplay was a missed opportunity and Engineering feels like forcing horizon(planet)-content.

3) Holo-Me. Finally! We have our character creator! It's well done and the transitions are nice, cudos to the programmers/artists/sound-designers. But now, after waiting half a year... microtransactions! Not a single available tattoo? Completely basic suits? I don't care you want to earn money with microtransactions, but to bring out such a anticipated feature with, in the end, half baked customization, feels awkward. It's a nice character creator, but it feels like theres not much, especially due to face limitation. I know, we don't see the character anyways, but if we already have a face-concentration, why are there so few options available? Like mentioned, no tatoos, no... future piercings, whatever the heck you can want. Again, it feels somewhat barebones and too limited. Why do I have to pay for some black ink in my face? Why are there just simple color variations of the most basic outfit? You really couldn't offer at least some *simple* alternatives? It feels... well, like a missed opportunity?

4) Multi-Crew. Yay, a friend can fly around with me! And... shoot some stuff with cannons. I really don't know what I expected. It's somewhat fun, but in the end... its... well... a missed opportunity for something more.

5) Planets. The current iterations we have. The great driving around on planets with some bases. So you obviously have a procedural generation for the planets. Who basically all look the same as they are moons. And don't feel different... as they are moons. It's fine. I accept that. But again, everything feels absolutely the same. There's no difference from Moon A to B in terms of gameplay except some materials you actually scope (and the ruins-events). Missions on moons feel barebones too. Why aren't, at least in the bubble near populated systems, some generated human bases with turrets and protective fliers? Or anything at all. To not make it barebones. Because again, it feels... like a missed opportunity.

6) Ship Customization. Well, I literally can't do anything without buying anything out of the store with additional money. Theres not even anything ingame to obtain to customize my ship. What is this? Why, just why, aren't there some goals? Your playerbase is big. There aren't only grinders who try this game out. You have to hook people to want some progression other than money(and thus ships). Its like the most basic concept one can think of. What happened here? Its, again, a missed opportunity and makes it feel even more cash-shoppy.

7) Background-Simulation. What is actually happening here? In the terms of "what does it actually do" ?. What is your code doing? We obviously don't have something persistent thats interacting with the players at all. We have some number tweeking with wares and minor faction influences and their spreading. Different people will have their own reasons to join powerplay and help minor factions, mainly due to roleplay reasons. That's cool, at least. But the Background-Simulation really feels to fall flat and to serve no real purpose concerning wares and trade.
But Minor Factions! I can have my own? AWESOME. Except for people who have to wait over 3 months to have it inserted. I simply can NOT comprehend how the insertion can last this long. I'm still waiting and I have no problems doing so, but others clearly want them integrated. So, you obviously have lists every time of, lets say, 30 new minor factions of players. You can't tell me that you can't take one guy after checking availability to simply insert them into the game for the next update. There has to be some interface in your code for this. There must be. I can't believe that you are writing code snippets for every insertion. Where is the automated system after accepting and checking? (Or even accepting and checking too).

8) 3rd-party Tools. Half of the time when trading I have to check on another website OUTSIDE the game where I can get something. Why? Its some g time in the future where everything is connected in some way(see Galnet) - But there is no ingame function to actually check that stuff? This seems like the first thing stations would want to publish to sell goods and get more traffic. Not to mention resource-route determination. Why do I have to switch OUT of the game to get stuff done efficiently? You clearly want me to loose every immersion possible, right? Failed opportunity.

9) I had something here, but I don't remember because the forum deleted half of my post after submitting and I'm loosing my steam. Passengers, Pirate Interdactions, you name it. But it was something different. Anyways, I wanted to get at the following:

Something is clearly wrong. And I mean clearly! I don't know what part in your team screws up though. Something has to. All the time since horizons release and it basically still feels like the absolute same game for me. Some small additions, but nothing big. Everything underwhelming, awkward or too obstruse to not be worth the effort. Why? Is management forcing bad decisions about the team? Are your game designers strictly bad because the different game modules all seem so barebones? Are they maybe limited by upper management and thus can't create creatively?
Obviously you are doing bug fixing. And adding content. But its so slow! Its so barebones! It's so underwhelming! I feel disappointed after every patch. This is a feeling your customer should not have. And I simply don't know what you are doing that its ending up like this. Some problem area I think has to be identified. Hell, at the current rate I even suspect that most developers are at Planet Safari and Planet Coasters and this game is being done on the side for some money upkeep and future possibilities. What the hell has gone wrong that I am thinking of this possibility?

As I said, I didn't want to come off as offensive. But I also want to know what others feel about this issue.
I will be going to bed so I won't comment immediately, but thanks for reading!
Fly safe! o7

This is a true post. It is clear the picture of the game and its development.

Congratulations.
 
I'm a software developer myself, working on enterprise software solutions right now, and honestly I don't know why it's taking so awfully long time for ED development. All features are incomplete, every update are more bugged than previous and with amounts of money we're pumping in game and the size of the team which working on ED it looks the more and more hilarious. On background of Planet Coaster which is good implemented, feature rich and polished, Elite looks like an unloved adopted child. With current development rates and numbers of features I'm not sure anymore if Horizons has worth the price I've paid for it. I've expected way more and expected it to be implemented way better. Well, at least I've expected it to be implemented without breaking an already existing game's features and/or mechanics. I think the root of these issues is management: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...ease-reconsider-yours-release-schedule-for-ED!

I'll wait for further updates, including 2.4 and see if something will go better or not. If not, I'm not going to buy next season. I'll wait for at least two of it's major updates and will take a look on reviews or forums. And if same glacial rate of development continues and issues will continue to snowball, I'm not gonna buy it. I doesn't paid for constantly putting the game on ice while waiting until issues will be fixed and/or new interesting content added. In the past six months I've spend more times waiting for updates than playing and I'm not enthusiastic about it at all.
 
+1 agree.

Trouble is, FD won;t even consider listening to opinions and views like this (ie common sense), instead they opt for their way (flawed) and not listen to the very people that allow them to continue to build and grow (without fixing i might add).

Micro transactions - hell. Really bad marketing in my view -

Oh, I'm pretty sure they are seeing this and will listen. But not sure if anything will change.
 
Good points OP!

Good luck, I find that voicing an opinion against this game lack of polish only triggers white knights to attack you. The pigeons will come and mess with your words and try to make you the bad guy!

I find that voicing an opinion is not the problem, acting like a whining spoiled brat without even providing any constructive criticism is what triggers white knights to attack you. Note how OP managed to provide criticism without looking like an idiot.
 
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Hey all,

I want to start this off with saying that I like the game and find it playable enough to have fun and I definitely got my money worth out of it. But in the last year, or more like since the horizons release, I feel like I'm in a positon where I have to write this here even tough my career goal is in the same area. I don't want to be offensive or anything, but this completely irks me and I simply can't understand what I'm going to say here, so maybe I will get some enlightment here.

What is actually happening in your development process, Frontier? I simply can't follow what takes so much time with what you actually create. But lets go through it!

Easier things first: Galnet is empty. I recently had to visualize some thesis about how to engage your community to co-create content with you. It seems like you completely missed every potential for that, seeing as how most of Galnet right now are summarizations of different stuff. You care about lore? Well, there's not much anymore. This was different once. And, to top it off, you have to go through all that summarization which won't interest you in the slightest if you are keen on lore. Why is the state so barren? Where is a simple writer to write out snippets of a pre-determined story? Where are incentives for user-creations? It feels like such a missed opportunity.

2) Powerplay + Engineering: There's enough criticism out there. From the endless grindfest² of Powerplay to the PvP-Balance gap of Engineered/Unengineered and need to do grindfest material gathering. The latter was patched to be made easier, but its still concerning on how the first iteration even came about. But, as said, not going into depth here. Powerplay was a missed opportunity and Engineering feels like forcing horizon(planet)-content.

3) Holo-Me. Finally! We have our character creator! It's well done and the transitions are nice, cudos to the programmers/artists/sound-designers. But now, after waiting half a year... microtransactions! Not a single available tattoo? Completely basic suits? I don't care you want to earn money with microtransactions, but to bring out such a anticipated feature with, in the end, half baked customization, feels awkward. It's a nice character creator, but it feels like theres not much, especially due to face limitation. I know, we don't see the character anyways, but if we already have a face-concentration, why are there so few options available? Like mentioned, no tatoos, no... future piercings, whatever the heck you can want. Again, it feels somewhat barebones and too limited. Why do I have to pay for some black ink in my face? Why are there just simple color variations of the most basic outfit? You really couldn't offer at least some *simple* alternatives? It feels... well, like a missed opportunity?

4) Multi-Crew. Yay, a friend can fly around with me! And... shoot some stuff with cannons. I really don't know what I expected. It's somewhat fun, but in the end... its... well... a missed opportunity for something more.

5) Planets. The current iterations we have. The great driving around on planets with some bases. So you obviously have a procedural generation for the planets. Who basically all look the same as they are moons. And don't feel different... as they are moons. It's fine. I accept that. But again, everything feels absolutely the same. There's no difference from Moon A to B in terms of gameplay except some materials you actually scope (and the ruins-events). Missions on moons feel barebones too. Why aren't, at least in the bubble near populated systems, some generated human bases with turrets and protective fliers? Or anything at all. To not make it barebones. Because again, it feels... like a missed opportunity.

6) Ship Customization. Well, I literally can't do anything without buying anything out of the store with additional money. Theres not even anything ingame to obtain to customize my ship. What is this? Why, just why, aren't there some goals? Your playerbase is big. There aren't only grinders who try this game out. You have to hook people to want some progression other than money(and thus ships). Its like the most basic concept one can think of. What happened here? Its, again, a missed opportunity and makes it feel even more cash-shoppy.

7) Background-Simulation. What is actually happening here? In the terms of "what does it actually do" ?. What is your code doing? We obviously don't have something persistent thats interacting with the players at all. We have some number tweeking with wares and minor faction influences and their spreading. Different people will have their own reasons to join powerplay and help minor factions, mainly due to roleplay reasons. That's cool, at least. But the Background-Simulation really feels to fall flat and to serve no real purpose concerning wares and trade.
But Minor Factions! I can have my own? AWESOME. Except for people who have to wait over 3 months to have it inserted. I simply can NOT comprehend how the insertion can last this long. I'm still waiting and I have no problems doing so, but others clearly want them integrated. So, you obviously have lists every time of, lets say, 30 new minor factions of players. You can't tell me that you can't take one guy after checking availability to simply insert them into the game for the next update. There has to be some interface in your code for this. There must be. I can't believe that you are writing code snippets for every insertion. Where is the automated system after accepting and checking? (Or even accepting and checking too).

8) 3rd-party Tools. Half of the time when trading I have to check on another website OUTSIDE the game where I can get something. Why? Its some g time in the future where everything is connected in some way(see Galnet) - But there is no ingame function to actually check that stuff? This seems like the first thing stations would want to publish to sell goods and get more traffic. Not to mention resource-route determination. Why do I have to switch OUT of the game to get stuff done efficiently? You clearly want me to loose every immersion possible, right? Failed opportunity.

9) I had something here, but I don't remember because the forum deleted half of my post after submitting and I'm loosing my steam. Passengers, Pirate Interdactions, you name it. But it was something different. Anyways, I wanted to get at the following:

Something is clearly wrong. And I mean clearly! I don't know what part in your team screws up though. Something has to. All the time since horizons release and it basically still feels like the absolute same game for me. Some small additions, but nothing big. Everything underwhelming, awkward or too obstruse to not be worth the effort. Why? Is management forcing bad decisions about the team? Are your game designers strictly bad because the different game modules all seem so barebones? Are they maybe limited by upper management and thus can't create creatively?
Obviously you are doing bug fixing. And adding content. But its so slow! Its so barebones! It's so underwhelming! I feel disappointed after every patch. This is a feeling your customer should not have. And I simply don't know what you are doing that its ending up like this. Some problem area I think has to be identified. Hell, at the current rate I even suspect that most developers are at Planet Safari and Planet Coasters and this game is being done on the side for some money upkeep and future possibilities. What the hell has gone wrong that I am thinking of this possibility?

As I said, I didn't want to come off as offensive. But I also want to know what others feel about this issue.
I will be going to bed so I won't comment immediately, but thanks for reading!
Fly safe! o7

Here's my take.

1) Yeah, i think Galnet could do with more content.

2) Powerplay - pantsplay. Engineers - great. Its been a real boon.

3) Fine with it. Paid cosmetics, fits with the original plan.

4) Yeah, i think we all wanted a little more although its ok for the moment, assuming they build on it going forward. Ideally i would like to see the ability to launch multiple SRVs with friends.

5) Lots of variation, but its realistic. Lots of planets do look similar because we only have certain types of planets. But if you do pay attention and go looking, you can find some really nice planetary features. This is definitely something that is going to be built on, and what i don't want is fantasy planets, i want them based on scientific principles. Even when FD get around to doing life on planets, i want it scientifically based, not Spore or NMS like creations walking around.

6) Again, fine. Customization was always going to be a paid for thing. The only thing i think would be fair would be a basic free ship name planet and tag. Possibly in comic sans.

7) The BGS is actually quite a complicated beast bit with many features. The delays with minor factions - yeah, it would be nice if they could speed up the process. Let's say once per month they do a check of the latest applications. This then needs to go through a primary check to make sure they meet requirements (including things like is the target system allowed and viable, etc). Then it needs to go to the management perhaps for approval. Then finally to the devs to insert when they get the chance, probably quite low priority, and i guess it needs at least to wait for a server reset (weekly PP cycle). So i can see it easily up to 2 months for an application to go through even in best case. Perhaps FD can do something to streamline the process.

8) Some of the tools will never make it into game, because it would make things too easy. Like automated finding of trade route. Other things might make it into the game at some point. As a dev i might look at it like "well, its available out of game thanks to those guys, so the need to implement the same feature in game is low priority". Sure, it would be nice for some things, but i can't imagine most of it being high priority.

9) Heh, i know how you feel. When i'm having a good rant there is always something i forget.

As for the general comment, something being wrong. Possibly. Even probable. Often happens in big teams. There can be a disconnect between what different people and roles want and expect. I can only presume FD do what they can to improve their internal processes to the best of their abilities as they evolve. At the end of the day, there is nothing we can do about it. And if the problem is at the very top, then nothing is going to change and you either will have to accept that or move on.

Personally though, my outlook isn't so bleak. I see issues, but overall, the game is developing and quite well. I've facepalmed at some things, and scratched my head at others (how can any project suffer so many regressions? Yeah, they happen, but every single release has several major regressions... that to me points to issues with code control and how they are merging branches etc). But in general, very happy with the game, and each major patch always adds something new and enjoyable for me.
 
I grew to live with all the inconsistencies and bare-bone features. I still like to play around with this shiny first person fly around the galaxy nearly simulation and nearly multiplayer enviroment thing this "game" seems to represent.

Yeah, I’ve learned to make my own content for Elite of sorts. I like to explore but exploration hasn’t really been improved much since 1.0 so I create my own missions and goals and set out to do them in game. The problem is, due to no new mechanics and very anemic content, my creativity is running out. I’ve been playing Elite in various versions since 1984, but if Frontier doesn’t develop for exploration soon I’ll be putting the game aside most likely. I’m hoping that S3 changes this for me.

I'm a software developer myself, working on enterprise software solutions right now, and honestly I don't know why it's taking so awfully long time for ED development. All features are incomplete, every update are more bugged than previous and with amounts of money we're pumping in game and the size of the team which working on ED it looks the more and more hilarious. On background of Planet Coaster which is good implemented, feature rich and polished, Elite looks like an unloved adopted child. With current development rates and numbers of features I'm not sure anymore if Horizons has worth the price I've paid for it. I've expected way more and expected it to be implemented way better.

Development for Elite has noticeably slowed, it’s undeniable. We know there haven’t been lay offs, so there are two possible reasons for this, either:


  1. Frontier moved devs off of Elite and onto PC and the new mystery franchise. They deny they’ve done this, but it’s possible.
  2. Frontier’s Elite team is mostly dedicated to future content stuff behind the scenes that we just don’t know about due to their secret roadmap policy.

One of those two is the reality, we just don’t know which one. Short of a third possibility, that they just aren’t working very hard anymore, but I’d like to think that’s not a realistic option.
 
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Hey all,

I want to start this off with saying that I like the game and find it playable enough to have fun and I definitely got my money worth out of it. But in the last year, or more like since the horizons release, I feel like I'm in a positon where I have to write this here even tough my career goal is in the same area. I don't want to be offensive or anything, but this completely irks me and I simply can't understand what I'm going to say here, so maybe I will get some enlightment here.

What is actually happening in your development process, Frontier? I simply can't follow what takes so much time with what you actually create. But lets go through it!

Easier things first: Galnet is empty. I recently had to visualize some thesis about how to engage your community to co-create content with you. It seems like you completely missed every potential for that, seeing as how most of Galnet right now are summarizations of different stuff. You care about lore? Well, there's not much anymore. This was different once. And, to top it off, you have to go through all that summarization which won't interest you in the slightest if you are keen on lore. Why is the state so barren? Where is a simple writer to write out snippets of a pre-determined story? Where are incentives for user-creations? It feels like such a missed opportunity.

2) Powerplay + Engineering: There's enough criticism out there. From the endless grindfest² of Powerplay to the PvP-Balance gap of Engineered/Unengineered and need to do grindfest material gathering. The latter was patched to be made easier, but its still concerning on how the first iteration even came about. But, as said, not going into depth here. Powerplay was a missed opportunity and Engineering feels like forcing horizon(planet)-content.

3) Holo-Me. Finally! We have our character creator! It's well done and the transitions are nice, cudos to the programmers/artists/sound-designers. But now, after waiting half a year... microtransactions! Not a single available tattoo? Completely basic suits? I don't care you want to earn money with microtransactions, but to bring out such a anticipated feature with, in the end, half baked customization, feels awkward. It's a nice character creator, but it feels like theres not much, especially due to face limitation. I know, we don't see the character anyways, but if we already have a face-concentration, why are there so few options available? Like mentioned, no tatoos, no... future piercings, whatever the heck you can want. Again, it feels somewhat barebones and too limited. Why do I have to pay for some black ink in my face? Why are there just simple color variations of the most basic outfit? You really couldn't offer at least some *simple* alternatives? It feels... well, like a missed opportunity?

4) Multi-Crew. Yay, a friend can fly around with me! And... shoot some stuff with cannons. I really don't know what I expected. It's somewhat fun, but in the end... its... well... a missed opportunity for something more.

5) Planets. The current iterations we have. The great driving around on planets with some bases. So you obviously have a procedural generation for the planets. Who basically all look the same as they are moons. And don't feel different... as they are moons. It's fine. I accept that. But again, everything feels absolutely the same. There's no difference from Moon A to B in terms of gameplay except some materials you actually scope (and the ruins-events). Missions on moons feel barebones too. Why aren't, at least in the bubble near populated systems, some generated human bases with turrets and protective fliers? Or anything at all. To not make it barebones. Because again, it feels... like a missed opportunity.

6) Ship Customization. Well, I literally can't do anything without buying anything out of the store with additional money. Theres not even anything ingame to obtain to customize my ship. What is this? Why, just why, aren't there some goals? Your playerbase is big. There aren't only grinders who try this game out. You have to hook people to want some progression other than money(and thus ships). Its like the most basic concept one can think of. What happened here? Its, again, a missed opportunity and makes it feel even more cash-shoppy.

7) Background-Simulation. What is actually happening here? In the terms of "what does it actually do" ?. What is your code doing? We obviously don't have something persistent thats interacting with the players at all. We have some number tweeking with wares and minor faction influences and their spreading. Different people will have their own reasons to join powerplay and help minor factions, mainly due to roleplay reasons. That's cool, at least. But the Background-Simulation really feels to fall flat and to serve no real purpose concerning wares and trade.
But Minor Factions! I can have my own? AWESOME. Except for people who have to wait over 3 months to have it inserted. I simply can NOT comprehend how the insertion can last this long. I'm still waiting and I have no problems doing so, but others clearly want them integrated. So, you obviously have lists every time of, lets say, 30 new minor factions of players. You can't tell me that you can't take one guy after checking availability to simply insert them into the game for the next update. There has to be some interface in your code for this. There must be. I can't believe that you are writing code snippets for every insertion. Where is the automated system after accepting and checking? (Or even accepting and checking too).

8) 3rd-party Tools. Half of the time when trading I have to check on another website OUTSIDE the game where I can get something. Why? Its some g time in the future where everything is connected in some way(see Galnet) - But there is no ingame function to actually check that stuff? This seems like the first thing stations would want to publish to sell goods and get more traffic. Not to mention resource-route determination. Why do I have to switch OUT of the game to get stuff done efficiently? You clearly want me to loose every immersion possible, right? Failed opportunity.

9) I had something here, but I don't remember because the forum deleted half of my post after submitting and I'm loosing my steam. Passengers, Pirate Interdactions, you name it. But it was something different. Anyways, I wanted to get at the following:

Something is clearly wrong. And I mean clearly! I don't know what part in your team screws up though. Something has to. All the time since horizons release and it basically still feels like the absolute same game for me. Some small additions, but nothing big. Everything underwhelming, awkward or too obstruse to not be worth the effort. Why? Is management forcing bad decisions about the team? Are your game designers strictly bad because the different game modules all seem so barebones? Are they maybe limited by upper management and thus can't create creatively?
Obviously you are doing bug fixing. And adding content. But its so slow! Its so barebones! It's so underwhelming! I feel disappointed after every patch. This is a feeling your customer should not have. And I simply don't know what you are doing that its ending up like this. Some problem area I think has to be identified. Hell, at the current rate I even suspect that most developers are at Planet Safari and Planet Coasters and this game is being done on the side for some money upkeep and future possibilities. What the hell has gone wrong that I am thinking of this possibility?

As I said, I didn't want to come off as offensive. But I also want to know what others feel about this issue.
I will be going to bed so I won't comment immediately, but thanks for reading!
Fly safe! o7

All valid points, Commander! [yesnod]
 
On the background simulation -

I watched a q&a video with Dav Stott, the BGS wizard recently. It was amazing, the stuff that's actually going on is great.

And the whole time I'm thinking - this is great stuff Dav, when does the player get to see all this cool stuff going on?
 

Jon474

Banned
Sadly, I have to agree with the OP.

Being selfish, and being 40K LY outside the Bubble, I mainly wish planets and moons and astronomical stuff had more variety and held more surprises. Some of the planetary graphics are fantastic, but whilst most are impressive technically, they are endlessly, desperately, repetitive in their presentation.

Here is a fantastic GG, but it only "looks" good. Why can't I swoop in on its atmosphere? Why can I not see the clouds whirling and boiling? For hundreds and hundreds of jumps the systems I encounter are essentially rinse and repeat versions of themselves. Yes, space will be repetitive in its details...but surely not identical?

VslfFcP.png

Myself, I have little time for PowerPlay, Engineers (I'm still in an unmodded ship), or trading (which was fun for a bit) and I don't actively seek out pew-pew...but I happily accept that those who do these things should expect to feel the same way about them that I want to feel about exploration.

Flying sadly
Jon
T-6E
 
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Agree with one or two bits but largely not. Not really sure why it all has to be said again and at great length. But people are entitled to their opinion
 
I prefer the traditional term of "Apologist". If the world was left up to them, we would be drowning in sewage, air pollution and pseudo science bull crap. While they go on their merry way pretending everything is honeysuckle and roses .... Wait a minute! .. ;)

Sounds like we are from the same generation? (Born in the late 50s)

At least we got a good 40 years when this world and planet still truly rocked! Boy I sure miss those days!

Born in the late 40's raised on Buck Rogers (and Duck Dodger) & Flash Gordon. Still love a good Scy Fy flick ..... I'm too new to make an objective comment here but OP seems to have his thoughts together. While I'm still trying to figure half (actually more than half) of this out I am enjoying the game. As for the comment of being afraid, I'm not sure (that new) if I am or not. But if the Dev's have gone off track I can't see any good in the future of E D that we don't have right now. And I seriously hope we are all wrong.

Chief
 
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