OP has a few points +1
It feels like someone is doing their job wrong
- Thread starter Silvere
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11 AM UTC every day... not real time, and don't change much actually... if you think about it BGS is a extreme complicated thing with very few getting out of it...
What's the difference between a dictator and a corporate system?
Aside from special states (boom,lockdown war & etc...) and system being anarchy or not.There's little to none things that change.
Markets are driven by economy type. But you don't really feel on a Agricultural system. or a mining system...
I mean when i think about a mining system I imagine supercruise filled with miners traveling back and forth to station, wings of traders ships (imagine seeing 3 T-7 in wing with mining lasers) , some pirates roving around, police...
But what do we see?
Some random ships...Some miners and traders....Cruise ships (lol!)... Bounty hunters... Pirates.
Dont feel like I'm in a diferent kind of economy... every place looks the same from ships wise perpective.
And it's the same of almost every system you get it...
verminstar
Banned
Repped and fully agree...however its also a wasted effort because the one thing frontier does very well indeed is ignore their playerbase ^
Blackcompany
Banned
Well said, OP. Have Rep.
I think this year is going to tell the tale of Elite: Dangerous. Either we get a feature complete, fully fleshed our Expansion release that was going to be Season 3, and we get it in time for the Holidays, in working order...or, we dont.
And if we don't...well, I think its curtains. Slow, agonizingly slow, curtains. But curtains, nonetheless. Failure to release a major content update, with actual game play enhancements and additions, this year, would probably not kill the game outright. But it would put it on the path to doom for certain.
I hope there's a team hidden away somewhere, working on that release now. Because its needed. Necessary, even, for the longevity of the game. But lets not forget that this game is coming up on 3 years old, and its 4th of development. And its not exactly been a cash cow. So dont be surprised if this trickle of disparate add ons is all the now very small team can manage.
I think this year is going to tell the tale of Elite: Dangerous. Either we get a feature complete, fully fleshed our Expansion release that was going to be Season 3, and we get it in time for the Holidays, in working order...or, we dont.
And if we don't...well, I think its curtains. Slow, agonizingly slow, curtains. But curtains, nonetheless. Failure to release a major content update, with actual game play enhancements and additions, this year, would probably not kill the game outright. But it would put it on the path to doom for certain.
I hope there's a team hidden away somewhere, working on that release now. Because its needed. Necessary, even, for the longevity of the game. But lets not forget that this game is coming up on 3 years old, and its 4th of development. And its not exactly been a cash cow. So dont be surprised if this trickle of disparate add ons is all the now very small team can manage.
I would like to have a patch that only fixes issues. No new features, just a fix pack.
E.g. I want 30 players in one instance without problems. I want sound working in CZ with engineers as well. I would also have better network stability. Just like in all my other multi player games.
Btw completely annoying is the trade simulation these days. It makes absolutely no sense to trade anymore.
Btw "The Engineers" killed our clan and I think really a lot of people left the game as they saw what time you have to invest to build a competitive ship for PvP. Miner 500t, fly 5k LY, grind 25 modular terminalks here, search 4 hours for any other commodity there, and get some random results.
When you want something new - we wait for pirate game play. There is a good thread here at forums.
I don't play Multicrew, I dont play shipfighters, I try to avoid to drive SRV as best as I can, I don't want so see thumbnails of faces in my communication channel.
I don't have a problem with cosmetically DLC. Actually I don't care.
But I would be glad to pay 10 bucks per month if Frontier could make some better net code and host some better servers.
E.g. I want 30 players in one instance without problems. I want sound working in CZ with engineers as well. I would also have better network stability. Just like in all my other multi player games.
Btw completely annoying is the trade simulation these days. It makes absolutely no sense to trade anymore.
Btw "The Engineers" killed our clan and I think really a lot of people left the game as they saw what time you have to invest to build a competitive ship for PvP. Miner 500t, fly 5k LY, grind 25 modular terminalks here, search 4 hours for any other commodity there, and get some random results.
When you want something new - we wait for pirate game play. There is a good thread here at forums.
I don't play Multicrew, I dont play shipfighters, I try to avoid to drive SRV as best as I can, I don't want so see thumbnails of faces in my communication channel.
I don't have a problem with cosmetically DLC. Actually I don't care.
But I would be glad to pay 10 bucks per month if Frontier could make some better net code and host some better servers.
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TL DR for those who don't want to go through each post
"Refine the core gameplay before adding more stuff"
"Refine the core gameplay before adding more stuff"
I've been putting in the hours got some good shops earned lots of cash just getting back from the 100s of jumps (5000ly) so that my python is super fast, have all mods to 5 on everything else.
But no plot to follow means once I get all the engineers and have modded my ships to their max then it's not going to hold my attention for much longer. Better missions will make it less of a grind in the long run, a good plot and some infighting between imps and feds and things might get spicy.
But no plot to follow means once I get all the engineers and have modded my ships to their max then it's not going to hold my attention for much longer. Better missions will make it less of a grind in the long run, a good plot and some infighting between imps and feds and things might get spicy.
Yep it seems the worm is starting to turn. I LOVE this came but these are all valid points, and many many people are starting to stop laughing about it and starting to get annoyed. I have 4 friends who are not going to play again unless there is substantial CONTENT improvment, not features.
I want permenance. If it has to be a feature let us build things of permenance.
if not let us make a difference, not just blaze our own trail. I got an advertisement email from FDev last week where it used the word "dominate" - if only. Blaze your own trail in anonimity. unless you grief. Too long now i have been complaining about Crime and Punishment, building in permenance, and the criminal lack of Thargoids to kill. Season 3 is make or break for me. I deliberately chose not to buy life time pass so i could vote with my wallet. The time is approaching when i will stop buying ship skins etc and i will sit on my hands with major udates too untill i see some of these things being worked on.
I am getting tired now, and lets not forget the miss selling of season 2 with its massive delay to what was originally advertised - excusers and apologists shut down the argument but we have only just had 2.3 and this season started on the 16th on December 2015 and promised to be finished by now. It is not a problem of issues here and there, but one thing compounding another. I think the guys are sperb at FDev but vision to design to execution is not gelling correctly. And, there is a hideous lack of listening to the customer. Conan Exiles, has taken the customers desire to heart, an it is paying dividends. Yes it is a mysoginisic chauvinist environment but it is turing their company around. We dont want the extreme testosterone here but we need to be listend too, and really soon or this is going to go off the rails. I got in at premium beta and the features in this game are superb, buggy but superb. I play as much as i can and i will ontinue to play and help out with the community, but this needs to be said and listened to.
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Yup, another +1, OP.
I'm still of the opinion that since the delayed 2.1 patch, the development of ED is being run down to a conclusion at the end of this 'season'. Financial reasons, pleasing shareholders and investors...who knows?
I'm also not convinced of FDev talk of further expansion... I think the body language of David Braben in particular during recent video interviews says a lot more than his mouth and vivid imagination does...
I'd like to be wrong, but gut feeling tells me different.
I'm still of the opinion that since the delayed 2.1 patch, the development of ED is being run down to a conclusion at the end of this 'season'. Financial reasons, pleasing shareholders and investors...who knows?
I'm also not convinced of FDev talk of further expansion... I think the body language of David Braben in particular during recent video interviews says a lot more than his mouth and vivid imagination does...
I'd like to be wrong, but gut feeling tells me different.
Focus on console means only one obvious major investor.... and the money dictates what is going to happen.
I played on Xbox for over a year...and certainly, popping in to the Xbox section of the forum reads a lot differently from here. Improved graphics, transitions, planetary textures....and a working galmap and system map. Apart from a major issue where Multipew locks the game forcing a total deletion of all save files and key bindings to make it work again... they're quite effusive over how good it is.
Almost tempted to fire up the Xbox again [squeeeee]
Ugh... well, it's the first time I've regret I've bought Horizons. I don't own Xbox and don't want to buy it to be able to play game adequately and without bugs.
In the first place because I'm playing with HOTAS setup and Xbox doesn't support any.
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You dont need to listen to the players and all that noise if you have a good vision and plan to get there. Nobody I think honestly believes that Fdev's plan is a good one to get to any vision that involves players still playing the game in 10 years currently.
Maybe their problem with listening to the community is that they've created a game that can't create a community. They've thrown hardcore, casual, single player, and multiplayer gamers into this made-up reality where they can all do the same stuff and somehow are all going to be happy with those implementations. They're guaranteed to not. But the solution isn't picking one or the other and isn't in continuing to aimlessly try and balance the game the way they currently do. The answer is you silo in-game occupations and activity to certain gamer types. Casual gamers like farming ...doing simple easy tasks a bit here and there over time to achieve some goal. So make one of the things you can do in the game cater to that, like certain mining or exploration. Hardcore gamers could be drawn to the ingame occupations that require honing skill and researching etc, so they could cater bounty hunting / piracy and trading to that. Instead of having to buffer the game's short-comings with killing tons of ships to accomplish meaningful results, you could make it hard enough that killing 1 ship would take a while and be worth a lot. Allowing you to remove and re-purpose the nonsense aspects of the game like Resource extraction sites and magical piracy interdictions. Something along the lines of that, where rather than try and make all occupations in the game cater to all player groups, you can still have a game where there's something for everyone but that the roles are aligned logically to certain gamer archetypes. Not impossibly one-sided but weighted heavily so that you're not compromising gameplay for everyone and not having every change result in half the people against it and half for it.
I dont know. It feels like an extremely backwards way of operating how they've been doing things. Flashy new things make sales, but word of mouth makes more sales and if that word is that the core game...the thing you'll be doing the most of all the time is boring and repetitive and ultimately pointless, then I'm not sure how they expect to make it long enough to even think about walking around and atmospheric flight (which I assume is 3 years away at minimum).
Maybe their problem with listening to the community is that they've created a game that can't create a community. They've thrown hardcore, casual, single player, and multiplayer gamers into this made-up reality where they can all do the same stuff and somehow are all going to be happy with those implementations. They're guaranteed to not. But the solution isn't picking one or the other and isn't in continuing to aimlessly try and balance the game the way they currently do. The answer is you silo in-game occupations and activity to certain gamer types. Casual gamers like farming ...doing simple easy tasks a bit here and there over time to achieve some goal. So make one of the things you can do in the game cater to that, like certain mining or exploration. Hardcore gamers could be drawn to the ingame occupations that require honing skill and researching etc, so they could cater bounty hunting / piracy and trading to that. Instead of having to buffer the game's short-comings with killing tons of ships to accomplish meaningful results, you could make it hard enough that killing 1 ship would take a while and be worth a lot. Allowing you to remove and re-purpose the nonsense aspects of the game like Resource extraction sites and magical piracy interdictions. Something along the lines of that, where rather than try and make all occupations in the game cater to all player groups, you can still have a game where there's something for everyone but that the roles are aligned logically to certain gamer archetypes. Not impossibly one-sided but weighted heavily so that you're not compromising gameplay for everyone and not having every change result in half the people against it and half for it.
I dont know. It feels like an extremely backwards way of operating how they've been doing things. Flashy new things make sales, but word of mouth makes more sales and if that word is that the core game...the thing you'll be doing the most of all the time is boring and repetitive and ultimately pointless, then I'm not sure how they expect to make it long enough to even think about walking around and atmospheric flight (which I assume is 3 years away at minimum).
It always feels like a universe written by one person. They need to let the community help them flesh out the game with epic stories and articles/advertisements etc. I think that would allow the artists and programmers to get back to focusing on gameplay. Of course it would all have to be moderated but that's more ideal than what it currently is right?
They are trying too hard to create the feeling of a real society but refuse to let a real society create the feeling for them.
They are trying too hard to create the feeling of a real society but refuse to let a real society create the feeling for them.
Sadly I have to agree with the OP.
The unfortunate truth is that nearly all of the features in game are "placeholder" and have been since release. I bought into that back then as I was impressed with the base game, flight model, basic mechanics and thought it had huge potential but gave up on it a while ago.
Look at the basic game play elements
Missions are still an RNG mess - better than they were but still miles from what they should be by now
Exploration is not even bare bones in it's implementation and has been totally ignored by the dev team
Trading kinda works but then again kinda doesn't and there is zero depth....system in famine state = tonnes of food in the station at a low price?
Combat is probably the one thing they have got right - but even that lacks any meaning - kill 1000 pirates/members from one NPC faction and there is no consequence
Those are the basics and they have barely been developed. As for PP, CQC, Engineers, Billions of empty moons to drive around, multicrew with nothing to do etc....again none of it is finished or particularly well implemented.
I get that it's in development and it's a 10 year project but it has to work as intended at some point before those 10yrs are up.....surely?
The unfortunate truth is that nearly all of the features in game are "placeholder" and have been since release. I bought into that back then as I was impressed with the base game, flight model, basic mechanics and thought it had huge potential but gave up on it a while ago.
Look at the basic game play elements
Missions are still an RNG mess - better than they were but still miles from what they should be by now
Exploration is not even bare bones in it's implementation and has been totally ignored by the dev team
Trading kinda works but then again kinda doesn't and there is zero depth....system in famine state = tonnes of food in the station at a low price?
Combat is probably the one thing they have got right - but even that lacks any meaning - kill 1000 pirates/members from one NPC faction and there is no consequence
Those are the basics and they have barely been developed. As for PP, CQC, Engineers, Billions of empty moons to drive around, multicrew with nothing to do etc....again none of it is finished or particularly well implemented.
I get that it's in development and it's a 10 year project but it has to work as intended at some point before those 10yrs are up.....surely?
For space trucking and BGS/economy, i remember when playing Jumpgate (an old space MMO, very nice) the economy was mostly player driven, with planets and stations "eating" resources to produce more stuff that you could then trade again, etc. I remember also that this was one of the rare games where your cargo was in VOLUME not in WEIGHT so your ship had a fixed cargo volume, but taking Iridium vs taking Aluminium clearly didnt end up with the same weight... Trying to fly a huge Iridium cargo was fun times, also these had a good impact on the economy, you could see your loadout added to the station resources, then being consumed by processes.
None of this happens in ED, which is disappointing.
None of this happens in ED, which is disappointing.
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I agree wholeheartedly with the OP..even giving FDev the benefit of doubt releasing the update before closing for the holidays sadly will bite them when they're back in the office tomorrow. I would like to think they released it as a gesture to give us something to play , but releasing it with the amount of bugs will do little to help with customer relations. The amount of bug reports and complaints seem at an all time high.
I truly feel for those players who haven't been able to play since the update..I'm hoping for a patch before the end of the week . I can live in hope eh....it would be nice if we could actually play the game as it is, let alone expecting new content.
I truly feel for those players who haven't been able to play since the update..I'm hoping for a patch before the end of the week . I can live in hope eh....it would be nice if we could actually play the game as it is, let alone expecting new content.
There's a fourth possibility, and that's the fact that as new systems become legacy, they get more expensive to maintain, because under the covers, enough of the code is sh*t to make it harder and harder to fix bugs and add new features without causing new ones.
I've worked in software for nearly 30 years, and I know what it's like to do it wrong and right. Currently I run a small software company with another guy, and we have a dev team of two. When we find something that's wrong, we rip it out, do the redesign where we need to, and consequently have the same flexible design platform we had 10 years ago. But that must be nearly impossible with a large team. And even more so with a game that's intended to be around for a long time - I can't see how the codebase isn't fundamentally doomed, and I think we're seeing the consequences of that already.
It's a shame, but there it is. So many stupid little details where you just have to suspend your disbelief, you wonder whether any of them actually play the game at all. FWIW, I've been playing it since not long after v1 came out, and I stumped up, what was it, £120?, for the unlimited upgrades option.
Very much agree with the OP.
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Hey Chief!
Well... Close enough at this point in time eh? We're both OLD! lol
As for the game... It has one of the steeper learning curves out there today. But... It just takes time more than intense study to get it all down cold. Just keep playing and enjoying it, and you will see!
At least from your standpoint, many of the problems the vets are yelling about won't really interfere with your enjoyment for at least a few months. (GMAP Pointer Bug Accepted) And maybe by then, we will be on 2.3.03!
Sometimes I really wish we had that Off-Line option, so I could hold onto a build I had no serious issues with (2.2.03) and just play that offline for a few months until the new shiney version gets all the kinks worked out.
We tried really hard to prevent a lot of this during the 2.3 Beta, but Frontier was in too much of a hurry to get it out the door, obviously. I don't know anyone involved with the 2.3 Beta that wanted it released to the public when it was. Myself included.
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