Lol, most of the stuff people here feel entitled to have been explicitly and clearly mentioned over and over and over again to not be in full release, and to come bit-by-bit in the many years following release. Again: feel more than welcome to accuse me of white knighting or other personal insults as is popular here, and feel free to be as unhappy as you want to be and entitled to whatever you want to. My position is that that only leads to frustration, rage and general disappointment in a time where we have a spacegame that is much better than until recently people could have hoped for. Your choice.
It feels like someone is doing their job wrong
- Thread starter Silvere
- Start date
- Status
Lol, most of the stuff people here feel entitled to have been explicitly and clearly mentioned over and over and over again to not be in full release, and to come bit-by-bit in the many years following release. Again: feel more than welcome to accuse me of white knighting or other personal insults as is popular here, and feel free to be as unhappy as you want to be and entitled to whatever you want to. My position is that that only leads to frustration, rage and general disappointment in a time where we have a spacegame that is much better than until recently people could have hoped for. Your choice.
OK. But this also means we can lower our expectations - they basically can stop developing the game right now without having to deliver more stuff, right?
And the DDF is why I don't get the negative attitude towards Sandro. He was part of the DDF discussions and came up with some of the proposals that were ratified by those in the community (I presume, I didn't have access to the active discussions only the archive).
It's only the translating from the design documentation to detailed implementation plans where things have gone drastically wrong.
They also said it will take years to get there, and that they are going to sell expansions to achieve that.
And thus, if it is ascertained that a buck is being passed, there is where it stops.
And.....?
Those of us that paid for the LEP, or earned it at KS or Alpha backing, would be quite disappointed with that, without a doubt.
I believe in the long-term vision for ED and I recognize some sunk cost fallacy goes into that feeling. Still, I try to be optimistic that all of this is leading somewhere. I just wish we had a clearer vision of where that was.
Blackcompany
Banned
This is, in a nutshell, exactly the Problem.
A key ingredient in success, is playing to your strengths.
Elite fails utterly in this regard.
Time spent in SC needs a drastic reduction. This is NOT a strong point. Exponential increase to acceleration is badly needed.
We should drop from SC a minimum of 20km from any station, for security reasons. Then, we could fly along with other traffic the remaining distance.
Hugging larger ships could help us hide from scanning. As could just blending into the queue. This would allow more interaction with real traffic, in real space.
Likewise, Derailed Surface scans in Normal space should collect details for additional payouts. They could also allow us to deploy satellites in orbit, creating Tourist and mission beacons, or gathering planet data over time for a set duration based on Sat size, that would pay out gradually. We could even have Satellite deployment mission options.
More bases are needed in Rings and asteroid fields. Places where normal space flight is required. Playing UP SC and playing DOWN the flight model, is a BAD idea.
Your normal space flight model is an enormous strength. Play it up. Time spent in SC is basically a Wait Wall. You want to absolutely minimize this asap. It really bores a lot of players.
The problem is that the DDF, like current Star Citizen, allowed for unlimited daydreaming/theorycrafting. It didnt matter how often FD said those big features would come in later, paid-for, expensions (heck, what did people think the LEP was about?!), many still had these odd fantasies about a mystery hidden dev-build just before 1.0 went live. Why? Because they just wanted it badly.
Many just cannot accept their dreams wont happen. So they just project their dreams on Project X, then get upset, rage, insult and move on to Project Y. Repeat until death. Apparently that cycle is preferable to many over simply having fun with the games we currently have. So Boo FD, Boo Sandro, boo everyone, if only this or that would happen all the Magical Potential Which Is Clearly There would spring forward and everything would be awesome and perfect and we'd never need another game ever again.
X-Terminator
Banned
Good criticism never hurt and is a true reflection. It seems FD are a small team on E
D and just getting the game to actually perform smoothly on the many servers has took time. Although things must soon start coming together with content. Hell, even Star Citizen with all the money more than NASA haven't even released anything yet!
I wished we could get more DEVs working on creativity. The storylines are very meek really. It needs inviting us into these places as does ranking to unlock permits yet there should be much more to discover.
D and just getting the game to actually perform smoothly on the many servers has took time. Although things must soon start coming together with content. Hell, even Star Citizen with all the money more than NASA haven't even released anything yet!I wished we could get more DEVs working on creativity. The storylines are very meek really. It needs inviting us into these places as does ranking to unlock permits yet there should be much more to discover.
Ohhh, this sounds like an absolutely great game. Pity you failed to mention the minute details of missions feeling like they revolve around watching a loading screen for 90% of the time or looking for some RNGenerated thing (kill n of X in Y time, where X hardly ever spawns and you have no solid information where to look in the first place), discouraging coop PvE features by means of gimping payouts or outright lacking support for the feature (wing missions anyone?), omitting social features like proper inter-instance global and system chat, failing to provide player group functionality, wasting player time with RNGenerated missions that don't even fill fraction of their potential cargo hold reliably which leads to such attrocities as the mode-hopping and board refreshing, wasting player time on potential RNGineered module downgrades as reward for substantial player time investment, wasting player time by means of having no crucial information available ingame about availability of wares and prices. Did I mention watching oh so many loading screens in order to drive home how big the game is?
You know, what you describe above sounds splendid as backdrop for a game on paper. You only forget to describe the game. The "what do you do" and "how do you do it?". Those minute details that make or break the game design.
Last edited:
Blackcompany
Banned
That's just it though, Aunt. They aren't going to GET that time, if they don't up the quality quickly.
They CANNOT sell another season of "coming soon." They know it. We know it. They know we know it. You can bet that, if they even thought a sufficient base of potential buyers Actually existed, they'd have done it by now.
That base is gone. The good will is squandered.
Season 3 NEEDS to be a full featured, fleshed out, feature complete expansion. It needs new game play. New depth. It needs the DDF stuff. And worst of all, it basically HAS to happen in the 7 months between now, and the Holiday sale season. Cause if we reach peak Steam Sales with no more game play than we have now, and this game goes on more back burners...It's not very likely to come off many of them again in 2018.
And this is IF other space sims don't overtake Elite this year. If THAT happens, this game is in real trouble.
FDev don't have the time cushion any longer. If they want new features over ten years, they need depth to those present this year. Fair or not, that's just the cold, hard reality of the situation.
Last edited:
Good criticism never hurt and is a true reflection. It seems FD are a small team on E
I wished we could get more DEVs working on creativity. The storylines are very meek really. It needs inviting us into these places as does ranking to unlock permits yet there should be much more to discover.
Truth in bold. The game should give me incentives and reasons. Not a hand-hold, per se, but a real reward for being that much more inquisitive, clever or persistent.
Another one who agrees with the OP.
The primary thing keeping me playing now is the awesome community and the playergroup I'm with. Without these, i would play the game a tiny fraction of the amount i currently do.
The primary thing keeping me playing now is the awesome community and the playergroup I'm with. Without these, i would play the game a tiny fraction of the amount i currently do.
Hi all, I've reopened the thread. Let's not drift too far away from the threads core subjects. Thanks!
Thank you Brett. This thread has been both an interesting discussion and on point for the most part, I’m glad to see it reopened.
I hope the management at Frontier is really taking notice of what the players want for the future of Elite, because time and time again this topic of core mechanic improvements comes up. On these forums, on other forums, on Reddit, on Steam, everywhere that Elite is discussed there is almost universal agreement that instead of focusing development on bolt-on features Frontier should be improving the core mechanics of the game, because it desperately needs it.
Exploration
Trading
Bounty Hunting
Piracy
And yes, even Combat
They all need improving, not so much by just adding disconnected content to them, but by improving the gameplay of them. CQC, Power Play, Multicrew, Wings, none of these major features did anything at all to help improve the core mechanics of the game, the foundation upon which the entire game relies upon, they are all disconnected from the main game. It’s that foundation, those core gameplay mechanics that every player makes use of, which needs serious and committed development attention. THAT will do far more to improve the game overall than any new shiny marketable bolt-on feature of the month could, because with a better and more robust core all new features down the road will be in a better position to succeed due to widened gameplay possibilities. Imagine Multicrew if trading and exploration actually had interactive gameplay mechanics to take advantage of, something for crews to do? Imagine Power Play if multiplayer wing missions existed? Imagine trading CG’s if traders had better in-game tools like what third party websites do now for them? Imagine bounty hunting if a C&P system was in place which allowed players to hunt and track down wanted players?
There is only one constant in the entire Universe, and that is change. It’s time for Frontier to change course, past time probably, but every new journey starts with a first step. I’m just hoping that Frontier actually takes that step.
You most likely never heard of it but just as an example:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/398170/
http://store.steampowered.com/app/71000/
These games are developed by a single man. Single, all alone! Yes, theirs graphics looks rude and primitive, but they have all gameplay possibilities which ED is only about to develop in the future (maybe), together with coop multiplayer and offline play. Only thing it's lacking it's Elite's breathtakingly beautiful graphics. Elite isn't such an unique spacegame which is "much better than until recently people could have hoped for". There is a lots of space games with great deep gameplay such as Evochron or X series, but they always lacking something. X series lacking a huge world and multiplayer. Evochron lacks beautiful graphics and sound. We're waiting from Elite to become the game which overcomes such limitations and have deep gameplay, beautiful graphics and multiplayer all at once. Currently after 4 years of development it have only beautiful graphics, astonishing sound, huge empty galaxy and partial multiplayer capabilities. The guy who's developing Evochron for same time implemented a whole new game - Evochron Legacy, all alone.
Last edited:
A lot of things in the game were thought to be placeholders for more robust features, not just by me, but by many players I have interacted with since launch. Seems like they are not intended to be placeholders though and are the final form of those features. It's a bit disappointing, like they went halfway there with some stuff and just decided that's good enough.
An example is how wars work. All the ships from two factions head out to a random spot in space and line up to shoot at each other, it's kinda funny isn't it? The effect a war has on the rest of the system is basically nil and it can be totally ignored by players if they don't care. It's also weird that these wars can happen over nothing and very frequently due to it being just about faction influence getting close and nothing else.
That is one feature which I would have *sworn* was a placeholder for something else a while back but it clearly is not.
An example is how wars work. All the ships from two factions head out to a random spot in space and line up to shoot at each other, it's kinda funny isn't it? The effect a war has on the rest of the system is basically nil and it can be totally ignored by players if they don't care. It's also weird that these wars can happen over nothing and very frequently due to it being just about faction influence getting close and nothing else.
That is one feature which I would have *sworn* was a placeholder for something else a while back but it clearly is not.
Last edited:
I've said for ages now that we need obvious links between Factions & Powers. Helping a Faction should aid its affiliated Power.....& Vice Versa. Likewise, if you're pledged to a Power, then certain Faction Missions should carry the Power-Play symbol....meaning that completing said mission should help your Pledged Power (or hurt an opposing faction) in some specific fashion (Preparation, Control, Fortification & Undermining) as well as earning you extra merits. In a similar fashion, systems that are in turmoil (Famine, Outbreak etc) should be much easier to take control of than strong systems (Boom, Expansion etc).
As a working example-lets say that there is an uncontrolled system that is currently suffering from an outbreak, & your pledged power has an affiliated Faction in that system. Such a system would require fewer points to prepare, & there might be donation missions & missions for delivery of medical cargo that have the Power Play symbol next to them. Completing missions like this will help your power to prepare that system for takeover, & earn you merits in the meantime. This would create much greater synergy between Power Play & the rest of the game, IMHO.
- - - Updated - - -
They may still be placeholders, just perhaps that they're waiting for the overhaul of military careers before changing Conflict Zones into something more solid.
Actually, I have it in my steam library. And it is a good example of what I said earlier: people take for granted what they have and demand stuff from other games. Evochron lacks WAY more than 'beautiful graphics' (and sound). The flight model is inferior, the planetary generation isn't even remotely close. Outfitting and customizing of ships isn't close, there are no meaningful reallife bodies to visit, whatever passes as BGS is way simpler, there is no equivalent of a real Open mode etc. Yes, its a cool series. The dude is epic and I wish the series the best.
In the end it also depends on what people want. Being able to land on Enceladus with VR/HOTAS with the Sidewinder flight model alone is an insane experience to many people who love space. To them, X-series or Evochron is prehistoric in comparison, its comparing Arma3 with the original wolfenstein. If you want a trade-empire, ED is pointless. If you want to land on atmo planets, you get to chose between NMS and Evochron (for now).
And thats the problem. People want and even expect/demand the Everything Spacegame. You wont get it. Not even with 150+ million and 400 employees in four different studios.
Last edited:
- Status