It feels like someone is doing their job wrong

[Martian Successor]

I think the main driving force behind us not having NPC crew, no NPC wingmen, etc is because of the human multi player vision of the game. They know if NPC's were added in this fashion, that even fewer players would use the multi player features. It's all about trying to shoehorn players into playing with other humans.

Then they really need to start working on the meaning of the words "multi-player". That means:
- Co-op missions
- In-game player group mechanics
- Team based content such as co-op strikes, raids, player owned stations, player owned capital ships, tangible player owned faction resources
- Player to player goods trading
- A player market where we can buy and sell to each other such things as Engineer micro materials and maybe even Engineered modules.

But there's no reason why we can't have a proper experience for lone players in amongst this. I mean games like Destiny and Star Wars The Old Republic manage it pretty well. In SWTOR you can have your own NPC crew but you remain an individual character/avatar who can team up with other human players whenever you wish - the same can be done here in ED with NPC crew. I also don't see why for example we couldn't have the NPC Nemesis system from Shadow of Mordor in amongst a proper multiplayer experience.

 

[Mengy]

To all this people asking for npcs crew, what exactly do they expect them to do? Buff stats?

If I had my way, they would both buff stats but also act as action modifiers of sorts. Think engineer blueprints that you can freely hire and fire instead of grinding for. Each crewmember could have one or more attributes taken from a pool of various things, stuff like:

• Combat Specialist
  • Faster reloading / recharging of weapons
  • Faster weapons fire rate
  • Improved gimbal tracking and accuracy
  • Improved turret tracking and accuracy
• Trading Specialist
  • Improve profit margins on selling goods
  • Improve profit margins on passenger missions
  • Improve passenger morale over time, only way to take passengers from unhappy back to happy state
  • Improve profit margins on black market transactions
• Science Specialist
  • Improve scanner speed
  • Increase scanner distance
  • Improve scanner angle
  • Improve FSD charge time
  • Reduce FSD cooldown period
• Engineer
  • Better energy usage
  • More efficient AFMU operation
  • Faster shield recharge rate
  • Allows repairing of power plant without a station

And this is just quickly off the top of my head. As more core game mechanics get added to things like exploration and trading these attributes could be vastly expanded upon. One of the biggest features of NPC crew would simply be to add atmosphere to our ship bridges by having people in the chairs, saying stuff with random voice lines preferably, even calling out system status and stuff. But the primary purpose of the stats they would bring would simply be to add a new level of minor customization to our ships, a layer on top of the engineers but without the huge grind.

There are tons of possibilities, but at least this could be something that ALL players could use, no matter what their play style or play mode is.

 

[Soopyyy]

Then they really need to start working on the meaning of the words "multi-player". That means:
- Co-op missions
- In-game player group mechanics
- Team based content such as co-op strikes, raids, player owned stations, player owned capital ships, tangible player owned faction resources
- Player to player goods trading
- A player market where we can buy and sell to each other such things as Engineer micro materials and maybe even Engineered modules.

But there's no reason why we can't have a proper experience for lone players in amongst this. I mean games like Destiny and Star Wars The Old Republic manage it pretty well. In SWTOR you can have your own NPC crew but you remain an individual character/avatar who can team up with other human players whenever you wish - the same can be done here in ED with NPC crew. I also don't see why for example we couldn't have the NPC Nemesis system from Shadow of Mordor in amongst a proper multiplayer experience.

The only way they can do reliable, meaningful multiplayer content is to have dedicated servers. I think my head would blast off and fly around the room if that were to ever happen.

 

[Werewolf13]

[up]

Good luck, I find that voicing an opinion against this game lack of polish only triggers white knights to attack you. The pigeons will come and mess with your words and try to make you the bad guy!

Have truer words ever been spoken?

Maybe...

But if so I'll be darned if I can remember where and when.

 

[CMDR Carbo]

In a nutshell, Frontier is developing new features instead of fleshing out the base game first. They continually ignore developing the core features of the game to instead tack on additional features over a lacking base game construct. The result is why Elite has the “mile wide but inch deep” meme attached to it. The majority of the game itself has not changed much at all since 1.0, there have just been some additional features added to the already barebones main game, the majority of which are combat features. It’s why you (and many others) feel like the game is stagnant and hasn’t changed in a long time, because truthfully, the main mechanics of the game have not changed in a long time.

Now, is this a result of bad design choices, or is it intentional on Frontier’s end? That’s a question that we the players can’t truly answer, only Frontier can.

I personally wish that Frontier would change course and improve the game’s foundations before building new houses upon half finished foundations….

This so much!! I agreree 100%.

We didn't need engineers yet. We didn't meed Multicrew yet. At least as long as the core game is so unfinished and barebone.

To all this people asking for npcs crew, what exactly do they expect them to do? Buff stats?

Provide immersion. Just sit in the cockpit and look busy.
So much in Elite is about immersion but we still sit alone in a sterile and lifeless bridge.

 

[NMS]

So much in Elite is about immersion but we still sit alone in a sterile and lifeless bridge.

Sterile and lifeless cockpit, planets, space, galaxy.......

 

[Soopyyy]

I couldn't in all reality let Frontier get away with making NPC crew simple window dressing. At this point, I feel this is exactly what they would do, and it's lazy.

 

[VerticalBlank]

I think the main driving force behind us not having NPC crew, no NPC wingmen, etc is because of the human multi player vision of the game. They know if NPC's were added in this fashion, that even fewer players would use the multi player features. It's all about trying to shoehorn players into playing with other humans.

Speaking personally that doesn't appeal to me. What has succeeded in getting me to play with other humans are the Distant Worlds Expedition and the Salomé event on the 29th.

 

[Blackcompany]

Then they really need to start working on the meaning of the words "multi-player". That means:
- Co-op missions
- In-game player group mechanics
- Team based content such as co-op strikes, raids, player owned stations, player owned capital ships, tangible player owned faction resources
- Player to player goods trading
- A player market where we can buy and sell to each other such things as Engineer micro materials and maybe even Engineered modules.

But there's no reason why we can't have a proper experience for lone players in amongst this. I mean games like Destiny and Star Wars The Old Republic manage it pretty well. In SWTOR you can have your own NPC crew but you remain an individual character/avatar who can team up with other human players whenever you wish - the same can be done here in ED with NPC crew. I also don't see why for example we couldn't have the NPC Nemesis system from Shadow of Mordor in amongst a proper multiplayer experience.

Agreed.

All these compromises for the sake of online multiplayer with zero features that barely works. We got the WORST of both worlds.

- - - Updated - - -

Sterile and lifeless cockpit, planets, space, galaxy.......

I wish I could disagree with this...But I can't.

 

[Mikey2305]

Still going guys? Any news of mass resignations at FD towers yet?

 

[Martian Successor]

I couldn't in all reality let Frontier get away with making NPC crew simple window dressing. At this point, I feel this is exactly what they would do, and it's lazy.

I must agree. In truth I've let my expectations for NPC crew slip after seeing the development decisions from Horizons 2.1 onwards. The sudden, unexpected and quite sharp veering off towards grind and RNG - something nobody requested in my opinion. And multilayered RNG grind at that! Fun got left by the wayside and they started forcefully structuring the game around tedium as if tedium somehow counts as meaningful gameplay. At that point I started curbing my expectations and decided to settle for NPC crew just as window dressing so long as we actually get NPC crew... Which we didn't.

My initial expectation for NPC crew (before I got discouraged via witnessing the dev leadership's mentality) was much like Mengy's:

If I had my way, they would both buff stats but also act as action modifiers of sorts. Think engineer blueprints that you can freely hire and fire instead of grinding for. Each crewmember could have one or more attributes taken from a pool of various things, stuff like:

• Combat Specialist
  • Faster reloading / recharging of weapons
  • Faster weapons fire rate
  • Improved gimbal tracking and accuracy
  • Improved turret tracking and accuracy
• Trading Specialist
  • Improve profit margins on selling goods
  • Improve profit margins on passenger missions
  • Improve passenger morale over time, only way to take passengers from unhappy back to happy state
  • Improve profit margins on black market transactions
• Science Specialist
  • Improve scanner speed
  • Increase scanner distance
  • Improve scanner angle
  • Improve FSD charge time
  • Reduce FSD cooldown period
• Engineer
  • Better energy usage
  • More efficient AFMU operation
  • Faster shield recharge rate
  • Allows repairing of power plant without a station

And this is just quickly off the top of my head. As more core game mechanics get added to things like exploration and trading these attributes could be vastly expanded upon. One of the biggest features of NPC crew would simply be to add atmosphere to our ship bridges by having people in the chairs, saying stuff with random voice lines preferably, even calling out system status and stuff. But the primary purpose of the stats they would bring would simply be to add a new level of minor customization to our ships, a layer on top of the engineers but without the huge grind.

There are tons of possibilities, but at least this could be something that ALL players could use, no matter what their play style or play mode is.

^ I trully hope all of this is still on the cards at some point. If we had gotten THAT instead of the restrictive and mind numbingly tedius grind of the RNGineers for 2.1, oh man. That would have been a super update in my opinion.

 

[Jon474]

To all this people asking for npcs crew, what exactly do they expect them to do? Buff stats?

I expect mine to clean up the bloody ship...it is a tip!

Salty, not salty
Jon
Type-6E

 

[wcjoker]

Hello Silvere,

Nice post, you covered quite a few details and made some good points, most of them felt by all commanders. One item I feel should be mentioned and that is mission organization. With all this future technology I feel like there should be mission packages. What I mean is that a mission package could contain missions going to the same system(s), I probably spend way to much time trying to organize my flight plan while all this future tech could just provide me with something built into the interface. I would love to see a list of mission packages sorted by reward so I could just grab what I want.

Great post!

Respectfully,
WCJoker

 

[DCLXVI your God]

In a nutshell, Frontier is developing new features instead of fleshing out the base game first. They continually ignore developing the core features of the game to instead tack on additional features over a lacking base game construct. The result is why Elite has the “mile wide but inch deep” meme attached to it. The majority of the game itself has not changed much at all since 1.0, there have just been some additional features added to the already barebones main game, the majority of which are combat features. It’s why you (and many others) feel like the game is stagnant and hasn’t changed in a long time, because truthfully, the main mechanics of the game have not changed in a long time.

Now, is this a result of bad design choices, or is it intentional on Frontier’s end? That’s a question that we the players can’t truly answer, only Frontier can.

I personally wish that Frontier would change course and improve the game’s foundations before building new houses upon half finished foundations….

Truth be told; I like new features. [yesnod]

On the other hand; I would indeed like to see Elite Dangerous fleshed out considerably.
And for a while, in my opinion, the latter has been losing.
For me, Power Play is the worst example.

And I wish that some of the forced obstacles and hindrances could be removed.
Preferably all of them.
For example the blue dot that indicates something "interesting" below you, on the planet floor; that actually disappears when you get closer than 2 kilometres.
Nobody likes such brutal kicks in the balls, even from someone you love. [squeeeee]

 

[Soopyyy]

Truth be told; I like new features. [yesnod]

On the other hand; I would indeed like to see Elite Dangerous fleshed out considerably.
And for a while, in my opinion, the latter has been losing.
For me, Power Play is the worst example.

And I wish that some of the forced obstacles and hindrances could be removed.
Preferably all of them.
For example the blue dot that indicates something "interesting" below you, on the planet floor; that actually disappears when you get closer than 2 kilometres.
Nobody likes such brutal kicks in the balls, even from someone you love. [squeeeee]

Yeah, that's just baffling. The signal is strong enough to show up on radar from 2500 meters but somehow vanishes on a perfectly flat plane under 2000 meters.
What boggle-eyed Engineer designed and produced that scanner?

 

[babelfisch]

Yeah, that's just baffling. The signal is strong enough to show up on radar from 2500 meters but somehow vanishes on a perfectly flat plane under 2000 meters.
What boggle-eyed Engineer designed and produced that scanner?

I absolutely hate the POI mechanic. I asked Sandro if they could change it, and he said yes, if enough people ask for it. But everybody seems to be more interested in fire buttons and long hair...

 

[sutex]

Conspiracy Theory No 1

THE END IS NEAR....well I thought it was kinda obvious when Engineers GO GET STUFF didn't come with any ability to store THE STUFF GOT.

and when you think about it why would Frontier setup storage for your online needs when that's just adding to the cost & maintenance.
Instance was all about going cheap ,then when it's time to start winding down, Frontier can walk away with out having to worry about servers.

Everything Frontier is doing, is about OUTLAY vers RETURNS, which is why you get eye tattoos and no storage.

So if the numbers are falling , if the player base crashes , then the game will be finished up with a single player option.

Of course this is all just a Conspiracy Theory

 

[Soopyyy]

I absolutely hate the POI mechanic. I asked Sandro if they could change it, and he said yes, if enough people ask for it. But everybody seems to be more interested in fire buttons and long hair...

Why did it even happen in the first place is my question? Who designed and implemented a POI that disappears when you get close and though "Yep, that's really useful!".

I don't even bother looking for things on planets any more. It's a wild goose chase.

 

[babelfisch]

Why did it even happen in the first place is my question? Who designed and implemented a POI that disappears when you get close and though "Yep, that's really useful!".

I don't even bother looking for things on planets any more. It's a wild goose chase.

They wanted to force you into driving the SRV, definitely one of the most stupid designs they ever came up with. It's not just the 2 km thing, I hate the whole mechanic with POIs randomly popping up, circles behaving like drunk, etc. They should remove it completely and add procedurally generated persistent POIs instead. Number of POIs should also be significantly lower, but give us better ways to search / scan for them. It would already help if they just use the scavenger hunt mechanic used in the planetary salvage missions.

 

[Soopyyy]

They wanted to force you into driving the SRV, definitely one of the most stupid designs they ever came up with. It's not just the 2 km thing, I hate the whole mechanic with POIs randomly popping up, circles behaving like drunk, etc. They should remove it completely and add procedurally generated persistent POIs instead. Number of POIs should also be significantly lower, but give us vetter ways to search / scan for them.

Yeah exactly, give me a planetary survey scanner. Show me where the important bits are and let me go to them. I mean, even if the scanner just gave me a break down of the surface composition so I could look at it and make an educated guess as to where certain minerals can be found it would be better than the completely random and completely blind easter egg hunt we have currently!