It feels like someone is doing their job wrong

[Blackcompany]

So just like players can filter the galaxy map for different powers and see where action is needed. This enables interaction and decisions.

But wait, the example doesn't count because nobody likes it.

Nobody likes PP because the actions have no depth. Sure I can see where merit grinding is needed. Thats not the problem.

The proem is, PP means doing the same crap over and over. That's the only thing FDev know how to do.

PP should be dynamic. Changing battlegrounds, changing needs and changing Missions based on skirmishes and battles.

Instead we get merit grinding. Nothing deep or engaging about it.

 

[skydivertricky]

Just going to add my voice to this thread. Another kickstarter backer, playing since Gamma. Have had 2 stints off because I got bored. Coming back for multicrew and I fear the fun wont last long.
This game feels like Im just earning credits for the sake of earning credits. Im not having influence on anything, I cant "win" skins or mods.

Still cannot share payouts from missions
Still cant do trading without 3rd party tools
Piracy and Smuggling are basically a waste of time or not even possible, unless it's for RP.
Powerplay should be important and affect the whole galaxy, but it's just a way to buff your bounty/trade income or just to get the Prismatic Shield/packhounds!
One HazRes is just the same as any other HazRes.
I really REALLY want this game to be less boring than it actually becomes. Ive tried exploits just to try something different.

It feels like its constant Over promised and under delivered.

I dont want to knock it, because I really really really want to enjoy things.
I am not a roleplayer, or much of a Lore person. If I was, then Id probably enjoy it more.

Fingers crossed....

 

[babelfisch]

Garbage. Verbal ebola. Nothing else. There´s no need to defend or take a position for or against anything, but lying or writing wrong facts is a thing where I get angry pretty fast.

There are always good and valid reasons for NOT implementing something. Money, Ressources, technical difficulties, time - whatever. We should all have in mind what was the base of kickstarter. 2 million pounds raised by the early game designs.

If you have a problem with lying and wrong facts, stop calling people who disagree with you White Knights.

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Nobody likes PP because the actions have no depth. Sure I can see where merit grinding is needed. Thats not the problem.

The proem is, PP means doing the same crap over and over. That's the only thing FDev know how to do.

PP should be dynamic. Changing battlegrounds, changing needs and changing Missions based on skirmishes and battles.

Instead we get merit grinding. Nothing deep or engaging about it.

Playing chess is doing the same thing over and over again too, and yet Mengy described it as the #1 example for depth.

PS
Since nobody understands what I meant, just to clarify...
Playing chess is doing the same thing over and over again in terms of what actions the game rules allow you. You can only move your pawn forward, there is not much variety in the movement itself. There are just 6 different piece types and they are all very limited in what you can do with them. And yet there are thousands of different moves that you could make, strategies you can come up with, anticipating your opponents moves, etc. The complexity or depth doesn't come from the actual "gameplay" but from the creativity of your mind (and from memorising a few thousand different situations if you are a good player...).
I think Powerplay isn't very different in that regard (and yes, I still don't like it,).

 

[ShimEnki]

Exactly. The game is all about wait walls, time sinks and minimal interaction.

The galaxy does not respond sufficiently to what little interaction there is for you to shape a personal narrative.

For that, consequences must exist for actions. We must have tools with which to shape the sand in the box. We lack that now.

Press J. Wait.
Hold trigger. Wait.
Load some rares. Wait.
Roll dice at RNGineer slot machine. Wait.
Target USS. Wait.

The game doesn't even try to pretend it wants to be interactive. IT KNOWS it's a shameless time sink. It's literally everywhere: Hera Tani, RNG Mats. USS contents. Ten or more second jumps. It's like they don't care whether the game is actually a game. Perfectly content to have it simply occupy your time, whether or not it's actually fun.

That's true--currently they don't seem to care or perhaps they don't have the slightest idea what would be implemented to counter it (even though their video advertisement of the game clearly demonstrated they know what players want when it comes to travel times and absence of loading screens, yet we have this)---or if they do, they don't have the horses to code it--ie maybe its just too hard for them.

However, now that the ED portion of the FD portfolio has blood smear all over the place from not only here, but reddit, steam and discord and elsewhere I'm sure, anyone who continues to pay and play post this "season" and complains, should be stiffly met by suggesting they not be so careless when spending money and do a few minutes or even less of searching about player feedback, and if they did and bought it, then truly--cry me a river please.

 

[DefiledDragon]

Playing chess is doing the same thing over and over again too, and yet Mengy described it as the #1 example for depth.

Mechanically yes, it is, but no two games are the same even though everybody starts from the same position every time and the only outcomes are win/lose/stalemate. That's depth.

 

[babelfisch]

Mechanically yes, it is, but no two games are the same even though everybody starts from the same position every time and the only outcomes are win/lose/stalemate. That's depth.

Yes, but there are differnt outcomes in Powerplay. Combat mechanics are another example for depth in the game and they fit the chess example too.

PS
To clarify:
I agree that the mechanics used in Powerplay aren't deep (and this is probably the worst part of it), but the system itself adds lots of depth (even if you don't like it).

 

[Blackcompany]

If you have a problem with lying and wrong facts, stop calling people who disagree with you White Knights.

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Playing chess is doing the same thing over and over again too, and yet Mengy described it as the #1 example for depth.

Once again: in chess...Say it with me now...YOUR DECISIONS MATTER. YOUR ACTIONS HAVE CONSEQUNCES. YOUR EVERY MOVE CAM SHAPE THE GAME- OR LOSE IT.

Elite offers NONE of this, outside combat. You just piddle along taking zero consequence actions for zero purpose. None of your decisions are meaningful. Nothing you do matters.

And.dont cite the BGS. That broken, opaque, unreliable technical disaster doesn't matter even.when you DO manage to change a.number or two.

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Yes, but there are differnt outcomes in Powerplay. Combat mechanics are another example for depth in the game and they fit the chess example too.

PS
To clarify:
I agree that the mechanics used in Powerplay aren't deep (and this is probably the worst part of it), but the system itself adds lots of depth (even if you don't like it).

And how does PP matter? It changes a name on a map. Gives you rewards. And that's it. That's literally the only thing that changes.

That's not depth it's eye candy and little enough of that.

 

[babelfisch]

Once again: in chess...Say it with me now...YOUR DECISIONS MATTER. YOUR ACTIONS HAVE CONSEQUNCES. YOUR EVERY MOVE CAM SHAPE THE GAME- OR LOSE IT.

Elite offers NONE of this, outside combat. You just piddle along taking zero consequence actions for zero purpose. None of your decisions are meaningful. Nothing you do matters.

And.dont cite the BGS. That broken, opaque, unreliable technical disaster doesn't matter even.when you DO manage to change a.number or two.

So it's only depth if you can be the saviour of the galaxy? You personally? Or if you can influence it, like in... powerplay? You changed the definition of depth so many times, maybe it's time you realise that the game doesn't lack depth but stuff you like and enjoy.

 

[Blackcompany]

Yes, but there are differnt outcomes in Powerplay. Combat mechanics are another example for depth in the game and they fit the chess example too.

PS
To clarify:
I agree that the mechanics used in Powerplay aren't deep (and this is probably the worst part of it), but the system itself adds lots of depth (even if you don't like it).

So...The system adds depth...Even.thought the mechanics within it lack depth.

Riiiiiight.

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So it's only depth if you can be the saviour of the galaxy? You personally? Or if you can influence it, like in... powerplay? You changed the definition of depth so many times, maybe it's time you realise that the game doesn't lack depth but stuff you like and enjoy.

Another Either/Or fallacy. Not surprised.

If your choice was don't matter and your actions lack consequences, then your game lacks depth.

Don't have to be a hero - so sick of that garbage in games - but decisions DO have to matter.

 

[babelfisch]

So...The system adds depth...Even.thought the mechanics within it lack depth.

Riiiiiight.

Yes, I think it's quite logical. Playing paintball can be deeper in the actual execution (running around, take cover, shoot people, etc.) but chess can be more deep in strategy.

 

[verminstar]

Playing chess is doing the same thing over and over again too, and yet Mengy described it as the #1 example for depth.

Im guessing ye dont play much chess if thats yer belief...a game can be played in a myriad of ways. Should one sacrifice strong pieces simply to make a play 7 moves ahead or play safe and give yer opponent time to make a mistake? No two games are the same and a beginner can try and try and try again and still be in check mate in under ten moves.

Doesnt really sound like yer doing the same thing over and over, does it? In many ways, chess is the ultimate strategy game where a single wrong move can make the difference between playing and being played. Doing the same thing over and over will result in loss as an opponent learns how predictable ye are and counters what you are utterly unable to counter because ye keep repeating the same mistakes over and over...tactics change all the time ^

 

[Ian Skippy]

Im guessing ye dont play much chess if thats yer belief...a game can be played in a myriad of ways. Should one sacrifice strong pieces simply to make a play 7 moves ahead or play safe and give yer opponent time to make a mistake? No two games are the same and a beginner can try and try and try again and still be in check mate in under ten moves.

Doesnt really sound like yer doing the same thing over and over, does it? In many ways, chess is the ultimate strategy game where a single wrong move can make the difference between playing and being played. Doing the same thing over and over will result in loss as an opponent learns how predictable ye are and counters what you are utterly unable to counter because ye keep repeating the same mistakes over and over...tactics change all the time ^

I think you missed his point...

 

[babelfisch]

Another Either/Or fallacy. Not surprised.

Stop acting like that or I am done with you.

If your choice was don't matter and your actions lack consequences, then your game lacks depth.

Don't have to be a hero - so sick of that garbage in games - but decisions DO have to matter.

But your actions do matter. You could stop supporting a power for example.

 

[GmG2Richardson]

And yet, travelling to them is a completely different story. Whatever magic let's you jump between star systems by means of a loading screen, could be expanded to turn the ability to expand your travel reach into space into a mechanic and reward of its own. After all, just "looking out of your window" tells you about nothing at all about how far the star system is away or what data a fictional ship computer needs to be fed to let your ship arrive there once you press "J".

As for telepresence, I'm all for it. Except for the telepresence explanation rubbish, because all the explanation I require is "it's a game and values my time". Not that telepresence is too unthinkable when a Wing has instant FTL voice comms throughout the whole galaxy... Here's another thing I'd gladly take: Park at a station and teleport to another station where you've parked one of your other ships. If needs be, by means of a credit fee. I've experienced how big space is by travelling between the home system and various bounty spots more than once and don't see why the game ought to take the liberty to shove the same sequence of loading screens in my face over and over and over again.

Or is it customary for MMOs to have you run all over the world manually again all the time? Don't think so. They usually have the grace to offer mounts for speeding things up or straight up teleportaion points to certain locations.

I agree. I also don't see why we can't pick which ship we want to load into when we start the game?

Another thing, what is the reasoning behind not being able to travel the full distance of our fuel tank? (other than "space is big")

 

[babelfisch]

Im guessing ye dont play much chess if thats yer belief...a game can be played in a myriad of ways. Should one sacrifice strong pieces simply to make a play 7 moves ahead or play safe and give yer opponent time to make a mistake? No two games are the same and a beginner can try and try and try again and still be in check mate in under ten moves.

Doesnt really sound like yer doing the same thing over and over, does it? In many ways, chess is the ultimate strategy game where a single wrong move can make the difference between playing and being played. Doing the same thing over and over will result in loss as an opponent learns how predictable ye are and counters what you are utterly unable to counter because ye keep repeating the same mistakes over and over...tactics change all the time ^

You missed the point, please read my other posts.

 

[Jex =TE=]

I was kicked in da butt for referencing to the DDF just a couple of days ago. White-Knights garbage was something like "There is a difference between a plan and the implementation".

Yes. There is. and right now the implementation is at 5 % when the plan was 100 %.

Then whoever got on your case for quoting the DDF is an outright idiot. That's the whole reason we have a game in the first place. Notrice how their posts start "hello backers" in some of them?

Anyone on these forums complaining about the DDF showed be tarred and feathered LOL

 

[BurnyBurns]

Another thing, what is the reasoning behind not being able to travel the full distance of our fuel tank? (other than "space is big")

Might've utterly trivialized trading I suspect? Not that watching 20 loading screens is anything less than trivial in terms of game mechanics, but in lack for another mechanics, tedium seems to have been preserved.

 

[ShimEnki]

Once again: in chess...Say it with me now...YOUR DECISIONS MATTER. YOUR ACTIONS HAVE CONSEQUNCES. YOUR EVERY MOVE CAM SHAPE THE GAME- OR LOSE IT.

Elite offers NONE of this, outside combat. You just piddle along taking zero consequence actions for zero purpose. None of your decisions are meaningful. Nothing you do matters.

And.dont cite the BGS. That broken, opaque, unreliable technical disaster doesn't matter even.when you DO manage to change a.number or two.

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And how does PP matter? It changes a name on a map. Gives you rewards. And that's it. That's literally the only thing that changes.

That's not depth it's eye candy and little enough of that.

And that's another thing they either DO get it very deeply or are so completely daft about that no amount of feedback can remedy---which is the player cause and effect dynamic.

If they are deeply aware of their decision about this mode of player irrelevance, then step back and see the angle- far outside the petty game trivialities. (think--video games have replaced the function of cinemas on this)

Players who come to the gaming world to experience more power over their external INperience/environment want to witness cause and effect of their actions and where games offer very little of it, many who turn to griefing, do so because of this.

Now with the vice grips that have been placed on the BGS more than ever by design---you might as well go and play roller coaster --sit back and let FD take you where they want you to go.

 

[Blackcompany]

Stop acting like that or I am done with you.



But your actions do matter. You could stop supporting a power for example.

And what changes if you DO stop supporting a power? The name on map? So what.

Chess is deep because your resources are limited, your every move risks losing those resources and the game hinges on every decision you make. Every change that occurs, can make yours or your opponent's resources more scarce, improve or worsen the Tactical situation and even decide the game.

Elite is shallow because nothing has consequences. So you stopped support for a power. Flipped sides in a war. Shot down a secuirty ship. So what?

It doesn't matter. None of it matters. You aren't at risk. The factions you betray, still welcome you into their stations. Outside of.moment to moment combat where your ship.is at risk nothing you do in Elite matters.

Now, contrast that with EVE. Where you can build ships to supply the market, help horde resources to provoke war to drive up the cost of your ships to increase your income...Where everything you do stays with you.

Or to Chess. Where each move can further limit both resources and options.

To Poker. Very limited resources. Seven cards, your knowledge of odds and your skill at bluffing. Real stakes.

That's depth. That's what Elite lacks.

 

[iFred]

Chess is also miles deeper because you are bound to a side. Not as in Elite, where you can basically support both sides of a conflict without having to fear any consequences. This is also the main reason why Powerplay failed so much imho.