#support3rdparty - Why we temporarily shut down our sites.

[Sole Hunter]

Guessing this is firmly with your mod had off ?

Sadly, I still can't add some of the blue names to /ignore ... guess I might have to find a 3rd party tool for it

lol if you need an app for that let me know, I've had that clown on ignore for the past year or so.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

Strike action never results in an overall better outcome. Anyone around during the miner strikes in the 70's will tell you that.

This is completely the wrong way to get better engagement with FD.

I do think they have a reasonable argument but but putting it into a 'do as we ask or else' situation just leads to more issues.

If I was FD I'd just stop public access to an API. ED does NOT NEED 3rd party tools to be playable.

Tread carefully! You're suggesting players need to learn how to read the game's interface!

 

[Jex =TE=]

Ok then. Shut the sites down and we'll see what happens.

Do the sites help with certain things? Hells yes.
Do they make certain aspects much easier? Hells yes.
Are any of them actually vital? No.

There's been at least 3 people here say they couldn't play ED without the sites. Taking them away and then making everyone rely on the awful ingame tools along with the shallow repetitive gameplay? I'd say these tools are the paste holding ED together given what they do for the community.

 

[Ermintrude]

Like most people, I find playing this game is much more enjoyable with the third party tools.

Sure, FDev don't have to support them, but also the tool makers don't have to keep the tools up either.

Many of these tools fix holes in the ED experience. They enhance the game, help keep people playing. Without them the game isn't as good.

I support the action.

 

[Madrax573]

Tread carefully! You're suggesting players need to learn how to read the game's interface!

Oh hell no!!! Asking gamers to read? well me!

 

[Arkku]

Not to be an a, but every developer should understand that building against an undocumented API is like building a house on ice.

Yes, of course the lack of entitlement here goes both ways: FDEV isn't being held to ransom because they aren't entitled to the tools and hosting by 3rd party developers, and in turn 3rd party developers aren't entitled to support from FDEV. I see this action as kind of a wake-up call: either FDEV realises that they "need" these tools and to keep them they need to either make their own or start providing some support in exchange for the 3rd party developers' time and effort, or else FDEV can just ignore this if they don't think the tools are needed, and then at least the 3rd party developers know how things stand.

 

[CMDR Redcrest]

Absoloutely right on the latter part. They are welcome to make their sites paid for if they want, or shut down their sites, or lock them to just their friends only.

They do it all free of charge, without contracts they can do as they like (as long as it doesn't break and FD TOS).

But they are holding FD to ransom here. They are saying "Give us what we want, or else". Ok, technically speaking ransom usually means demands for money and that's not what is going on here. Extortion fits better, but that's a really nasty word and I don't want to use it to describe what the guys are doing, but it is technically correct.

Are they what extorting anyone!
Hyperbole much!
The situation is better described as:
If I help my neighbour dig rocks out of his garden so he can have a smooth lawn and I ask 'can you give me the keys for the shed so I can use the wheelbarrow to take the rocks to the skip' and they don't answer why the heck would I continue to help them out if they're making an already tough job harder by not responding and providing basic tools?

 

[HeliosFCB]

It's quite simple really: for a huge amount of players, these tools create added value. You can play the game without them, but for a lot of people it's more satisfying and fun to use them.

If FD feels that these tools make their game more complete, then they should actively and publicly support these initiatives. If not, they should cut the umbilical cord and get whatever features they want players to use implemented themselves.
As far as I can see, it's all this foreplay but no real action that causes most frustrations.

 

[xondk]

There's been at least 3 people here say they couldn't play ED without the sites. Taking them away and then making everyone rely on the awful ingame tools along with the shallow repetitive gameplay? I'd say these tools are the paste holding ED together given what they do for the community.

if a game only is 'fun' because of certain 3rd party tools, then the game to those people simply isn't fun and they should stop playing anyone, no one should play something they don't enjoy.

 

[blaisepascal]

I support this initiative. These 3rd party sites are not only useful: they are essential and provide invaluable information. I couldn't do without them.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

You're clearly missing the point here: The site has gone down, to make sure the site can be up in the future longer, and if FD decides to add The Shark as a new ship, EDCD will have the opportunity to add "The Shark" to the site... it is that simple

So what is Frontier supposed to do as "support"?

Seriously, I'm an idiot. I'm asking you what Frontier does with the developers. What do they say? How do they communicate? I'm asking how they go about throwing the ball here, not if they're supposed to.

 

[Valyn Eritai]

Just letting you third party devs that as a developer myself on various APIs, I fully support this initiative. We need a proper API and we want it now!

Also saying, I literally cannot play Elite without these sites either, as the in-game tools are so shallow and useless it's not feasible to bother with it.

 

[madmitch]

Is this big brother tactic coming into play, can't believe Ed would do something like this and no explanation as to why,come Ed lets all be friends. : I might as wels top using ED and buying the goodes as in extras

 

[Aidan Brooder]

I think Frontier does have an obligation to state whether they encourage/support third party addins. If so, then give the devs what they ask. If not, then devs will just have to make do.

But the ambiguity from Frontier is not helpful.

There is and always has been a healthy golden path in the middle.
This seems like a repetition of discussions about the EVE Online API.

I don't know any serious EVE Player playing the game without using EVEMON and EFIT (or whatever the newest EFIT substitution is).
And then depending on taste other tools.

There should be a healthy transparency and a heads-up when changing the API. This actually benefits both Elite Dangerous and the developers of Third Party tools.

From my own work I can tell you that third party tools can be a pain in the rear for the core development team, when it gets to a state where you feel forced to support multitudes of solutions that do go against your own future vision of the system or hinder new implementations. And that should never happen.

But changes should be clearly communicated in advance. They don't even need a Discord server for that. Just a separate part on their own forum, like a tech forum.

 

[ries]

They are exactly doing that, that is what a strike is. Are you unfamiliar with strikes?

and *WHOOSH*.

Ill give you a hint, strikes are done by employees. 3rd party dev's arent employees.

 

[Paramemetic]

If you are posting in this thread and you have an Inara pilot's license signature you'd better be 100% supporting this strike or you are a complete idiot, hope this helps.

 

[ShadowWolf Kell]

Oh hell no!!! Asking gamers to read? well me!

I just go with the flow. Sometimes no matter how hard I try, I can't read and it's working as intended.

 

[Mohrgan]

Cheap theatrics. Something like a campaign to murder noobs to get a game mechanic changed?

I support the creators of these sites. I don't remember FD asking these guys to do what they do. They just did it. To turn around and take something out on the community only demonstrates a set of swelled heads. Swelled heads have a seriously hard time being pulled back out of that orifice.

If the same group of outside developers stated their case, and asked for support, I would be right there behind them. But, just jumping up and using extortion as a tool, puts these guys right in a league with the all the other spoiled, griefer groups.

 

[pipo zelvelder]

jup next to their demands.

trolling again? you're not very good at it, though... better git-gut

 

[Lord_aNOOBis]

Mixed Feelings

I have mixed feelings about this Action by the 3rd party devs.

First, I have to say that this was an issue I did not know about. I thought FD was supporting 3rd party devs with fast bug fixes, creating and extending the journal and so on.
Bad to hear that this is not happening as it should and the 3rd party devs have my full support about that matter.

Because I think they add a lot of useful stuff to the game:

- EDDB: I'd find nothing without it, since I tend to forget what I got where. Especially when it comes to rare commodities and modules.
- Corolis: I'm planning all my outfitting there, expecially the engineering.
- INARA: Where I get all my inforamtions about engineers and materials I need.
- EDSM: Forget mapping the galaxy or even the bubble without automated mapping tools and a central place to store stuff

But...dat timing... FD is busy with both the Salome event and getting the worst bugs fixed for that event.
The players are busy engineering their ships for that event and I think many will have a harder time now. (Glad that I won't participate due to RL)


So, 3rd party devs have my full support in general, but in this matter, I won't pick up a sign and go on the street shouting.
I'll rather pick up some popcorn and watch from afar.