Agreed. Other sites will come.
#support3rdparty - Why we temporarily shut down our sites.
- Thread starter themroc
- Start date
- Status
Agreed. Other sites will come.
Ozric
Volunteer Moderator
I'll have a crack at answering your question from my own perspective, I didnt see it previously. It's a long thread and moving fast
I wouldnt put the API as top priority of course. Main game features are more important by a long shot. I'd just like to see some actual solid commitment to do SOMETHING about it in the near future.
The problem is we've had years of conversation asking for improvements and yet no action. I wasnt aware of the #support3rdparty plan but when I saw it I joined in. Mainly because I see the effect of the poorly implemented API first hand. I cant even use my own site as the API has broken for my characters so I cant test or improve it. The companion API is no longer supported so FDev arent going to fix it. If I could get the trade data from the journal that would be a work around but they've not supplied that info.
Then FD need to just say it's not going to happen, because it's clearly not. Like I said it's been obvious from the start it wasn't going to happen and although there have been some concessions towards an API, it has only gotten to this stage because the developers (not all, and I am trying to choose my words carefully because I certainly respect the amount of work involved) pushed on creating things regardless of being told they weren't going to get any support.
To be fair, that's not really how I read it. What they want is a bit of notice for a breaking change, and timely feedback on bug reports so that they know if / when it might be fixed. The developers of these tools are working with a set of moving goalposts with no knowledge of when those goalposts will move or where they'll move to. I completely stand behind them on that.
Frontier do need to realise that a lot of people rely on these third-party tools, so it's in everyone's interest to formally support them. The action taken simply isn't the way to go about getting that support though.
How on Earth can you not read it like that, when that's exactly what it says?
Slightly OT by me here but ... a Space Mutiny avatar!!!!! AWESOME
"oOoOo ..... who stole my purse?"
It was literally the first thing they said and one of the reasons they initially didn't want to do it.
I have the greatest sympathy for the OP and for the other developers of 3rd party tools for ED. They are providing a service that a significant fraction of the player base clearly uses. As such they are deserving of support from FD at least in terms of not breaking the features they rely on unless it's absolutely necessary and even then FD should let folks know in plenty of time for the 3rd party devs to find a workaround - they are ingenious folks with a great deal of experience at making these tools work without much of an API at all, if a workaround is possible then given the advance warning they'd probably find it.
Personally, I don't trade on routes in those tools and I have extensive notes on my local machine about good places to find certain ships/modules/commodities so that aspect of them is a bit moot for me but that's just because I *like* playing old-school, I've certainly no reason to criticize another cmdr if they choose to make use of every feature out there, they are as entitled to play their own way as I am to mine. If that includes using the external tools as a guide that's fine. I've only just signed up on Inara because I like the RP aspects of parts of the site and that's pretty much my only reason to be there. As a writer I caught myself creating story scenarios around my ED experiences so was looking for someplace to post them rather than just letting them crowd up the inside of my head.
Regarding providing in-game functionality that equals the capabilities of those 3rd party tools, though, I'd be leaning towards not. The tools exist and they work. Having them tightly integrated into the game experience would, in the case of players like me who prefer to tackle it old-school, make it harder to keep my game experience "clean" that way. Just my opinion, but it seems that having the 3rd party tools available and supported by FD as the OP wishes is the best of both worlds.
Personally, I don't trade on routes in those tools and I have extensive notes on my local machine about good places to find certain ships/modules/commodities so that aspect of them is a bit moot for me but that's just because I *like* playing old-school, I've certainly no reason to criticize another cmdr if they choose to make use of every feature out there, they are as entitled to play their own way as I am to mine. If that includes using the external tools as a guide that's fine. I've only just signed up on Inara because I like the RP aspects of parts of the site and that's pretty much my only reason to be there. As a writer I caught myself creating story scenarios around my ED experiences so was looking for someplace to post them rather than just letting them crowd up the inside of my head.
Regarding providing in-game functionality that equals the capabilities of those 3rd party tools, though, I'd be leaning towards not. The tools exist and they work. Having them tightly integrated into the game experience would, in the case of players like me who prefer to tackle it old-school, make it harder to keep my game experience "clean" that way. Just my opinion, but it seems that having the 3rd party tools available and supported by FD as the OP wishes is the best of both worlds.
I'm torn...
I occasionally use these sites, for example if i'm writing a blog post about ED and I want an easy way of showing a ship build, but I'm mainly a pen and paper guy, I have a lot of notes. But just because I don't use it does not mean i don't see the enormous value that other players find it.
But the way this has been instigated I find....distasteful. I cant think of a better analogy than terrorism. By shutting down the sites and posting on the forum they have have gone for a very easy, rabble rousing approach. These guys volunteer to supply 3rd party tools, that they even ask for donations is anthema to the whole idea of volunteering, but people have a different stance on what is right and wrong. On the other hand people want to pay for services/goods they use so it's a little bit of a quandry.
Though I feel that a vast majority will support the 3rd party devolopers for tools they bring to the game, I cant in good conscious support this movement.
Writing an open letter to FDev and gaining support from the community but not this way.
Possible solutions.
FDev remove API support until they have the resources available to maintain the system
FDev Offer to improve API support but it will now be a paid for service but with better upkeep etc.
FDev "We cant commit any more resources to this area, we appreciate your input to the community, but if you feel you cant play with what you have at the moment we wish you luck in your future endeavours."
FDev remove API support completely.
The other option is improving the present API support, that support would have to come from somewhere and so would the money. Eg. We could get space legs 'booted' till at least 2020 and get API over the next 6 months.
Actions have consequences, the action taken here and the pressure exerted onto FDev will have future repercussions.
You or I or maybe FDev wont realise these repercussions at the moment, but allowing a small bunch of volunteers dictating the terms of another companies IP is wrong and should not be supported.
I occasionally use these sites, for example if i'm writing a blog post about ED and I want an easy way of showing a ship build, but I'm mainly a pen and paper guy, I have a lot of notes. But just because I don't use it does not mean i don't see the enormous value that other players find it.
But the way this has been instigated I find....distasteful. I cant think of a better analogy than terrorism. By shutting down the sites and posting on the forum they have have gone for a very easy, rabble rousing approach. These guys volunteer to supply 3rd party tools, that they even ask for donations is anthema to the whole idea of volunteering, but people have a different stance on what is right and wrong. On the other hand people want to pay for services/goods they use so it's a little bit of a quandry.
Though I feel that a vast majority will support the 3rd party devolopers for tools they bring to the game, I cant in good conscious support this movement.
Writing an open letter to FDev and gaining support from the community but not this way.
Possible solutions.
FDev remove API support until they have the resources available to maintain the system
FDev Offer to improve API support but it will now be a paid for service but with better upkeep etc.
FDev "We cant commit any more resources to this area, we appreciate your input to the community, but if you feel you cant play with what you have at the moment we wish you luck in your future endeavours."
FDev remove API support completely.
The other option is improving the present API support, that support would have to come from somewhere and so would the money. Eg. We could get space legs 'booted' till at least 2020 and get API over the next 6 months.
Actions have consequences, the action taken here and the pressure exerted onto FDev will have future repercussions.
You or I or maybe FDev wont realise these repercussions at the moment, but allowing a small bunch of volunteers dictating the terms of another companies IP is wrong and should not be supported.
Delta Squadrons Response:
After a lengthy debate Delta Squadron would like to express our total support for the 3rd party developers and we request Frontier embrace and officially support them with a full developer suite of API tools made for these 3rd party developers.
However lets all keep in mind.... View attachment 119557
After a lengthy debate Delta Squadron would like to express our total support for the 3rd party developers and we request Frontier embrace and officially support them with a full developer suite of API tools made for these 3rd party developers.
However lets all keep in mind.... View attachment 119557
This is bold.
Of course I'm going to be wildly inconvenienced. I feel like I can barely function in Elite unless I have EDDB.io and Coriolis ship builder running in the background at all times. I admit I've started to take them for granted over time and this has brought me back to reality.
I fully support this shutdown. I hope it garners you the cooperation that you need from Frontier. I would also like to know what support if any you need from us, the players? Will monetary donations help or perhaps some other kind of support? Please let us know.
Much thanks to all involved.
-EJIRO
Of course I'm going to be wildly inconvenienced. I feel like I can barely function in Elite unless I have EDDB.io and Coriolis ship builder running in the background at all times. I admit I've started to take them for granted over time and this has brought me back to reality.
I fully support this shutdown. I hope it garners you the cooperation that you need from Frontier. I would also like to know what support if any you need from us, the players? Will monetary donations help or perhaps some other kind of support? Please let us know.
Much thanks to all involved.
-EJIRO
Last edited:
Support third party devs they will keep your game alive, dynamic and growing for years!
I just started playing elite dangerous, the thing that sold me was the api related 3rd part dev community. A game with a healthy player dev community is usually a good sign to me, as a pc gamer its what I often look for in a game!
I just started playing elite dangerous, the thing that sold me was the api related 3rd part dev community. A game with a healthy player dev community is usually a good sign to me, as a pc gamer its what I often look for in a game!
After speaking in private with the OP and other involved community developers, we have all agreed that it was best for the community to bring the websites back up as soon possible. This will be happening simultaneously at 19:00 UTC (where possible) for all the sites.
We have made a commitment to work more closely with the third party developer community to address concerns and support these features which the community use and value on a daily basis.
These ongoing communications will include developers from other third party websites who may be interested, not just those listed in the OP. If you are an active and established third party Elite Dangerous developer, get in touch with community@frontier.co.uk
We all hope that clears things up!
Thanks everyone,
Ed
We have made a commitment to work more closely with the third party developer community to address concerns and support these features which the community use and value on a daily basis.
These ongoing communications will include developers from other third party websites who may be interested, not just those listed in the OP. If you are an active and established third party Elite Dangerous developer, get in touch with community@frontier.co.uk
We all hope that clears things up!
Thanks everyone,
Ed
Oh those horrible trade unions that defend workers from unscrupulous practices by employers. You remember those paid holidays you took? Fought for and won by trade unions. The right to a safe work place, fought for and won by... TRADE UNIONS!
The audacity of people running around protecting the right's of workers. Let's all just go back to shoving kids down mines.
Unions can be good in a lot of areas but you always know their suggestions are really just demands being made under another name and if the company/government don't implement their "suggestions" at least a ballot action is likely.
EDCD RESPONSE
After a very fast approach from Frontier - especially Ed Lewis who as we all know does a great job under tough circumstances, we in the EDCD feel that Frontier have been earnest in their positive response to the third-party developer community today. As such, and so as to not cause further disruption to the playerbase or upcoming game events, we thought it would be a good idea to reopen our web sites in good faith of their announced commitment.
We thank Frontier for their frank and honest exchanges, and very much look forward towards a continued symbiotic relationship between Frontier, the fantastic game Elite: Dangerous, and the third-party developers and the tools they create.
After a very fast approach from Frontier - especially Ed Lewis who as we all know does a great job under tough circumstances, we in the EDCD feel that Frontier have been earnest in their positive response to the third-party developer community today. As such, and so as to not cause further disruption to the playerbase or upcoming game events, we thought it would be a good idea to reopen our web sites in good faith of their announced commitment.
We thank Frontier for their frank and honest exchanges, and very much look forward towards a continued symbiotic relationship between Frontier, the fantastic game Elite: Dangerous, and the third-party developers and the tools they create.
Just few days ago I was thinking how tools like EDSM, EDDN, INARA and others became an essential part of the game and wondered if E: D will be even playable without them. I could have never imagined that I'll learn the answer for this so soon!
I'd like to say big "THANK YOU!" to the developers of 3rd party tools. These tools are of a great help. They improve my gameplay experience by far margin.
I do understand and support your current actions. Communications from FDev were always sporadic. From time to time they drop a large post with some important information and then disappear for months. Reporting bugs is an exercise in frustration and patience: there is literally zero communication after first copy-pasted reply from QA until many months later fix suddenly appears in some patch (or does not appear...).
Please, FDev, a game can not live without a community, and community needs a certain level of communication from you to flourish.
I'd like to say big "THANK YOU!" to the developers of 3rd party tools. These tools are of a great help. They improve my gameplay experience by far margin.
I do understand and support your current actions. Communications from FDev were always sporadic. From time to time they drop a large post with some important information and then disappear for months. Reporting bugs is an exercise in frustration and patience: there is literally zero communication after first copy-pasted reply from QA until many months later fix suddenly appears in some patch (or does not appear...).
Please, FDev, a game can not live without a community, and community needs a certain level of communication from you to flourish.
Last edited:
I use INARA and EDDB frequently, and feel these tools are integral to enjoyment of the game.
I also use coriolis frequently, as it's a fun way to look at how builds come together before investing in them.
+1 for this movement!
I also use coriolis frequently, as it's a fun way to look at how builds come together before investing in them.
+1 for this movement!
Thanks Ed! We appreciate your time and attention, and Frontier's willingness to stand behind a commitment to improve on this. Looking forward to working with you all!
Last edited:
here is the level of effort for EDDiscovery, just one of the tools provided by your loving community developers
Last edited:
- Status