THE FORMIDINE RIFT MYSTERY (Part 4)

Hello,

Sorry for interrupting the discussion, but I don't know where to ask..
My ship is near the Formidine Rift and I wish to know if there's anything left to discover in that void.
If the Rift mysteries are over, there's no point in going there, so I will return to the bubble.
I also ask because I've read that "There's something darker than the Thargoids in the Rift", but since the last events, don't know..

Thanks in advance!
 
Teorge is mentioned in "The Dark Wheel" - the book that came with the original Elite, which would be "the old lore". So "The Dark Wheel" is an obvious candidate for the organisation. They've been mentioned in connection with this mystery before, too, with the items left behind on the earlier disappearance of Kahina Loren.
(In the "old definitely not lore" of Mutabilis at least some of the parallel-universe Rebeccas were canonically members of it, too)

INRA certainly fits some of the description and some of the methods they've used fit very well with how they were portrayed in the fiction that came with FFE (old lore again) - but I really can't imagine Rebecca getting involved with them in the first place. I wouldn't be *surprised* if it was them - and I certainly won't be surprised if they have their own part to play in the story - but I don't think it fits quite as well for this particular clue.

Presumably the organisation itself is not mentioned by name because they name-search on mysteriousbeacons.galnet
OK, this might sound a bit bizarre and I'm still catching up on everything that's been said over the weekend on this thread but here's my understanding based upon the logs in Teorge.
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Teorge was a system known for its use of cloning, from what I remember of The Dark Wheel. Rebecca's statements in the logs that 'I'm not the first and I'm not the last. I'm old now and it will soon be time for another to take my place. Maybe it's her who has led you here.' suggests to me that she knew herself to be a clone, who would in due course be replaced. It also suggests that Salomé was that clone. That sounds bizarre and would imply that she was 'placed' in Senator Algreb Loren's family by this shady organisation.
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The next part of my understanding is also based upon the use of cloning. The population of the bubble is trillions (on the order of 6 trillion, I think), so if you need to evacuate, then rather than building enough ships to transport 6 trillion people, it would be more efficient to build ships to transport cell samples from 6 trillion people and use cloning/reproduction technology to create individuals with the necessary talents upon arrival at a new colony. The originals must take their chances - and if you can hold off an invasion then great but if not then you have multiple 'backups' available within a generation (provided their existence is kept secret so they are not attacked) to continue your civilisation and possibly provide the numbers and economic advantages to help repel an assailant.
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The big unknown is the nature of the threat. Yes, it's Thargoids - but where are they based and what are they doing now? If they have infiltrated the bubble prior to engaging in open warfare, then the strategy of keeping the Rift mystery secret is sound because then the enemy would not know that you have the backup plan. If they have not infiltrated the bubble, then where are they and why have we not seen them for so long? Are the Unknown Ships really them? In either case, it becomes important to find them without giving ourselves away or inciting hostilities. We don't know if they are going to be hostile or if they can be negotiated with. (I do worry that FD have already set us on a certain course for war just for the drama of having a conflict with an alien race...).
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One thing that might be essential in dealing with the Thargoids, whether they are hostile or not, is to understand their origins. Could they be an offshoot of Guardian Exiles, genetically engineered by them, or did Guardian AI latch onto an (allegedly) Ammonia-based race and control them (in much the same way as they co-existed with living Guardian hosts but with the insectoid hive-mind being more compatible for them to operate within?). Another possibility that involves the Guardians might be that they encountered the Thargoids themselves (their logs do mention an 'enemy' near the time of their demise) and/or developed technology that might assist us against them. Perhaps there are still Exiles or their descendants surviving and have knowledge that can help us, even if they do not want to become involved in a conflict directly.
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From this understanding, I can see two priorities for my character to pursue.
  1. Locate the Thargoid 'bubble' or homeworld and any outposts of Thargoid activity throughout the galaxy.
  2. Locate the Guardian Exiles and any remains of outposts or technology.
I have one lead in these objectives: a ship that was a part of the Dynasty Expedition to the Conflux was hyperdicted. That suggests Thargoid activity within the region at that time. Guardian Ruins have also been found in the Conflux.
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I have no idea if anything I'm looking for is actually in-game at this time but what else can I do? The presence of Guardian Ruins suggests that there might be more of those to find, though, so I am optimistic on that front. I do strongly suspect that all Thargoid-related assets are permit-locked, however (Polaris and HIP 22460 are locked away, after all).
 
The people in escape pods are not necessarily alive ;)

Unless it's an imperial med-pod and a certain black tape was used beforehand.

And there we have the exit strategy. ;)
Find a suitable dead body for Salomé. Fix the body, download her memory back into the body. Now we have somebody else - not Salomé - but with Salomé inside.

Basically Salomé pulling an Octavia. (Sounds strangely like something involving czech cars)
 
Tianve has been mentioned in a recent interview and it's part of the old lore (i don't know much of the original game so please help me with that). It could be a system worth investigating.
Tianve was in the original game and is one of the few systems to have been brought across. Along with Arexe, Teorge, Isinor, and maybe one or two others I've forgotten, it's in the small set of systems in the original Elite but not in FE2 or FFE - the immediate Lave cluster has of course been in all four.

I don't think it was in any way remarkable in the original game (just another high-tech democracy). Its fame comes from Drew's Oolite stories where it was Rebecca's birthplace and the only populated system with a neutron star, which became a major tourist attraction. (the original Elite didn't have neutron stars)

The recently-settled Magellan, in the Colonia Nebula, is I believe the only populated system to contain a neutron star, and has a Tourism economy. Coincidence?
 
OK, this might sound a bit bizarre and I'm still catching up on everything that's been said over the weekend on this thread but here's my understanding based upon the logs in Teorge.
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The whole cloning concept is quite useless - even with the magic "personality/soul" transfer. It might work on individual scale, on larger scale up to the population of all systems it's just a complete waste of time.

Humans are quite fast and eager to reproduce naturally. No need for fancy technology, just add some alcohol to a big enough sample size of humans and wait a few months. (turning out the lights and some smooth music helps too)

Governments don't care about individuals. All they need is humans.
 
So did I. If I had the skill and the will, I could have done what HP did.

Salomé had friended many players. In fact, I believe the policy until very shortly before the chase event was that she accepted all friend requests. Harry had no doubt friended her some time in the past, anticipating that a time would come when she would be vulnerable. So far, so conspiracy-free. And, as you imply, there were many, many players who could see exactly where she was, so the end that transpired was always highly likely.

The question now is, what next? As Drew has said, that depends on where we want to go - which suggests to me that any thread of enquiry we follow will get an in-game response that may lead us further or may show us to be barking up the wrong tree. I hope that FD will support the generation of this and other stories with a little more material support than they've given so far. For instance, the Formidine Rift, Hawking's Gap and Conflux expeditions all had logs suggesting nefarious doings. A little more physical evidence to find might have been fun. The 'Bermuda Triangle' analogy gives scope for all sorts of spooky happenings with which to scare and intrigue Commanders - so, fill yer boots FD; throw us some stuff!

Anyway, I've enjoyed watching this, mostly from the sidelines, and I hope it leads to bigger and better mysteries.
 
Er, it's more than a lack of deployed beacons.

Yes, I understand; but it's those supposedly deployed beacons that have really been "ling" me ( meant to type 'n i g g ling' but I can't seem to edit to correct it; AH- think FD's bad word checker has gone haywire- FD this is NOT a bad word! See OED definition! https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/le ) :)
Edit: great, it even chops the OED url!!!

I think it comes down to your expectations. If those expectations are not met then you'll feel really let down and angry & I sympathise.

I think most of the Rifters two years ago when I joined fully expected "it" to be more dramatic than the wreck we found (eventually, with a bit of prodding because the FD timeline could no longer stretch to accomodate-it had to be exposed before the alien threat can invade, but the upgrade from a derelict anaconda to the megaship was a nice touch, despite the lights still working). But I think it also became clear over the last 6 months that 'it' was the conspiracy behind that wreck. That was the only thing that would make sense of the "hidden tapestry that we only are seeing from the back" clue. And there are still aspects of the conspiracy to uncover-exactly WHO was involved, WHY did the crews have to be murdered, WHERE are these damn beacons :) and WHERE is the threat coming from, HOW did the conspirators find out about this amassing threat & WHEN, and WHAT is it. It may be we have to wait for Premonition to explain some of that, & also hopefully point out the clues that we apparently missed, but it may be that there are still aspects to solve in-game and that's what I'm hoping for. Because THIS is what has made this game absolutely fantastic over the last two years. The sense of mystery, fear (yes, the first few times out in the black when you were fully expecting some alien nasty to pounce on you when your back was turned), comradeship, banter, fun and clue solving have been great. I still say (though I got shouted down severely when I said it before) is that E D is a fantastic framework, the graphics and artwork are superb, the detail that FD keep adding (even to voice logs now, great!); the CTDs and other bugs are frustrating because they break the immersion. BUT a 10-year plan for the game means that the pace is slow. After you've done for a while the pew pew, trading, exploring the black, it lacks something immediate to focus the attention and keep the interest, and that is where the FRift mystery has worked superbly. So I hope FD learn from this and keep to their long-term plan (I would love to be playing still in another 8 years, but expect the rheumatism will be too bad by then) but give us more visible storyline threads to chase with problems to solve, & make the lore a little clearer so we understand the context of the times we are supposed to be living in; PowerPlay just doesn't do that for me-I'm the type that switches off the TV news because I can't stand politicians and politics.

Edit: and the pew pew weapon upgrades that PP gives- ridiculous!!!!!

Sorry, I've gone a bit over the top here but I think it has to be said. [yesnod]

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This is precisely where we are. The players must decide what, if anything, to do next.

Cheers,

Drew.

Ah, but this is the problem. We don't know if there is anything left to find, hence some of the salt. The lack of supposedly deployed beacons at ELW in the Rift, the lack of alien nasties when the FRift/Gap/Conflux logs clearly hinted at that.... we understand there are limitations in game mechanics, & presumably FD manpower to put some things in that should have been. All we need is an indication that there is/will be more to find if we go looking, & have some clues to follow - they seem to be exhausted. But we also understand your & FD stance about not giving clues, so we are curently at a loss as how to proceed.
 
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Nah, true Rifters drink from the bottle. Cups are for Canonneers! :D

This has been a good thread with great community spirit. If it is the end of the FRift mystery then I hope we get another to collaborate on!
Just hinting (& requesting politely!!) MB & DB! [yesnod]


Spent a fair bit of time myself out in the rift & have been a close follower of this thread, even if I didn’t post in it. Just got to say for all the salt that Drew had over the weekend I think we have to be thankful to him for some engaging game play, tons of tin foil & commanders making some good friends.
 
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Already on the record that I don't like secret groups and governments hiding the truth, manipulating things and deciding what's best for me.

But we only have an overview of their motivations and it is possible that their actions were necessary and proportionate.

I doubt it, but we do still need to find and assess the threat.

I'm sure there will be some of us who agree that what was done was necessary and would sign up. Others who will never agree with what they did and want justice. And others who will want to forget the past even if temporarily to deal with the threat. And yes a few who will welcome their alien overlords with open arms.

All I can judge at the moment is that there was/is a threat, and a group has used exactly the kind of tactics I hate to address it apparently for the good of humanity. I can't decide yet if my hatred of these tactics should be put aside in this case yet, as I don't have enough information.

Problem is, I don't know if that information exists in game yet to find.

Next time, it'd be nice if Frontier went to some lengths to include other elements, as previously mentioned by me (and others) in such story lines. Whereas Salome, I believe, was memory wiped due to going out into the Formidine Rift, no one else was bothered in the slightest for going to an area the superpowers were supposedly trying to keep things secret - all others could come and go as they pleased. Highly unlikely that the three superpowers - or whomever is involved - would allow roaming explorers to go unmolested if they were serious about protecting this supposed big secret. Anyway, that's about all I'll say on the matter. Anyone know when the next release of Elite will be - hopefully not too long?

We do need to consider the possibility that this is all a fabrication. The threat, the conspiracy, the logs, the messages, none of it may be real.

(That's part of the reason I suggested the whole Council of Independent Commanders / round table thing with other parties brought into the discussion and allowed to have their say.)

For general possible candidates, I'll add to the list:
- the returned missing
- the AIs that never left
- the people that arranged Jason Ryder's assassination
 
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That cat looks seriously cheesed off!

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Until confirmed in ED, it's to be considered as mythology.

Everything seem to fit though. Very few inconsistencies so far.

Everything in ED is in line with the old lore, but parts of the old lore is not in line with ED.

And this is my problem-I don't understand any of the "history" that I should have learnt in 3250 pre-flight school!
 
All the clues point to the Dark Wheel.

Kahina left the Dark Wheel medallion in Achenar. Where did she get it? She was not an Elite pilot and therefor not a member. Did Rebecca give it to her?

Teorge points squarely at Elyssia Fields. While not an Elite pilot her self, Elyssia made most of the kills Alex Ryder was credited for. Everything Alex knew, she knew.

I think Jason Ryder was killed because he knew what Rebecca and Salomè later learned. He probably had plans to talk about what he had seen on Raxxla.

CEIP, Sirius Corporation and INRA may also be aware of the situation, but I think the Dark Wheel is the key.

I suspect the Dark Wheel are the conspirators, and have infiltrated everywhere-Pilot's Federation, Sirius Corp, Wreaken Construction, Empire, Federation, Alliance. I also think Luko is a member and tried to recruit Salome, but she wasn't having part of any conspiracy hence left the medallion behind to go off & ascertain the truth. That's why she had to be killed (by an Elite combateer?), she was just getting too close to exposing them.

Edit: I don't think the Dark Wheel would just recruit Elite ranks. They would want to get people at an earlier age, in more junior ranks where they might get less-filtered intel and be able to apply their influencewith less questions. They probably know Salome was a clone of Rebecca Weston who was an Elite combateer, and therefore Salome had that inherent genetic potential.
 
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Unless it's an imperial med-pod and a certain black tape was used beforehand.

And there we have the exit strategy. ;)
Find a suitable dead body for Salomé. Fix the body, download her memory back into the body. Now we have somebody else - not Salomé - but with Salomé inside.

Basically Salomé pulling an Octavia. (Sounds strangely like something involving czech cars)

Put her in Harry's body lmao
 
Oh, he is one of them then.
That's rather unfortunate, I started to like his sense of humor.

*writs down a name onto a list*

*Picks up com*
Guys, Drew Carnegie is Kappa Omega Sigma. Repeat, Kappa Omega Sigma!

You'll have the PPS (Penguin Protection Sociey) on your six!

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I'm not necessarily saying it's the Dark Wheel that organized the Dynasty expedition. I'm not even sure they killed Jason Ryder. What I mean is that they have the knowledge.
They knew what was going on, on Raxxla. They knew the Thargoids. They knew the capability of the 'Elyssia line' of Teorge clones.

If someone wanted organize a huge secret project like the Dynasty expedition, they would surely consult the Dark Wheel. I think Rebecca got involved through the Dark Wheel, not INRA.

It is possible, possibly even likely, that the Dark Wheel also infiltrated INRA

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Neither can I, but he does appear to be on the Rifter pilot roster from way back last year (the locked copy on Dommaarraa's spreadsheet.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...XJG82o-Iy-hQ/edit?pref=2&pli=1#gid=1919646398

And where has Dommaarraa got to? Is he still around??
 
Guys, you're all burying the lead here. Drew Carnegie is in the book! Woo! Congrats Drew~


BTW when will you credit the players who portrayed the NPCs, other Drew?

Boldly Looking Into Many Extrasolar Yarns.

Mother of God, it's beautiful.
 
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If someone wanted organize a huge secret project like the Dynasty expedition, they would surely consult the Dark Wheel. I think Rebecca got involved through the Dark Wheel, not INRA.

Would the Dark Wheel help someone with a project like the Dynasty expedition? I'm not convinced that an ultra secretive organization would get involved in something like that - unless it's in their interest.
How would the organizers of the Dynasty expedition contact the Dark Wheel?
To me it looks again like in that scenario the Dark Wheel would be those who establish contact.

Rebecca would have betrayed the Dynasty expedition and the Dark Wheel by revealing the "truth". And if it was in the interest of the Dark Wheel, then why didn't they protect her?

I'm not trying to convince you that you are wrong. I'm just trying to see how your ideas fit with what little I know. Mentally turning around pieces of information and looking in what plot hole they might fit.

I need to re-read some old lore.
 
Just a thought about the logs... when they speak of manufacturing a fake war, does she mean the current "sabre-rattling", or the war with the Thargoids... or both ;)

Perhaps the Thargoids were never a threat in the slightest. Perhaps they don't even exist and have only been fabricated using reverse engineered Guardian technology...

Rubbish aluminium-foil... I think I need proper tin... to the Spock-mobile!... erm, I mean SRV. :D
 
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You didn't have to fly with him, was ultimately your choice.

Last night on Lave Radio we had Commanders Eisen and Baroness Galaxy from the Children of Raxxla and were directly involved with escorting Salomé along with Cmdr Paroxsym who was one of PAC's Fleet Admirals. In short whilst the SDC were 'in' PAC they were not trusted and had no 'special' information. Salomé's defenders had unfortunate technical issues and HP got lucky with the instancing gods... He could of course see her since he was on Salomé's friends list but then many many people were to help with the instancing. If you want to hear the words from their own mouths (and the emotion from the poor guys) have a listen to the episode https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/68sg8n/lave_radio_salomé_aftermath_special/

Cmdr Eid LeWeise
 
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