Elite: Harmless - Karma System aka "be the Tamagotchi" - FRESH SALT, MINED RIGHT HERE

Morbad

Morbad
While I think many aspects of the proposed system are dangerously ill conceived, especially equating disconnections and other forms of cheating with legitimate in-game activities, if such a system does come to pass, I am looking forward to the challenge of achieving the greatest negative karma possible.

I honestly would not be inconvenienced in the slightest by not having insurance and only being able to use anarchy starports.
 

Lobey

Lobey
Well, no doubt those who really don't like it will all rage quit and we won't see them anymore or have to listen to them.... I'm failing to see a downside here :p
In reality the determined will still probably find a way to be annoying if they can - maybe have to work a little harder at it, and while having some consequences will be good, I doubt FDev (or any other game developer) will have the nerve to actually implement anything that will be more than a mild inconvenience.

TLDR - Griefers will have to "Git Gud" to be able to grief in future :p
 

dognosh

dognosh
From the replies, it looks like the OP's purpose of getting sympathy for his views on the karma system being a bad thing backfired.

Just like real life, there should be consequences for law breaking. My worries are how we can implement a system that is fair, but allows deviant gameplay too.

Yes bring a system in, but allow lawlessness gameplay of sorts for those who want it.
 

babelfisch

babelfisch
dognosh said:
From the replies, it looks like the OP's purpose of getting sympathy for his views on the karma system being a bad thing backfired.

Just like real life, there should be consequences for law breaking. My worries are how we can implement a system that is fair, but allows deviant gameplay too.

Yes bring a system in, but allow lawlessness gameplay of sorts for those who want it.
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I think anarchies could provide this. But they need to give players more incentives to go there. Very high paying missions to anarchy systems, better prices for commodities, etc.

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CATPAIN KIRK said:
Is there a crosspost of the article linked in the OP? I refuse to visit reddit.
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Click on the Frontier logo in the top right on his post and it'll guide you through ~20 comments made by Sandro:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/349769-Deliberate-Ramming?p=5476362#post5476362
 

Morbad

Morbad
In my opinion, the really interesting question, is one I have already asked: should it be OK to destroy much weaker ships? How important is this to folk?
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This is another aspect of the potential system that annoys me. Why should it matter if the victim is supposedly weaker or stronger, as far as law enforcement is concerned?

If I want to 'grief' people, this sort of absurdity is just going to push me into a cascade torpedo + corrosive MC or high-yield cannon FDL to hunt high ranked ranked newbies in their PvE Anaconda. Hell, I could even leave the majority of parts on the FDL unmodified and still destroy 90% of the CMDR Anaconda I encounter without even taking return fire. Yet, my 'karma' will some how be less affected than if I took my fully engineered vette (which they would likely have time to run from) and attempted the same thing?

The player base seems largely polarized between two ends of the spectrum: either for C&P to make sense (I'm in this camp), or for it to so harshly punish 'non-consensual' PvP as to make it impossible (which I can't help but roll my eyes at).

From what I'm reading, Frontier is going to go off on an utterly different tangent with the tentative C&P/karma system being even more ludicrously hard to suspend one's disbelief over and giving further incentive to disruptive elements to behave in a disruptive manner...all by throwing verisimilitude to the wind and making an even more gamist system that will encourage people to achieve notoriety.
 

askavir

askavir
A Karma system, or an action-consequence system would add lots to the game, if implemented well.

All actions should have lasting repercussions, not necessarily ever-lasting, but lasting. I'm not talking just about ED's usual one-way PvP, I'm talking about all things in game.

- Someone who amasses lots of illegal kills should be hunted down in lawful systems, and denied access to docking and services in the places where the crimes are commited.
- Someone who abandons a powerplay faction should be barred from returning to it for a long time. And should also be barred from joining another for a bit of time, or start at the rock bottom of that faction reputation. Nobody likes turncoats.
- A johnny-do-gooder should not have access to black markets, nor be able to access the best criminal faction missions unless he makes a name for himself first as a shady character.
- If you kill some factions ships to farm bonds, or any other hostile acts against the faction, that faction should be at you, really . They would not allow you to dock in stations they control for quite a while, and reputation should plummet to the ground.
- Superpower ranking should be exclusive.

I could go on forever...

Right now nothing that we do has consequences beyond a short term minor inconvenience at best.

If this incoming karma system is just to police things like station trolling, or is applied only to player-player actions, then meh...
 
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Zyr1987

Zyr1987
iFred said:
All this development time just to prevent 0,00000000000000001% of the players to behave like idiots.
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I think yo8u may have exceeded the world's population with that percentage :p

But, as they say, a few bad apples spoil the bunch. Or in this case, a few bad players ruin the game for quite a few other players.
 

nosleepdemon

nosleepdemon
iFred said:
All this development time just to prevent 0,00000000000000001% of the players to behave like idiots.
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Don't worry, they'll declare the station slot a "toxic" mechanic next, followed by the act of docking. By the time they're finished, Elite will just be one giant, open, endless void where nothing bad can happen; a safe space, if you will.
 

Vandaahl

Vandaahl
nosleepdemon said:
Don't worry, they'll declare the station slot a "toxic" mechanic next, followed by the act of docking. By the time they're finished, Elite will just be one giant, open, endless void where nothing bad can happen; a safe space, if you will.
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You guys really have problems reading. You can finally be the bad synonym for donkey you always wanted to be And be recognized as such by the game AND fix combat logging in the process. Thats a tripple win!1

Thinking that over for a sec, this brings combat loggers down to the same level as seal clubbers. Hmm...

Maybe you are right. Boo. His.
 

Marc_Hicks

Marc_Hicks
dognosh said:
From the replies, it looks like the OP's purpose of getting sympathy for his views on the karma system being a bad thing backfired.

Just like real life, there should be consequences for law breaking. My worries are how we can implement a system that is fair, but allows deviant gameplay too.

Yes bring a system in, but allow lawlessness gameplay of sorts for those who want it.
Click to expand...

That is what Anarchy & Low Security systems are for ;).

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askavir said:
A Karma system, or an action-consequence system would add lots to the game, if implemented well.

All actions should have lasting repercussions, not necessarily ever-lasting, but lasting. I'm not talking just about ED's usual one-way PvP, I'm talking about all things in game.

- Someone who amasses lots of illegal kills should be hunted down in lawful systems, and denied access to docking and services in the places where the crimes are commited.
- Someone who abandons a powerplay faction should be barred from returning to it for a long time. And should also be barred from joining another for a bit of time, or start at the rock bottom of that faction reputation. Nobody likes turncoats.
- A johnny-do-gooder should not have access to black markets, nor be able to access the best criminal faction missions unless he makes a name for himself first as a shady character.
- If you kill some factions ships to farm bonds, or any other hostile acts against the faction, that faction should be at you, really . They would not allow you to dock in stations they control for quite a while, and reputation should plummet to the ground.
- Superpower ranking should be exclusive.

I could go on forever...

Right now nothing that we do has consequences beyond a short term minor inconvenience at best.

If this incoming karma system is just to police things like station trolling, or is applied only to player-player actions, then meh...
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Definitely not *ever*-lasting, but definitely lasting enough to be consequential.
 

Morbad

Morbad
Vandaahl said:
AND fix combat logging in the process.
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On the contrary, this is moving from tacit, if grudging, acceptance to overt legitimization, of something that has formally been declared a cheat.

Reducing ToS violations to the level of a purely in-character offense will be a horrible precedent to set, if this change comes to pass.
 
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GreyAreaUK

GreyAreaUK
Marc_Hicks said:
That is what Anarchy & Low Security systems are for ;).

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Definitely not *ever*-lasting, but definitely lasting enough to be consequential.
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There also needs to be a good reason for players to be in Anarchy and LowSec systems. High-paying missions for other players to go to those systems spring to mind. Hunters have to have prey, after all.
 
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CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost

C
And 6 pages of discussion about something that will never get introduced and if something gets introduced it will be watered down to something that is unrecognizable as a "crime and punishment system" or "karma system".

Keep going, I need more salt.
 
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