I can't wait until they roll out this crime and punishment system and absolutely nothing changes. The salt will keep me in Fish and Chips for decades!
Elite: Harmless - Karma System aka "be the Tamagotchi" - FRESH SALT, MINED RIGHT HERE
- Thread starter ranje
- Start date
And they will adjust it until it does change something. You have to have a tool in place before you can make changes to it. The utter lack of a system means nothing can ever be done. So your attempted jabs and quips dont mean much. Continue to Troll.
It's not a troll. The C&P system in Eve is brutal. If you attack somebody in high security space, your ship is destroyed by CONCORD, guaranteed. When you lose a ship in Eve, you don't rebuy it for 6% of the cost, you pay full whack or you insure it beforehand for a considerable sum and are paid the value of the materials (minerals) that made up your ship. If you continue to attack people in Empire space (i.e. non "anarchy" systems) your security status, or "karma" as it will be in ED, takes a hit. It can get so low that it becomes pretty much impossible to enter high security space as the faction police will chase you down and destroy you if they catch you and they always know where you are.
Do you think the C&P system in ED will ever be that brutal? I don't. Do people still get ganked in high security systems in Eve? Yes they do, all the time. Given that I don't believe the C&P system in ED will be anywhere near as brutal as Eve's and the fact that you can buy your ship back for a pathetically low amount, I really don't believe it will make a discernible difference to peoples experiences in open play, particularly in so called "griefing hotspots" such as CG's and the like.
Gankers will always gank, it's just what they do. No amount of in game consequences will stamp it out altogether. The best you could hope for is a slight to moderate reduction, but for that you would have to impose some pretty hefty penalties and I don't believe FD are willing to take it that far.
I think Sandro said something like "We will make it very difficult to play the game." Not sure exactly what his plans are but it doesn't sound like nothing will change. I'm not expecting it will be that difficult to play but it could get very tedious to be constantly interdicted in non anarchy systems.
Yep they do get ganked in High security systems. Then the ganker either escapes from the security or they dont. If they dont get killed by the security and the bounty is high enough, then its usually a friend that takes you out. If its not a friend that takes you out and its just a bounty hunter. You have to hope they dont POD you and kill all your implants in the process. Nothing like waking up out of the goo of the cloning station.
You also lose your ship and anything on it or associated with it. The ships also cost much less. That is a proper C&P system. You get what you give.
However elite dangerous does not allow or really have the ability of AFK gaming like Eve does. Elite does not have a secondary economy with in game currency that is wrapped up in Real Life Currency. The stakes are only as high as you want to pay for them.
There has been no proposal or punishment put forth by any side of the argument that gets anywhere near the level of Punishment you get in Eve. Yes people have rightfully suggest at some point, you lose your ship. In Eve its not at some point. Its any point. Any reason at all can cost you your ship.
People like yourself are saying that any punishment wont be harsh enough for their actions. That they should be responsible for nothing and everyone else who paid for this game is their game content. Thats going to be stopped by the new system and you will have to live with it. Or not. It doesnt matter really. Either way its is not Eve and yes if the punishment is not harsh enough they said it would be adjusted until it gave the desired effect of realism.
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Here's what I'm expecting to happen: a new C&P system will get rolled out in a beta, with instructions that we should got forth and gank to test it out. There will be bugs (because beta) and this will be used by the usual suspects to demonstrate how OP this thing is. Bottomless threads will discuss at length how this nerfs all sorts of legitimate playstyles, quoting things said by DBOBE back in Alpha, "it says Dangerous right in the name" and "hunt other commanders". The beta will go on for a couple of weeks, and then Ed or Sandro will make a post saying that C&P needs more refining, and it will get put in the back burner for months while they work on other stuff.
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And I'm not speaking of them or judging the choice. I'm simply saying that there are some who want open to be like mobius which would kill the experience that others play in open for.
Sure, and there are those who want this game to have an iron man only mode that applies to everyone. These aren't voices that will have any real effect on what the Devs do.
The only person who has stated that everyone wants open to be like Mobius so far has been people who want no consequences for their actions. Nobody else here wants Mobius in Open. If we did, then we would just be in Mobius now wouldnt we?
How is everybody doing? I've been away all day and now I'm wondering if I need to get my stick and give this hornet's nest, er, thread a good whack to get things going again.
Everything working soothly and according to plan.
More members for mobius and a lot of salt to be farmed.
Feel free to put your stick into a hornet's nest, but don't complain if the hornets sting your stick…
No, you can't evade CONCORD. You lose your ship, no question. If you do manage to evade CONCORD it's considered an exploit and will get you banned. You also don't get bounties in Eve, unless another player puts one on you, so there's nothing for anybody to gain by killing you, other than the satisfaction of course
Last time I checked, a fully mission fit Golem was around 2 billion, but that was a fair few years ago, probably more now.
Indeed it is and yet highsec ganking is still a pretty common occurence. Had it happen to me a few times and dished it out a few as well.
Not sure what you're driving at there. ISK is easier to come by? Sure, you can buy PLEX and sell it, if you want to, but ratting and mission running in Eve is much less profitable than ED in terms of earnings per hour, even if you're running level 5's.
I don't believe any level of punishment will be enough to stop determined gankers, because even if a determined ganker were to be hounded by security to the point where the game was unplayable they would simply buy another account and do it all again.
I think we're still having fun. But I can't say for certain.
![[VR] Merkir](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/141/141091.jpg?1553527154){kind=avatar}
Not sure about fun, but it was constructive up until yesterday. Then a few trolls entered and... well... for some reason the constructive people are feeding them. Weird.
Technically I left nothing. I'm playing my game with 40.000 others. I stopped caring about the rest.
Karma system raises your rebuy cost for killing clean pilots + Pirating requires the threat of death to illicit compliance = death of "honest" pirating = the fun threat and challenge that is open vanishing.
This is what happens if something that should be covered by C&P alone gets taken over by an overly aggressive Karma system. It needs to account for this somehow and as of now it doesn't!
That isn't true. I want a more aggressive C&P system. I just don't want legitimate gameplay to suddenly be a Karmic bad because that will kill it. Because of that perspective people keep accusing me of being a griefer who doesn't want consequences, which drives me to the conclusion that they just never want to be shot at by a player and think anyone who shoots at anyone is a psychopathic griefer.
Which is why it's completely fair to ask people in this thread to say what they think a griefer is. Very few of the loudest voices have bothered to answer that question.
Being ready to accept the consequences of becoming a murderer is part and parcel of being a pirate. Piracy desperately needs a strong incentive to avoid destroying ships in order to prevent it being used as a flimsy cover for griefing anyway.
Plus, the existence of hatch breakers suggests that forcing "compliance" isn't an essential part of piracy in the Elite universe. Hatch breakers just need a buff so that cargo is dropped in a cluster rather than a long trail, then pirates would be able to take cargo by force without running afoul of the karma system. The real pirates would be perfectly happy with that solution, and anybody who would prefer to destroy a ship and gain nothing than forcibly extract cargo from it doesn't deserve to be called a pirate in the first place.
PvP is not implicitly griefing, but griefing/ganking is implicitly PvP. It is the griefing/ganking and comparable PvP behaviours that the karma system seems to be intended to address. Those who engage in excessive amounts of unbalanced PvP with the sole intent to kill the weaker clean target though are tantamount to being griefers/gankers even if that is allegedly not their self professed intent.
Pirates in a much stronger position than their opponents should not habitually kill their opponents, if they are able to kill them easily then they are more than capable of non-critically disabling them and should do that instead.
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We're using the same definition as FD.
But I would hardly call it "hiding in a closet." I wanted to play the game my way and mobius accomplishes that goal quite well. It's my choice, and if you don't like it, go listen to "Kick Me" by Sleeping with Sirens. Its my go to response. Or "Middle Fingers" by Missio.