Quince is even more broken than we tought

[Lobstris]

Running missions that the game offers you to do is not an exploit.

Deal with it.

It might not be an exploit, but it, like the other disasters before it (rares, Robigo, Sothis, Ceos, passenger missions), seems to point with FDev having difficulties balancing anything effectively, not thinking things through, and then leaving such legal loopholes in for far to long, to the detriment of the game.

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Land on a small pad? Small fee. Land on a large pad? Large fee.

You jest, but time-based berthing fees were in the previous two games. I see no reason why such fees (and things like local taxes on trading goods, that can be 'got round' through reputation and NPC interactions) aren't added to the game.

 

[Sardu]

The point is, rebuys AREN'T really that high if you know where to go to farm credits when needed. ...and "exploits" seem to favor the fan base who read the forums....

Blew up my Cutter? Time to hop in my AspX Space Taxi and fly out to Quince so I can run some more Passenger missions in the Beluga I keep there! A couple of hours running passenger missions and I can reconstitute my 45M rebuy base...

Of course, making all this work properly actually requires a player to know how to work the game. You need to know how to build a Space Taxi and how to engineer it. You need to know what type of ship to build to maximize the "exploit". You likely need to know how to buy/store/transfer some modules and possible a ship or two - and you need to know how to coordinate this efficiently (minimizing trips back and forth to the bubble). You need to spend a bit of time flying back and forth to the site of the "exploit" whenever you need to raise some credits. You need to spend some time probably running "exploit" missions you might not normally do.

I learned much more about the workings of this game by gearing up for "exploits" like Quince. ...and I spent some time running missions I might not normally do. I don't think that's a bad thing. Perhaps some of these "exploits" are actually by design and reward for the fan base who participate in the forums....

It's not like Quince is that hard to get to. Around 27 jumps with a 24ly FSD and that takes about..20 minutes ish?

 

[evanevery]

It's not like Quince is that hard to get to. Around 27 jumps with a 24ly FSD and that takes about..20 minutes ish?

I think the whole jump process (from trigger, to boot time, drop out, nav around star, fsd cooldown, etc) takes about 50-60 seconds each. Unless you have a huge oversized fuel scoop (recommended) its going to take more like 30-minutes for those 27 jumps as you will have to stop for fuel several times. (Fuel Scoops weigh nothing so having an oversized one - largest slot - will not compromise your jump range).

13 Jumps from Scirth in my 49LY Engineered AspX Space Taxi. With an oversized 6A fuel scoop and an undersized fuel tank (16T), I can top off at each star as I cruise past without ever stopping or slowing down... Maybe 10-12 mins to get out there?

"Exploits" like Quince ARE the reason I purchased and learned to outfit/engineer my Space Taxi! "Exploits" minimize the monotony and allow me to try things I might never do otherwise... (IMHO)

 

[ballingham]

The only problem with quince is that the missions complete all at once by doing one action, stacking missions isn't a problem (why shouldn't you be able to accept multiple job contracts?).

Someone likened ceos/sothis bio waste couriers to this exploit. they are different in that ceos and sothis made you actually courier a lot of cargo to different locations taking more time and often specialist ships (cargo) to get the most out of the missions available. This was BEARLY an exploit and I think people are getting salty because others are finding ways to make more creds where they made them slower because they didn't know about it and feel as though they are part of some elite race of players that are above the players who use these "exploits".

 

[Saxon Kili]

Sothis/Ceos destroyed Elite. Not.
Robigo destroyed Elite. Not.
Quince...not.

 

[sovapid]

It might not be an exploit, but it, like the other disasters before it (rares, Robigo, Sothis, Ceos, passenger missions), seems to point with FDev having difficulties balancing anything effectively, not thinking things through, and then leaving such legal loopholes in for far to long, to the detriment of the game.

I'm sure it is more an issue of creating a huge procedurally generated galaxy that there will always be edge case outliers that are on the verge of unknowable ahead of time. Just too many permutations to be 100% sure.

And there are probably other Quinces out there waiting to be discovered.

 

[Gorr]

It is good for the game to have places like Quince, or even old long range hauling missions which I am honestly missing.

People struggling to earn enough money for desired ship even after few months of playing will probably just leave the game at some point and I don't think that is good.

Here comes the best part - people having enough money to just buy and outfit desired ships with few rebuys are in exactly the same spot as people that "exploited" game for long enough to have billions of credits.
People swimming in money can do nothing more or better.

 

[ZeroAi]

My two cents - I been to Quince in the last week and it's not really a gold mine.

Yes, a friend of mine is ranked Elite and gets very high payouts per missions, some as high as 3+ million. But at my lower rank I largest I've seen is 1.7 and that's rare.

Also, the scan missions don't spawn nearly as often, and lately when I go into PG there are none for days.

So I do think it is broken on several levels but also believe we need honest ways to make money in the game that provides for regular progression, and barring that places like Quince will remain popular.

 

[AbsinthSvK]

It is dead? Lock-down status stopped missions?

 

[desertwind]

Of course it's cheating and of course it also effects other players. If the open game becomes full of players flying top tier ships due to exploits / cheats such as this then the open game has changed due to a direct result of said cheats. Vet players being ganked by noobs in powerful ships... yeah of course those cheaters are only cheating themselves.... right...

Vet players should not be ganked by noobs in the first place.

https://yahooeysblog.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/tom-waits-bad-writing.jpg

Boy, i love you!

Let them play....

If Money is everything in ED for them, let them play....

Rep +2 for you.

Why do certain players want so much to enforce their playing style upon others, its something i will never understand, specially in a sandbox game like Elite.
Quince is, like Sothis and Robigo were, just a difference of opinion between players with different play styles.

And noobs dont do Quince, at least not yet. You need to grasp a lot of this game before you can go to a system like Quince.

As far as I have seen on the forums there are players who enjoy a survial-space-game experience and others not. The question 1 is: how many of said "cheaters" stay in-game long enough to make a difference? Question 2: Is is worth it to spend a lot of time to grind for a ship for exemple, to test it and realise that is not what you wished for and you have wasted your time in-game? Or to try to test it faster because you still need to grind for the upgrades or rebuy.

Not really, but in the same way that a casino calls the exploit of card counting "cheating" others will rightly (imo) call this exploit cheating also. Cheating after all is characterised by the following:

'To act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage'

The act: the use of an exploit
The advantage: The profit and what is purchased with the said profit.

Is EDH a gambling game? If so... the bank always win Give me that 7 baby!!!! Just joking here [big grin]

By its very definition, cheating would be gaining an advantage over the rest of the player base via a method not available to all. This isn't the case here.
It's certainly an exploit and I presume that FD will address it in due course. I certainly don't think that you can call it dishonest.

(Disclaimer: I spent a few hours at Quince stocking up the Vette rebuy fund before total and utter boredom set in and I left.)

Rep +1

Running missions that the game offers you to do is not an exploit.

Deal with it.

Rep + 2

Obviously we should do in game what is done in the real world - a progressive Marxist income tax! The more you make, the more you are taxed. This way we can redistribute wealth to the screaming proletariat.

And to make sure people don't just start doing cargo missions, we'll add a VAT tax to cargo. And don't think we'll allow a loophole with data either. Run a courier mission and we'll tax data too. And we'll tax your galactic-internet. Access the galaxy map? Pay a fee. Hyperjump? Pay a fee. Can't let those explorers get away without paying their fair share. Land on a small pad? Small fee. Land on a large pad? Large fee.

You will be forced to buy a new Tax Module for each of your ships to compute the tax. And since tax law in 3303 is quite complex, I expect this to be at least a size 3 module.

Laughed so hard on that one . Rep + 3

Actually, it's "using etc to gain an advantage over other players", There is no advantage being gained by someone who's been playing for two weeks suddenly having the money and rank for a Cutter.

They have no major rank (the tree of three), they have no skill flying said ship because all they've flown at that point is maybe a Sidewinder and a Hauler. They have no engineered assets and cannot buy them with their fat little wallets and those of us who've been playing for months/years have an exponentially higher knowledge of the game and its various mechanics.

So.. where is the advantage?

Good point. Rep +2

Credits are balanced around rebuy not ship cost.

10 year plan does not mean "10 years to earn an Anaconda"

This is the truth. Also see above.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to troll but Quince is not the problem here, but the view the players have around EDH: a hard-core survival game or a more casual, more time accessible game.

And last: If GRIND = FUN, and QUINCE = GRIND (because you still need to grind for it) then QUINCE = FUN
If GRIND =/= FUN and QUINCE = GRIND then QUINCE =/= FUN

 

[ilmostro]

Is Millerport spawning scan missions again?

 

[Crank Larson]

Is Millerport spawning scan missions again?

Dunno, go and take a look.

It was in lockdown on Tuesday, that's all I know. Given that, it may well have flipped over again by now (you want two factions to be in civil war to get decent scan missions).

 

[ilmostro]

Dunno, go and take a look. .

It wasn't in lockdown when I went there earlier, but It wasn't spawning missions either. Can't get there now as I keep getting a transaction server error everytime I go into SC.

 

[Bryan K]

It wasn't in lockdown when I went there earlier, but It wasn't spawning missions either. Can't get there now as I keep getting a transaction server error everytime I go into SC.

Millerport is dead, but Jefferies' High is still going strong. Stronger than Millerport in the past, in my experience. You can find a full 20 scan missions there at once in a good instance, not to mention good massacre missions. I found a massacre mission last night worth 15 mil.

 

[evanevery]

My two cents - I been to Quince in the last week and it's not really a gold mine.

Yes, a friend of mine is ranked Elite and gets very high payouts per missions, some as high as 3+ million. But at my lower rank I largest I've seen is 1.7 and that's rare.

Also, the scan missions don't spawn nearly as often, and lately when I go into PG there are none for days.

So I do think it is broken on several levels but also believe we need honest ways to make money in the game that provides for regular progression, and barring that places like Quince will remain popular.

Quince payout is "not that good"?

You can easily earn 7M/trip (10 min) stacking pass missions in Quince using a modestly equipped Beluga. (...and NOT having to risk taking criminals) That's pretty damn good I think... (42M/Hr with NO risk) With a bit of forethought (gasp) you will want to transfer/import a couple of high end Passenger Modules, but you really don't need much else (no other weaps or module upgrades required) to optimize your earnings...

So, if you don't think that's exceptionally good, I'ld like to know what you're comparing it to!

 

[Truesilver]

Millerport is dead, but Jefferies' High is still going strong. Stronger than Millerport in the past, in my experience. You can find a full 20 scan missions there at once in a good instance, not to mention good massacre missions. I found a massacre mission last night worth 15 mil.

Are these scan missions a reliable way of getting CIF?

 

[Kyokushin]

Relogo again.

Dear FDev, you are still trying to build a house on sand.
Phillars of Elite are broken, there is an architecture issue.

Architecture of mission server is broken. There will be again and against similar exploits if you will do not change architecture.

I wrote about it here:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/347320-How-to-please-everyone-and-reduce-forum-rage
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/346789-RELOGO-Massacre-stacking
and in other few places

Current expoits caused by wrong architecture:
- Robigo
- Draconis
- Quince
- Rank progress
- charity missions
- scan relogo
- firmware relogo

Still not enough?
Good. Then it will be more if You will not fix it from the deep.

Please fix that cancer by changing architecture. Patching what you have now is bandaging a broken knee.

 

[fruitbat]

Are these scan missions a reliable way of getting CIF?

I tried for a bit and didn't really rate it particularly better than the normal base scanning (3 particular layouts I use) in the bubble. This is just due to the low rng rate for spawning CIF on the small scan mission bases. Sure there's a lot more to scan quicker, but with less drop rate, so meh.

Of course you can make crazy money at the same time at quince, but I was more interested in CIF so left.

 

[evanevery]

Relogo again.

Dear FDev, you are still trying to build a house on sand.
Phillars of Elite are broken, there is an architecture issue.

Architecture of mission server is broken. There will be again and against similar exploits if you will do not change architecture.

I wrote about it here:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/347320-How-to-please-everyone-and-reduce-forum-rage
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/346789-RELOGO-Massacre-stacking
and in other few places

Current expoits caused by wrong architecture:
- Robigo
- Draconis
- Quince
- Rank progress
- charity missions
- scan relogo
- firmware relogo

Still not enough?
Good. Then it will be more if You will not fix it from the deep.

Please fix that cancer by changing architecture. Patching what you have now is bandaging a broken knee.

So Saith the Disciples of Elite. Truly, I am not worthy....

 

[Karunamon]

Please fix that cancer by changing architecture. Patching what you have now is bandaging a broken knee.

You say broken, I say only sane payouts in the game. Earning your way to an A 'Conda at 100K per mission is not a reasonable use of the player's time.