Can the Cobra engine handle detailed populated planets with cities?

[GG7]

It's not, actually.

Winver says Version 1703 for me....

FYI: MS still updates previous versions of Win10 with the same Cumulative Updates.

I don't use 1703 because there are too many issues for gaming still unresolved. So... I am running the latest version of 1511 which I believe was last updated two-three weeks ago.

1511 is the most stable version of 10 for gaming currently available.

 

[CapuchinSeven]

May not help!

I've got a brand new EVGA 1080ti FTW3 overclocked to 2070mhz boost clock and my game still stutters and drops frames when I drop into a station, or come out of glide over a planetary base. At 1080p 60hz no less!

This card is a total monster with all my other games. Games far more demanding than ED graphically. Yet, my 1080ti still gets worked hard by this game even when I am sitting at a station reading Galnet!

Most of this is down to poor optimization of the Cobra Engine, but perhaps that is baked into the code and no level of additional tweaking can get it to output it's largely pedestrian assets to a modern GPU at the level most modern games do as a matter of course in 2017. ??

I must say I was really shocked the first time I saw dropped frames in ED with this OCed 1080ti. Only game I own to have done so at 1080p 60hz.

I have an overclocked 1080GTX with an overclocked i7 and run in VR and the game is pretty much smooth as silk.

 

[Foxiol Eagle]

WOW! I thought I had it bad!

I don't see anything close to that much hitching and frame drops with even my 980ti, but this does clearly demonstrate precisely what the problem is in a very dramatic way.

And to all you arm chair PC experts out there advising me that these issues are related to my system...

PLEASE STOP!

You have NO IDEA what you are talking about, and if you actually took the time to READ my previous posts, I detailed ALL of my system components as well as my resolution.

For the reading challenged... Here is a brief recap:

1080p @ 60Hz
ASUS Z170 DLX Mobo (latest Bios)
512GB Samsung 950 Pro M.2 NVMe SSD (boot drive with ED installed on same)
32Gigs of Corsair Vengeance DDR4 Ram at 2800mhz
Intel Core i7 6700k @ 4.6 Ghz OC
EVGA FTW3 1080ti OCed to 2070mhz Boost clock
Windows 10 v1511 (latest version)
Nvidia Drivers (latest version)

Nvidia Control Panel: Performance preferred | DSR x 4 | All other usual performance modes enabled with SMAA enabled

ED settings: ULTRA/HIGH settings across the board with Supersampling set to 2.0

Monitoring software: EVGA Precision XOC (1080ti version)

And as I have mentioned dozens of times already...

NO OTHER GAME IN MY LIBRARY HAS ANY FPS ISSUES with the 1080ti... PERIOD!

Sheesh! You can cut the cluelessness with a knife in this thread.

Playing at 4K with Supersampling at 2X...lol!! Or perhaps since you have your CPU and GPU overclocked, maybe you could have a throttling issue somewhere (if not the CPU or GPU, maybe the VRM's as I had in the past with a motherboard without proper heat dissipation for them) because of temperatures. "Is not happening in my other games" has nothing to do since games behave and use hardware in different ways judging by my own experience, I had throttling issues in The Witcher 3 and Fifa 16 after I got new hardware, but then in my other 200+ games no problem (Elite included), "undervolted" my CPU and solved the issue since VRM's won't get to the temp limit anymore.

You may think that by having enough money to buy the "best of the best" means that you'll run everything like a dream...well let me tell you that's not true in the world we live in sadly. It should be like that but is not.

There is more complexity in a graphics engine that you may think, aside from how the game or any game looks graphically speaking. Elite Dangerous is an always online game, there is data that is being transferred at all times, and multiple stuff going on in the background. The scale alone compared to "the other games you play without any FPS issues" is of no comparison at all. Most of those performance issues are caused by multiple factors compared to most of those games out there. Again, the open world aspect of it, the tons of calculations for the physics alone, AI's, data, information sent/transmitted/received while connected online, multiple players in the server/instance, etc.

I play in Solo like 99% of the time and I have a single stutter every time I drop into a new system in front of the start, and that's about it. Then the game has (as in any other game) a variable frame rate depending where you are or how heavy is the scene (from 200FPS in open space to 90FPS on planets) but gameplay is as smooth as it can get. No stutters, nothing that can make me rage as hard as you here.

Try to use Supersampling at 1X like a real gamer with common sense will do at 4K resolution (because you don't need that much of Anti Aliasing for that density in pixel count...) and perhaps some of those, for sure, minimal performance issues should go away.

Don't pretend you know more than other because you have better hardware. Money won't make you smarter.

 

[GG7]

Playing at 4K with Supersampling at 2X...lol!! Or perhaps since you have your CPU and GPU overclocked, maybe you could have a throttling issue somewhere (if not the CPU or GPU, maybe the VRM's as I had in the past with a motherboard without proper heat dissipation for them) because of temperatures. "Is not happening in my other games" has nothing to do since games behave and use hardware in different ways judging by my own experience, I had throttling issues in The Witcher 3 and Fifa 16 after I got new hardware, but then in my other 200+ games no problem (Elite included), "undervolted" my CPU and solved the issue since VRM's won't get to the temp limit anymore.

You may think that by having enough money to buy the "best of the best" means that you'll run everything like a dream...well let me tell you that's not true in the world we live in sadly. It should be like that but is not.

There is more complexity in a graphics engine that you may think, aside from how the game or any game looks graphically speaking. Elite Dangerous is an always online game, there is data that is being transferred at all times, and multiple stuff going on in the background. The scale alone compared to "the other games you play without any FPS issues" is of no comparison at all. Most of those performance issues are caused by multiple factors compared to most of those games out there. Again, the open world aspect of it, the tons of calculations for the physics alone, AI's, data, information sent/transmitted/received while connected online, multiple players in the server/instance, etc.

I play in Solo like 99% of the time and I have a single stutter every time I drop into a new system in front of the start, and that's about it. Then the game has (as in any other game) a variable frame rate depending where you are or how heavy is the scene (from 200FPS in open space to 90FPS on planets) but gameplay is as smooth as it can get. No stutters, nothing that can make me rage as hard as you here.

Try to use Supersampling at 1X like a real gamer with common sense will do at 4K resolution (because you don't need that much of Anti Aliasing for that density in pixel count...) and perhaps some of those, for sure, minimal performance issues should go away.

Don't pretend you know more than other because you have better hardware. Money won't make you smarter.

Please!

My CPU never gets above 35C with this game in these problem areas. GPU never hits 50C. VRMs are well below spec heat limits. Not even 50% of.

Like I said before PLEASE STOP!

Just admit the game has a serious flaw in these areas regarding the game engine and needs to be better optimized.

Apologists... WHY? What is the point in denying something so blatantly obvious? [wacko]

If I am wrong, the game stays the same. If I am right and FD addresses it, the game engine gets an update and everybody wins.

Think about it the next time you blindly start shooting the messengers who take the time to point out these issues.

Regarding MY system and MY experience in IT... You know nothing of which you speak my friend...NOTHING!

[rolleyes]

 

[Noddie]

Given what DB got out of a sinclair spectrum, I'm going to guess he knows a thing or two about code optimisation.

I don't know for sure what causes the performance problems in Elite, but to me it doesn't seem related to gpu or cpu performance as much as network performance. So probably not the game engine.

 

[GG7]

Given what DB got out of a sinclair spectrum, I'm going to guess he knows a thing or two about code optimisation.

I don't know for sure what causes the performance problems in Elite, but to me it doesn't seem related to gpu or cpu performance as much as network performance. So probably not the game engine.

If were a network issue, the numbers would not be the same every time. They would vary, and there would be times when it was worse or didn't happen at all. I am not seeing that at all here.

 

[fennster]

Given what DB got out of a sinclair spectrum, I'm going to guess he knows a thing or two about code optimisation.

I don't know for sure what causes the performance problems in Elite, but to me it doesn't seem related to gpu or cpu performance as much as network performance. So probably not the game engine.

Game engine deals with Network performance. To a certain degree.

I doubt DB has much involvement with ED optimisation these days.

 

[Old Duck]

-- deleted (self moderation) --

 

[ries]

Given what DB got out of a sinclair spectrum, I'm going to guess he knows a thing or two about code optimisation.

I don't know for sure what causes the performance problems in Elite, but to me it doesn't seem related to gpu or cpu performance as much as network performance. So probably not the game engine.

sorry to burst you pretty bubble but DB hasnt coded in decades.

 

[GG7]

I have an overclocked 1080GTX with an overclocked i7 and run in VR and the game is pretty much smooth as silk.

An Apples and Oranges comparison from a hardware perspective. You didn't bother to list your system specs or your Nvidia settings or your in-game settings either... i7 what? What VR rig? What resolution? But...Whatever.

Glad you are not seeing what hundreds of other players are, and have well documented over the last three years.

These issues I and others have pointed out in this thread are just the latest in a long series of game engine issues with ED. The frame drops at bases as I have pointed out at least a dozen times in this thread only surfaced after the 2.3 update. Funny how that works eh? My system doesn't change spec at all when the beta dropped, yet suddenly I am getting major dropped frames in an area that previously ran as you like to say... "Smooth as Silk"

As for some of the previous replies to my posts here... Some of you people are a truly tiresome bunch. You don't read, you don't listen. All you do is finger point and act all arrogant and self righteous towards anyone who tells you something you obviously don't want to hear.

Reminds me of a bunch of know-it-all teenagers, who have obviously seen and done it all. Despite having only existed for less than two decades. [rolleyes]

I'm done with you and this thread.

 

[bitstorm]

For the reading challenged... Here is a brief recap:

1080p @ 60Hz
ASUS Z170 DLX Mobo (latest Bios)
512GB Samsung 950 Pro M.2 NVMe SSD (boot drive with ED installed on same)
32Gigs of Corsair Vengeance DDR4 Ram at 2800mhz
Intel Core i7 6700k @ 4.6 Ghz OC
EVGA FTW3 1080ti OCed to 2070mhz Boost clock
Windows 10 v1511 (latest version)
Nvidia Drivers (latest version)

Nvidia Control Panel: Performance preferred | DSR x 4 | All other usual performance modes enabled with SMAA enabled

ED settings: ULTRA/HIGH settings across the board with Supersampling set to 2.0

Monitoring software: EVGA Precision XOC (1080ti version)

And as I have mentioned dozens of times already...

NO OTHER GAME IN MY LIBRARY HAS ANY FPS ISSUES with the 1080ti... PERIOD!

Sheesh! You can cut the cluelessness with a knife in this thread.

I have almost the same computer as youy but slightly worse, does mine do it?

[video=youtube_share;CFsKacMSimU]https://youtu.be/CFsKacMSimU[/video]

Gotta love the docking lady's Northern accent.

This in 4k, you will have to trust me on that, YT will probably 1080p it.

Was in open, though no-one about.

4k
ASUS Z170-A
Intel 600p 256GM M.2 NVMe (boot) + Sandisk Ultra II 960GB (with ED installed on the secondary)
16GB of Corsair Vengeance DDR4 Ram at 3000mhz
Intel Core i7 6700k @ 4.0Ghz stock
Asus GeForce GTX 1080Ti ROG Strix factory OC
Windows 10 Pro (v1703) (latest version)
Nvidia Drivers (latest version)

ED settings set to Ultra across the board, x1.0 SS but it's running at 4k.

Also had 80 chrome tabs across 7 windows open (just counted them). =p Been doing research on 3d printers.

*closes down some windows*

 

[VR Murgle]

Is it very bad of me to want a certain high-end PC to burst into flames tonight?

 

[Noddie]

sorry to burst you pretty bubble but DB hasnt coded in decades.

You may be right.

I wouldn't usually expect a director to have that much direct technical input, but it's been known. Often they keep a hand in high level technical decisions and may arbitrate disagreements - but that's about it.

 

[NW3]

These issues I and others have pointed out in this thread are just the latest in a long series of game engine issues with ED. The frame drops at bases as I have pointed out at least a dozen times in this thread only surfaced after the 2.3 update. Funny how that works eh? My system doesn't change spec at all when the beta dropped, yet suddenly I am getting major dropped frames in an area that previously ran as you like to say... "Smooth as Silk"

I'm done with you and this thread.

It's odd that your experience is so different from mine. I saw a LOT of hitching when dropping from SC to stations in the past and the 2.3 update greatly IMPROVED the situation for me.

As I mentioned earlier, did you try reducing the graphics quality to High? Are you interested in finding a workable solution or are you just trying to bash FD?

That's not a very nice way to handle a situation where people are trying to help.

 

[dreampage]

You do realise that engine work is an iterative process yes? look at basically any game engine ever, and you can easily, upgrade a game/engine at the same time? so why would they ever make a new elite? simply for new engine?

Maybe there are so many bugs and problems with the current game that it would be better to start from scratch than trying to "fix" this. I don't know, I'm just guessing but Frontier's comment that there would be no "Season 3" makes me think that a brand new game is in development with all the big features (atmospheric planets, walking around, ship and station interiors etc.). The current game was never developed with these things in mind, it was designed as a pure spaceship game. So maybe it's a better idea to develop a brand new game than bolt on some additional features. Maybe the new game will be able to do everything out of the box. Maybe development on Dangerous is so slow because there's Elite 5 in the making at the same time. Again, I don't know but I somehow feel that Dangerous has reached the limit of its potential. A completely new game with massively overhauled gameplay, ships and features would probably create much more buzz than struggling with the current tech.

 

[Kaltern]

Interesting thread.

A few things I thought might help.

* It was mentioned earlier about how a game with a better video card would become worse in performance. That is entirely possible with ED, it dropped DX9 support a while back, and recently dropped Win32 as well. It's absolutely possible that there are some bits of code that are as-yet unoptimised to make full use of DX11.

* You can have the best rig in the known universe, but if you have anything running in the background stealing CPU cycles, it will always cause issues. Talking from experience, I recently had trouble with my Rift stuttering for no obvious reason. Taking the drastic measure of installing a completely clean version of Win 10 Creator Edition onto a space SSD, it greatly improved the FPS. Now, I'm not making a direct comparison to the issues people are talking about here (I myself can run x2.0 SS at max settings etc on my normal windows disk in 2D), what I AM suggesting is that it's quite possible there are things running in the background - and I don't mean normal applications - that might be quietly nicking CPU cycles, causing issues. That's a possibility, not a probability.

* Could be a PSU issue too. I replaced my PSU a couple months ago and I can assure everyone here it made the most ridiculous difference. Which also means I replaced it just in time :O

* It is 100% impossible to subjectively blame another'd hardware for issues when you cannot actually see it for yourself. I see too many people telling other people they have a potato rig just because THEIRS is perfectly fine. That simply isn't helpful to anyone involved.

* The Cobra engine is proved to handle complex structures just fine - just LOOK at the immense detail on stations, they're seriously impressive.

* Atmospheric planet landings - assuming by atmosphere, they don't just mean 'hazy layer between space and ground, and just rocky like usual - it would make a LOT more sense to restrict landings to spaceports as we have now, just a bit... greener. (orwhatever colour the plantlife needs to survive) . Restrict actual exploration to either uninhabited, or planets with a small colony only, and just fill it with trees, water and cliffs etc. Perhaps some wildlife to scan and get paid for, nothing as.. um.. grandiose as NMS tried to be, but just a bit here and there. Fully populated planets teeming with life and cities is a completely pointless waste, as we'd have no business flying there anyway.

This would also make it more viable for consoles.

 

[Foxiol Eagle]

Regarding MY system and MY experience in IT... You know nothing of which you speak my friend...NOTHING!

[rolleyes]

Your ego is as big as Elite's Galaxy, no doubt of it. I rather "know nothing" than be as dramatic as you concerning something as mundane as a game.


Yet I never said that the game is out of issues since I clearly said that I'm still having a stutter while entering in a system every time. But it sure is something related to data transfer and loading the world...which if you think about it, is quite fast still since each system is massive in size with all planets and physics involved. Not everything is rendered at once of course, as in any game.


PS: Try what I said...use 1.0 Supersampling instead of 2.0. With your PC the game should run smooth as it runs for others with similar setups.

Also a fresh install (the game I mean) from time to time could help as well, clean drivers with DDU and install a proper version from Nvidia since latest drivers were quite lame and dropped some performance in some cards. (latest best drivers are 382.05 the one I'm still using, and the previous one 381.89 is the best one when it comes to performance, tested in benchmarks)

 

[NW3]

And to all you arm chair PC experts out there advising me that these issues are related to my system...

PLEASE STOP!

You have NO IDEA what you are talking about, and if you actually took the time to READ my previous posts, I detailed ALL of my system components as well as my resolution.

For the reading challenged... Here is a brief recap:

1080p @ 60Hz
ASUS Z170 DLX Mobo (latest Bios)
512GB Samsung 950 Pro M.2 NVMe SSD (boot drive with ED installed on same)
32Gigs of Corsair Vengeance DDR4 Ram at 2800mhz
Intel Core i7 6700k @ 4.6 Ghz OC
EVGA FTW3 1080ti OCed to 2070mhz Boost clock
Windows 10 v1511 (latest version)
Nvidia Drivers (latest version)

Nvidia Control Panel: Performance preferred | DSR x 4 | All other usual performance modes enabled with SMAA enabled

ED settings: ULTRA/HIGH settings across the board with Supersampling set to 2.0

Monitoring software: EVGA Precision XOC (1080ti version)

And as I have mentioned dozens of times already...

NO OTHER GAME IN MY LIBRARY HAS ANY FPS ISSUES with the 1080ti... PERIOD!

Sheesh! You can cut the cluelessness with a knife in this thread.

Again, have you tested any of those other games with in-game super-sampling to 2.0?

I see the probable issue: According to your info above, you have super-sampling set in both the driver and in-game, so your effective screen resolution is 7680x4320. No wonder you see hitching!

Here's a video of me super-cruising to Jodrell Banks, first in Ultra graphics quality and then in High quality. My system is not nearly as capable as yours and I'm using 4K res with SS=1.0. In Ultra my framerate never drops below 51 FPS and in High it never drops below 56 FPS. In neither case does the lower framerate last for long. Here's my specs:

Operating System: Windows 10 Pro, 64-bit
GPU processor: GeForce GTX 980 Ti
Driver version: 381.65
CPU: Intel i7 4770 @ 3.4 GHz
RAM: 16.0 GB
Disk: 512 GB SSD
Screen Res: 4K (3840x2160)

And here's the video: https://1drv.ms/v/s!Aj2gdTGJyh_31DecrRri6EgY7YlI

 

[Cosmo]

I think we'll get domed cities like in Frontier: Elite II. There might be some procedural generation with the way the city looks to make it more unique.

Then we can fly inside and land on a pad. If we have space legs then we would be able to walk in certain areas with NPC crowds.

The cities of the Federation, Empire and Alliance need to look differently. Such as the architecture, buildings, grid plan etc.

Maybe there are so many bugs and problems with the current game that it would be better to start from scratch than trying to "fix" this.

I disagree and you dramatize the situation.

 

[SAB380]

I think we'll get domed cities like in Frontier: Elite II. There might be some procedural generation with the way the city looks to make it more unique.

Then we can fly inside and land on a pad. If we have space legs then we would be able to walk in certain areas with NPC crowds.

The cities of the Federation, Empire and Alliance need to look differently. Such as the architecture, buildings, grid plan etc.

http://static.wixstatic.com/media/4...c/41f220_702259899e244cf0a9b248dcf3d984d4.png



I disagree and you dramatize the situation.

It'll definitely be something like that.
The eventual atmospheric cities will Just be a bigger variation of the luxury station interiors.

Been saying this since the start. People would get angry at me. One guy ranted that I have no idea what Frontier are capable of and the Empire and Federation capitals could be like the cities from GTAV lol