Alien archeology and other mysteries: Thread 10 - The Canonn

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Thatchinho

Thatchinho
publicstaticvoid said:
So after reading through all the data derived from the sites I think you are correct. While undoubtedly language can be explained numerically it is best to devise a translation manual. Unfortunately this does mean that any data contained in the glyph are awaiting further 'language' discovery. The glyphs are apparently derived from the world around them, like the glyph for moon is said to be derived by the moon rising and falling on thier homeworld. It's almost impossible to derive that with single color 36 pixels where the moon is represented by the motion of the pixels. There are 2^36 possible words these glyphs can mathematically achieve.

The data also states that not only does a glyph represent a word but how it manifests in the context of other glyphs adds additional meaning to the glyph. As much as I would love to be able to sit here for hours on end working towards a solution I fear this one is a dead end for the time being. I could model the words in a binary form and even represent the transformations. But ultimately you still need to know what each glyph truly means in order to unlock the meaning. The equivalence is A ^ B = C where the value A is a binary representation of the word. The Boolean operation ^ and value B represents the operation required to derive the true meaning C. However without knowing what A and B are C (the ultimate meaning) can never be derived.
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Just on the Guardians' language, a while back I did a fairly exhaustive extraction and some analysis is of everything language related from the Ram Tah messages. Includes direct info and also other influencing factors from all the data types. All documented here if anyone's interested:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qc1jaHHP0ETSxycXR1x_6wSfiS1F6yTlxLos2rAVuf0

It's not in the stuff that I put together for the FP as there's not been any peer review as yet and it wouldn't be the done thing to put it up there without it! :)
 
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Thatchinho

Thatchinho
publicstaticvoid said:
Okay guys, sorry to bug you with another post but I think I have had a Eureka moment with the Guardian ruins. A true eureka moment, not a thought. SO my buddy Kris is high as a kite right now and thought it would be a good idea to ask him for an 'abstract' opinion to a situation. I asked him: 'Imagine that you are in a far away country where no one speaks your native language and can't move. They are speaking to you in a foreign language. How do you figure out what the hell they are saying?" He responded, "I'm going to assume/hope you can use your eyes, so you look at an object and keep repeating your word for it, until they start repeating their word for it then you can start building the language." That got me thinking... How do you communicate with the guardian network and tell them your word? The entire basis of this thought experiment was to figure out how to decode the Relic information found here -> https://ixalon.github.io/elitedangerous/

If you haven't guess already we have quite a few items that can elicit a response and patterns from the obelisk. :)

Urn... Totem... Casket... Tablet... Orb...

So how do you decipher their meaning? Well, Each glyph is constructed of 36 different lights, each light is either on or off (1/0) and has many different sequences meaning we can represent this data with binary. There is also a 3rd glyph on the obelisk which i suspect is the AND operation. After all in order to scan the obelisk and decode the data you need to have 'X' AND 'Y' in your cargo hold. Once we figure that out we might be able to begin decoding the relic data found here https://ixalon.github.io/elitedangerous/

:D Please thoughts!
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Lots of thoughts, but the key thing really is whether anything we do changes the patterns on the obelisks. If it does then there's an open avenue for exploration, if it doesn't then the avenue's a no go.

Personally I suspect that looking at things in terms of binary isn't going to be the way to go, and that what we're seeing is more akin to how our writing is shown on a dot matrix display. Just my suspicion at this stage though, and could be wrong! :)
 

WOLFx288

WOLFx288
Masheikh Scytale said:
Wow ! I'd like to know what kind of haul or outfit kept him safe from 'blackout' !
Or...just another bug/glitch?
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I managed to do the same thing actually, just relogged into the same instance, brought my thrusters back online, in this video I fell because I flew too far from the alien and got hit by the blackout again, check some of my other videos
 

salad

salad
Anyone else noticed how the lens flare kinda look like written morse code?
PBNAqLP.png
 

WOLFx288

WOLFx288
CMDR Arguendo said:
They certainly don't seem very hostile. If someone did that to me, I'd be sure to send some accelerated projectiles (and a stream of bad words) their way. Looks more like a docile giant to me.

:D
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Ignoring the obvious, that it was a glitch and it should never have happened, we couldnt even dent their shields, so, I dont think they would care much (it's still something very rude to do though...)
 

publicstaticvoid

publicstaticvoid
Thatchinho said:
Lots of thoughts, but the key thing really is whether anything we do changes the patterns on the obelisks. If it does then there's an open avenue for exploration, if it doesn't then the avenue's a no go.

Personally I suspect that looking at things in terms of binary isn't going to be the way to go, and that what we're seeing is more akin to how our writing is shown on a dot matrix display. Just my suspicion at this stage though, and could be wrong! :)
Click to expand...

Here's the thing Thatch, even the words we are speaking now are converted into binary representation within the computer in many different forms and locations. Infact if you could get down to the nitty gritty pixel size you could also represent words based off whether or not the pixels are one or zero and no two words would be the same. That's the beauty of mathematics and computational theory.

So think of this... If I know that the result of the words 'should' and 'not' combined together equal 'should'nt', then theoretically with the right padding the same AND operation that gave you shoudn't would correctly give you the word 'couldn't'

Words can indeed be represented by bit strings. I'd venture to say that frontier didn't even know what the obelisk words would look like before coding it into the game and they were simply bitstrings to begin with.

Alot is riding on whether the obelisk change when they are presented with offerings. I won't know until I get there and do an inspection of the site.
 
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CMDR MadRaptor

CMDR MadRaptor
Something that might help with your Alien Encounters

Hello, so here is something that seems to be working. Maybe I'm just super lucky lately but who knows.

It seems like Open/Private are the ways to go. Haven't heard many stories of solo CMDRS finding anything.

Now as far as Open/Private, I think that going Private is much better and also keeping your group small. 2 is Ideal, 3 should work but getting more than that and things start to fall apart.

In the last, let's say 4 maybe 5 hours, spread about today and yesterday I've had 5 alien sightings.

It all started when I created my own private group:

Logged in, and scanned a few things, screwed around for about 20 minutes or so. Logged into Solo, scanned and messed around for about 2 - 5 minutes and then logged back into my own private group and bingo! Event right away. Awesome.

So I decided to stick around play around some more, especially cause I was still trying to get the right video footage. So did the same as above. Took a few more tires but once again, the event happened. That made 2 for my newly created group. So I figured I'd leave this site, I was on the B 3 site in the same system that the popular double barnacles are in, and head to the double barnacles. Well a friend popped on so I figure I'd stay and let him come to me and check things out. While I was waiting for him I screwed around like above and just before he arrived....bingo again. Another event happened. That made 3.

After that it was me and my buddy, but nothing, then two others joined my private group and still nothing. though, we didn't try as much as usual.

Cut to this afternoon. Went to the first double barnacle site on A 6, started chatting and met somebody w ho wanted to check out the B 3 site. So we headed that way, stayed in mobius for a bit, but nothing. So I invited him to my private group. We logged in and did the steps above, nothing for about 30 minutes or so, then I switch to solo for a bit, he stayed in my private group and what happens, he gets the alien encounter while I'm in solo.

After about 3 minutes in Solo, I switch back to my private group and wouldn't you know it...I trigger the event. so that makes two in a row.....

Maybe there is something to this private group with minimal cmdrs.


Anyways, fly safe guys and good luck to those still waiting.
 

Belthize

Belthize
Thatchinho said:
Lots of thoughts, but the key thing really is whether anything we do changes the patterns on the obelisks. If it does then there's an open avenue for exploration, if it doesn't then the avenue's a no go.

Personally I suspect that looking at things in terms of binary isn't going to be the way to go, and that what we're seeing is more akin to how our writing is shown on a dot matrix display. Just my suspicion at this stage though, and could be wrong! :)
Click to expand...

Agreed. I didn't really realize other folks were delving into this aspect of a 2nd hidden communication by the sites themselves, happy to get involved.

For me there were a couple of key points in the data packages that should be considered:


  • Guardians had 4 digits on 2 hands with extra hinge points in their arms "facilitating complex articulation and the use of sophisticated sign language" B5, we have 3 hinge points (wrist, elbow shoulder, so presumably they have 4.
  • There is "a connection between some of the glyphs on the obelisks and the forms in the data" we gather.. Ram TahI believes "the delta patterns could be the building blocks of a lexicon" L3
  • "The written form of the Guardians’ language is based around glyphs, with each glyph representing a single word." L13
  • "the glyph for ‘moon’ incorporates the waxing and waning as it would have appeared from the Guardians’ homeworld" L13, implies he's decode one glyph
  • "These glyphs actually evolved from a form of sign language that the guardians developed when hunting. " L14
  • "The written glyphs share the shape and motion of the original sign language, they also evolved in response to new media, such as electronic representation." L18
  • "The glyphs on the obelisks and other structures provided the primary mechanism for recognising the patterns, and also gave me clues as to what the other data patterns might contain." L18

A single glyph of 36 lights gives more 'words' (68 Billion) than all human languages combined (20 to 30 million). There's no need to encode in some base, the glyphs themselves are the words.

Their language evolved as a form of sign language for silent hunting then semaphore, the glyphs have a left right symmetry so possibly the left half is the left arm, right half is the right arm. Then possibly the lights designate joint positions and finger positions.

Frankly just a little bit of thinking along those lines makes my head hurt. There's the added complication that complex ideas can be further encoded as state transitions from one glyph to the next, e.g. rainbow in standard English sign language. Seems we need a complete set of glyphs cross correlated with all relevant data (ie data packages associated with them, architectural layout etc) to find some first meaning that could then be used to crack the whole mess. I'm not optimistic but I am interested.
 
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publicstaticvoid

publicstaticvoid
The beauty is that these are replicated by a computer. The display alone is capable of displaying 2^36 different words. That's irrelevant to what the relics actually says. To a computer the glyphs are still 1s and 0s. When comparing objects like orbs and caskets it must make a binary representation of these objects to compare them. If you figure out their binary representation and assign them to a code book we can begin to decipher the relic.
 
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publicstaticvoid

publicstaticvoid
The trick to tackling a complex problem like decoding the language is to take baby steps. Tbh I haven't even considered the interactions between glyphs because I haven't got to a state yet that requires me to consider it. I need to isolate the fundamentals first in order to make the complexity of the interactions less painful. It's like building a house, get the foundation down, figure out the walls, and then build the roof.
 
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