Well it is quiet tonight - and there's not much on the telly..
Do you feel the same about the people who play when you are at work or asleep or on holiday, who can also influence your game from a point of untouchability?
Read First Why I will play 'all' and why I think you should too
- Thread starter Cmdr Eagleboy
- Start date
Well it is quiet tonight - and there's not much on the telly..
Do you feel the same about the people who play when you are at work or asleep or on holiday, who can also influence your game from a point of untouchability?
For people not getting what I mean by advantage, remember we are playing a feature-limited beta. Can a human player interdict you right now? No? Ok, let's turn this around: do you think NPCs will be able to anticipate you? For example, you dodge an interdiction, supercruise away and - hello, the NPC anticipated your likely course of action and his buddies are waiting right in front of the only station in the system, missiles ready, just outside the no fire zone. Oh, and it is a lawless system, so no police either.
Do you think the above scenario likely for NPCs? Or is that something you can expect a human player to pull off?
So let's say you're a trader. Do you really think you can compare NPCs with human players when it comes to tenacity and ingenuity they can bring to bear? Yeah, you can make NPCs never miss or fly perfect maneuvers, which will never happen because it would make the game unplayable. But I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the out of combat game. Players are much, much harder to evade than NPCs. Not having to deal with any of that gives you an advantage over any player who chooses to stick to it. Not a problem in separate modes, kinda a problem when you can shift between them at will.
Name one reason a trader intent on making a profit won't choose private/solo online mode?
Do you think the above scenario likely for NPCs? Or is that something you can expect a human player to pull off?
So let's say you're a trader. Do you really think you can compare NPCs with human players when it comes to tenacity and ingenuity they can bring to bear? Yeah, you can make NPCs never miss or fly perfect maneuvers, which will never happen because it would make the game unplayable. But I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the out of combat game. Players are much, much harder to evade than NPCs. Not having to deal with any of that gives you an advantage over any player who chooses to stick to it. Not a problem in separate modes, kinda a problem when you can shift between them at will.
Name one reason a trader intent on making a profit won't choose private/solo online mode?
Well it is quiet tonight - and there's not much on the telly..
Do you feel the same about the people who play when you are at work or asleep or on holiday, who can also influence your game from a point of untouchability?
Nope - they are not untouchable. Other players are in there, aren't they? They have to deal with them just like the rest of us.
Ahh but ian, that's what's known as "Emergent" game play! If you have your mates able to back you up and give you more of an advantage in the game than the npc's can, well it's "Emergent sandboxing" not cheating.
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![[VR] Mad Mike](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/27/27910.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
what is easier
me solo with the option of paying for a few ai wingmen out of my own pocket on this trading run
or Me, you, cosmos, ianW, jeff ryan and liqua teamed up in ALL with our ships loaded up with goods and doing it as a group? *
Does that answer your question?
both modes can be looked at as being advantageous in different ways.
*random names picked out of an invisible hat.
**hell I can go 1 better than that.... 32 of us could team up and that way we would never see another human other than ourselves in our instance. how easy would that be?!.
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NPC traders won't have a choice.
As for players - not everyone trading might be a trader. I might be trading to make up a loss from some other situation - or to get enough money to get a bigger ship.
And if like you I like the challenge of other players then I need to be in the all group.
Isn't that good enough for you? You might be better than me because by the sound of it you have much more gaming experience than me.
PvE is *always* easier. Come on. Where our group would have to organize, get on TS or even just agree on a time when everyone can get online, agree on the run, organize who is going to fly what AND then deal with Jack and his band who might just have ships armed to the teeth since, you know, they want to blow us up; you going solo just have to hire some wingmen. If that.
Interesting point. I bet it will be abused a lot unless the devs mix it up a little. How about we organize a group of 31 ships and sit at a station waiting for players to drop in one by one...
There might be a misunderstanding. The only reason why I'm even discussing this is because right now people in solo/private groups are set to influence the overall online simulation. It's not a question of experience - I actually suck at fighting, can't kill a damn thing. Will I get better? Who cares! I'm a trader/explorer. I just wish for consistent online world where players who get to influence it have to do it with the rest of us in the soup. Nothing more.
Of course they can, but they won't, because that would be bad AI design. The goal of good AI design is making it simulate interesting human behavior.
I watched a video today of a player vs AI at the federal distress beacon and was surprised by the actions of a federal AI fighter that actively used the wrecked battle cruiser for cover, even flew into the gap in the hull, coming out shooting again at the other side. If this is indicative of what FD is capable of then single player will surely be very interesting.
So I agree that indeed in that respect single player will not be much safer than multi player. But I also do not expect FD to fill the universe with sociopathic AI. I believe neither do you
.But when the universe opens up I believe the chances of meeting sociopathic players will not be that big either.
The difference will be that I think the AI will not be programmed to grief.
I do not believe we will ever see an AI anaconda waiting near Aulin station to shoot down defenseless Haulers for example. Neither will we see AI on your team purposely opening fire on you to destroy you. Also the AI will not disconnect cowardly when it is losing a battle. I know the latter will be addressed, but I use it as an example of typical human behavior that I feel is immersion breaking and thus impacts my game negatively.
I would not avoid multi player because I think it is more dangerous (not for me anyway as I am confident of my skill), but because I think human players tend to behave more immersion breaking and dishonorable. It is that what I hate most.
And as I already mentioned I also feel very uncomfortable about humans influencing my Elite universe, exploring and discovering what I want to explore and discover.
Interesting point. I bet it will be abused a lot unless the devs mix it up a little. How about we organize a group of 31 ships and sit at a station waiting for players to drop in one by one...
Any more than a single ship approaching in formation in your scenario and you won't see any of them, but they will be there and able to go about their business.
Plenty of stars in the sky my man, plenty of stars in the sky. You might start feeling alone after the first few thousand.
You're right. Let's lower that to 26. I think 26:6 is comfortably gankable, yes? And if they put together a bigger group to take us on - nyah nyah nyah, can't touch us!
Plenty of stars in the sky my man, plenty of stars in the sky. You might start feeling alone after the first few thousand.
Yes, that is indeed something to consider. But I am not the type that will be interacting with others that much anyway. I am a loner at heart.
I get that - I just don't see how you can account for all the other imbalances.
It's not a fair contest - it never will/can be with all the differing abilities, equipment, broadband, time to play etc. etc.
But I'm happy to agree to disagree.
Hardpoints retracting..
Competitive people will see competition in everything. To them it's all about winners and losers.
As to the OP I think he made his point well. I too will be in the All group as I think I'll enjoy the mix of NPC and occasional Player encounters; some friendly, some scary.
And if given the choice, my transponder will be off and everybody I meet or just pass by will be another character in my Elite universe. Some I'll interact with to varying degrees, maybe becoming friends, enemies or just 'contacts'; others will just be fleeting encounters whose details are soon forgotten, but in the aggregate will make up the rich background that sets the story's scene.
I hope that the majority of Players choose online, so as to increase the dynamic nature of the universe, but whether they choose to play permanently in All, Private Group or Solo or instead choose to switch back and forth between any combination will not concern me one jot. I see no competition between us, just (hopefully) lots of Players enjoying the game and keeping it alive for years to come.
Remember, there is no fixed quantity of enjoyment available in the game. Others having some doesn't mean less for you.
As to the OP I think he made his point well. I too will be in the All group as I think I'll enjoy the mix of NPC and occasional Player encounters; some friendly, some scary.
And if given the choice, my transponder will be off and everybody I meet or just pass by will be another character in my Elite universe. Some I'll interact with to varying degrees, maybe becoming friends, enemies or just 'contacts'; others will just be fleeting encounters whose details are soon forgotten, but in the aggregate will make up the rich background that sets the story's scene.
I hope that the majority of Players choose online, so as to increase the dynamic nature of the universe, but whether they choose to play permanently in All, Private Group or Solo or instead choose to switch back and forth between any combination will not concern me one jot. I see no competition between us, just (hopefully) lots of Players enjoying the game and keeping it alive for years to come.
Remember, there is no fixed quantity of enjoyment available in the game. Others having some doesn't mean less for you.
Naturally. It's not about winning or losing for me either - I will probably be on the fringe anyway, a long way from busy systems.
But the one thing I took away from Eve that I remember as good, is that feeling of sharing the same universe with every other player. Now, as a mostly solo player I probably met about 5% of them in my years of gameplay. But that doesn't matter because they were all there. What happened to them could happen to me. What I did mattered to them in some indirect way. And vice versa.
Kinda like the stars in this 1:1 galaxy. You will NEVER be able to see them all. Not even with sci-fi hyperspace ships. But they're there. And you CAN see any one of them you choose. Just like you might chance upon any one of the players playing in the same universe as you. And that's awesome.
That's what I'm talking about.
You're right. Let's lower that to 26. I think 26:6 is comfortably gankable, yes? And if they put together a bigger group to take us on - nyah nyah nyah, can't touch us!
Hehe again any group larger than 6 and your 26 won't see them, but I wouldn't mind having a crack at 26 with 6, as it'll be a lot easier to maintain covering formations with 3 pairs rather than 13
Thread title aside I very much intend to play in the ALL group. Mainly because I want that interaction with other pilots for good or ill. I don't intend on being wholey good or bad somewhere in between and ill judge that on the situation when they arise. What annoys me a little is that when I'm "bad" ill likely get ignored moments later and ill never see that player again on the day when I'm good and I'm helping him.