General / Off-Topic UK Calls General Election for 8th June 2017

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Quite frankly i'd like to see ALL faith schools banned....but no one here is surprised that i hold that view,

About Ireland, i grew up rather ignorant, thinking the Unionists and British soldiers were the good guys and the IRA were the bad guys, not that i was taught this by my parents, we never even touched upon the subject , but perhaps i assumed these views because i'm from a patriotic military family, but as i became more knowledgeable over the years i see things clearer, obviously the IRA were bad, they were terrorist scum, but so were the Unionist paramilitary groups, and as much as i like to think British troops as a peacekeeping force for good, we all know that attrocities were committed. My view as i have stated previously, is that we keep the troubles from returning, we keep the status quo.....until the young decide the future.
 

verminstar

Banned
Again the use of insults due to the weakness of argument. You admit you do not read my posts and have failed to post any evidence to dispute my argument or further your own. Its just meaningless ramblings that fail to address the point and evidence I`ve produced.

....and no we don`t throw bricks at each other or give a fiddlers about creed or colour in my country, we have a gay man of Indian descent as our Taoiseach. Who gives a monkeys. Your just ranting on about sectarianism as you`re clueless and you have nothing else to offer.

Your posts are choc full of insults so by your logic...

Pot kettle and black springs to mind...hypocrasy at its finest. You insult everyone else and its justified but when others do it to you its...something else? So ye can dish it out, and oh boy do you dish it out, but ye cant take it even when its minor in comparison to what you dish out.

Theres a word fer peeple like that...

Apologies too fer the delays in my comments...it appears Im on probation and everything I type has to be checked by mods before it appears...makes the debate look disjointed. Beyond my control ^
 
Quite frankly i'd like to see ALL faith schools banned....but no one here is surprised that i hold that view,

About Ireland, i grew up rather ignorant, thinking the Unionists and British soldiers were the good guys and the IRA were the bad guys, not that i was taught this by my parents, we never even touched upon the subject , but perhaps i assumed these views because i'm from a patriotic military family, but as i became more knowledgeable over the years i see things clearer, obviously the IRA were bad, they were terrorist scum, but so were the Unionist paramilitary groups, and as much as i like to think British troops as a peacekeeping force for good, we all know that attrocities were committed. My view as i have stated previously, is that we keep the troubles from returning, we keep the status quo.....until the young decide the future.

All religion is based upon fear of the unknown. So, what you do not know, you imagine something to take its place and suddenly it isn't scary anymore.

But this imaginary phenomena also causes problems because it is turning people into ignorant idiots and letting them make wrong decisions in the name of their imaginary friends.
 
Your posts are choc full of insults so by your logic...

Pot kettle and black springs to mind...hypocrasy at its finest. You insult everyone else and its justified but when others do it to you its...something else? So ye can dish it out, and oh boy do you dish it out, but ye cant take it even when its minor in comparison to what you dish out.

Theres a word fer peeple like that...

Apologies too fer the delays in my comments...it appears Im on probation and everything I type has to be checked by mods before it appears...makes the debate look disjointed. Beyond my control ^

Maybe you can post some examples to prove your case.
 
Again the use of insults due to the weakness of argument. You admit you do not read my posts and have failed to post any evidence to dispute my argument or further your own. Its just meaningless ramblings that fail to address the point and evidence I`ve produced.

....and no we don`t throw bricks at each other or give a fiddlers about creed or colour in my country, we have a gay man of Indian descent as our Taoiseach. Who gives a monkeys. Your just ranting on about sectarianism as you`re clueless and you have nothing else to offer.

So is that what the IRL in your name means? Ireland?
 
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Quite frankly i'd like to see ALL faith schools banned....but no one here is surprised that i hold that view,

About Ireland, i grew up rather ignorant, thinking the Unionists and British soldiers were the good guys and the IRA were the bad guys, not that i was taught this by my parents, we never even touched upon the subject , but perhaps i assumed these views because i'm from a patriotic military family, but as i became more knowledgeable over the years i see things clearer, obviously the IRA were bad, they were terrorist scum, but so were the Unionist paramilitary groups, and as much as i like to think British troops as a peacekeeping force for good, we all know that attrocities were committed. My view as i have stated previously, is that we keep the troubles from returning, we keep the status quo.....until the young decide the future.

Yep peace is important, stuff everything else.

Here's a great example of truth stretching which stemmed from media bias (I'm not disagreeing with anything you said just an interesting point).

Catholic=terrorist
Protestant=paramilitary

Paramilitary just doesn't have quite the same ring to it as terrorist, although we all know they are all as bad as each other the press have been using a special slighty less negative word for a certain type of terrorist for so long it's become part of the terminology.
 

verminstar

Banned
That said, it sounds like most of the posters agree that killing people is not a good idea, and that a united Irelend should only happen as and when the majority of NI citizens agree to it.

See this I can agree with absolutely...if a majority wanted and voted fer a united ireland, I would without any hesitation accept that as being the will of the people. No argument from me whatsoever...Id probably leave the country as a result fer fear of my life but one cannot argue with a democratic decision like that...those who do obviously only support democracy when the result goes their way and ignores it when it doesnt...the very definition of a hyporite imo. Sounds familiar?

Ive never seen the argument made in such a way with catholics in the armed forces...back in the mid 80s, half our platoon was catholic including several lads from here. That was the old Royal Irish Rangers who recruited lads from the north and south, and english and scottish...only about a third of the platoon were from the north yet we were all under no illusions that we were all legitimate targets regardless simply because we wore the uniform.

Even 5 years after they kicked me out, I had to carry personal protection because of threats to my life. Te police supplied maps which were divided into coloured areas of places which were safe and dangerous...a practice which started after two soldiers wandered into a republican funeral while an eye in the sky could only watch as the crowd literally tore them to pieces.

Things like that leave a lastimg impression on yound soldiers...makes them more afraid of an enemy they cant see and bound by law not to retaliate against. Once out of the army however...
 

verminstar

Banned
Maybe you can post some examples to prove your case.

Use forum search if ye cant remember what ye wrote...I got better things to do than sit here trying to prove what others here have already commented on. If ye dont see the problem in yer own tone then quite frankly, yer nowhere near as intelligent as ye sound.

Thats not an insult btw...thats simply stating what I see when you write. Its something that has come up time and time again with more posters than just me, and yet ye still want me to validate the argument? I could if I tried but why should I try at all? Im not making a case, just making an observation which others here will be nodding in agreement to, so really there is nothing to prove ^
 
It's just a shame things are unsettled in the north at the moment. I'm from the south but have served 17 years in the UK armed forces now. So I can see both sides. I've never completely understood the dynamics in the north but I do know one thing, devil makes work for idle hands. Give vast majority of people a job some money in their pockets and some hope for a better life for the kids and they'll drop the sectarianism in a heart beat. It was working very well after the good Friday agreement with industry picking up in the north. It's sad to think that the whole uncertainty with Brexit and the instability of the power sharing government and now the DUP cosied up with May and Co might undo a lot of the good work there.
 
Even 5 years after they kicked me out, I had to carry personal protection because of threats to my life. Te police supplied maps which were divided into coloured areas of places which were safe and dangerous...a practice which started after two soldiers wandered into a republican funeral while an eye in the sky could only watch as the crowd literally tore them to pieces.

... and that frenzied attack took place less than a week after loyalist Michael Stone had attacked a republican funeral in the same Milltown Cemetery with a automatic pistol and grenades killing 3 and injuring 60 odd of the mourners. The bravery of the unarmed lads that tackled him saved a lot of lives that day, while the RUC looked on. He later said he was in collusion with British security forces in carrying out the attack, who aided and abetted same.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/stone-claims-he-received-help-for-milltown-attack-1.1110882

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5W329IOu1ik

Less then a week later when republicans were burying some of those killed by Michael Stone in the very same Milltown cemetery, unidentified armed men entered the funeral cortege and of course the mourners thought it was another attack. What happen next was inevitable as the crowd moved into deal with what they believed was another attack. Whoever that halfwit was that sent those men into that situation was obviously a moron of the highest order, in light of what had happen in the same circumstances just days earlier.
 
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verminstar

Banned
It's just a shame things are unsettled in the north at the moment. I'm from the south but have served 17 years in the UK armed forces now. So I can see both sides. I've never completely understood the dynamics in the north but I do know one thing, devil makes work for idle hands. Give vast majority of people a job some money in their pockets and some hope for a better life for the kids and they'll drop the sectarianism in a heart beat. It was working very well after the good Friday agreement with industry picking up in the north. It's sad to think that the whole uncertainty with Brexit and the instability of the power sharing government and now the DUP cosied up with May and Co might undo a lot of the good work there.

Brexit is a factor but not a contributing one...the recent hardening happened because republicans were threatening us with 'special status' and border polls after surging ahead in the election before last, while unionism was divided and fighting amongst ourselves. Those threats were real enough to scare unionists into doing the unthinkable and it unified us for the first time in half a century.

That made hardliners where previously there were moderates...those threats were the cause of the DUP gaining so much influence. In our eyes, this is entirely the fault of republicans who just couldnt help but gloat when they thought they had the upper hand. With unionism so strong right now, they lost any hope of a border poll anytime within 20 years, possibly longer if the DUP can temper their religious fervour.

So even while I cant stand the DUP, Ill continue to support them because they the only thing between us and them. How england deals with it isnt really my problem...Im protecting my home at any cost and that cost is supporting hardliners. The moderates would have handed us to the south on a silver platter...thats why they lost every single seat they had and turned politics here into a two horse race. The moderates, once quite strong and gaining ground every year were all but utterly decimated in the last election. Every single seat bar one is now shared between sinn fein and DUP witha single independant holding a single seat...also a unionist I might add and quite hardline in her own right already I might add which effectively make 11 unionist seats and 7 republican...hardly a majority by any stretch of the imagination.

Just offering a different perspective. I know outsiders wont like the DUP but without them we are in serious trouble. Give us an alternative by all means...Im literally begging fer an alternative because the reality is already one of sheer desperation. If its a united ireland then we are lost and this will continue into another generation and thats the real tragedy here.

Outsiders and brexit and trump and isis...none of that were contributing factors. It may have influenced how other parties created their mandates, but the bottom line is that our hatred...or fear just to keep everyone happy, of a united ireland outweighs everything else. Personally, I couldnt care less about the EU or whether or not we join it or exit it...so long as I retain my right to stay british and live in the UK on british soil. And that means staying right where I am and defending against anything that threatens that by any and all means. The end justifies the means...theres a lotta truth in those words...unfortunately the means are not pretty but...thats how the cards fell when we threw the deck into the air.

The UK made patriots here, and highly decorated soldiers, and soldiers who did things nobody can know about, and some of their worst enemies who will never forgive them. All those things the british created here on this small and bloody patch of real estate. People like us are what ye might think of as a hangover from that less than ideal time in our history. We are merely a by product who will give up our lives to protect the Crown...even if they flat out reject it.

Ye see the problem now? When ye add in the little things, the bigger picture makes more sense. So even while I admit the other side got it worse than my side...well...its my side and wars are never fair or balanced. Ours is just dirtier than most and has lasted fer over 500 years ^
 
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verminstar

Banned
... and that frenzied attack took place less than a week after loyalist Michael Stone had attacked a republican funeral in the same Milltown Cemetery with a automatic pistol and grenades killing 3 and injuring 60 odd of the mourners. The bravery of the unarmed lads that tackled him saved a lot of lives that day, while the RUC looked on. He later said he was in collusion with British security forces in carrying out the attack, who aided and abetted same.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/stone-claims-he-received-help-for-milltown-attack-1.1110882

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5W329IOu1ik

Less then a week later when republicans were burying some of those killed by Michael Stone in the very same Milltown cemetery, unidentified armed men entered the funeral cortege and of course the mourners thought it was another attack. What happen next was inevitable as the crowd moved into deal with what they believed was another attack. Whoever that halfwit was that sent those men into that situation was obviously a moron of the highest order, in light of what had happen in the same circumstances just days earlier.

Nobody sent them anywhere...they were off duty and merely got lost. As fer Stone...Ill ask him next time I see him considering hes the commander on the wing where I have about a dozen mates serving their time. He has claimed many things with only about half of it being true and as fer the RUC not intervening...what ye think would have happened if the police had waded into a republican funeral? It would have caused a huge riot which would have escalted very quickly indeed and you know it. He was arrested shortly after so if he was colluding, they had a weird relationship to say the least.

That still doesnt justify what happened to those two soldiers who had merely gotten lost. They were desperately trying to escape and members of sinn fein were attempting to control the crowd to allow them to escape as they knew what happened and knew the crowd was in a frenzy of hatred. Do ye wanna link the video to that? I doubt the mods would allow it because it is deeply disturbing to watch...how convenient fer you, ye can claim it didnt happen without proof now.

Stone was a glue sniffing nobody before that...he did it to become somebody and it worked, albeit hes only somebody while behind bars. Outside, he was a bit of a standing joke within his own community which is why he apparently attacked stormont with a fake grenade and a rubber handgun...he wanted to be arrested, he wanted to go back to prison because he was a big man inside and nothing on the outside. And thats the truth.
 
Boundary changes will see Sinn Féin become the largest party, the demographics are against unionism and insurmountable.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...ggest-party-in-northern-ireland-35831665.html

Unionism is at full tilt on a downward curve to try and keep up with Irish nationalism, which is only starting to get into its stride. Unionist unity can`t stop the inevitable, it just galvanises nationalism. Even the Irish government has had to get the finger out and try and get the country ready for a United Ireland.
 

verminstar

Banned
Boundary changes will see Sinn Féin become the largest party, the demographics are against unionism and insurmountable.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...ggest-party-in-northern-ireland-35831665.html

Unionism is at full tilt on a downward curve to try and keep up with Irish nationalism, which is only starting to get into its stride. Unionist unity can`t stop the inevitable, it just galvanises nationalism. Even the Irish government has had to get the finger out and try and get the country ready for a United Ireland.

We arent trying to stop the inevitable...trying to stop a united ireland is akin to the story of the fool on the beach telling the tide not to come in.

We are merely buying time and you would know this from my previous answers on the subject. I said I actively hoped it would happen in my daughters lifetime...but not mine. I know its coming...in the end it will be violent and Im already not in the condition I was as a young man when I was more indestructable. As a man grows older, that fear of losing my home leads one to consider all the options...even the unthinkable ones.

I agree that as a whole, unionism is dying out, but we aint gonna just roll over and die yet...ye know better than that. Ye know we will never surrender...never surrender being one of our old trademarks after all. You more than anyone here knows how this will end and how this will play out. You keep telling yerself we arent ready...if it helps ye sleep at night then believe whatever ye want to believe...I wont argue a different scenario as I am not the fool ye think I am ^
 
Boundary changes will see Sinn Féin become the largest party, the demographics are against unionism and insurmountable.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...ggest-party-in-northern-ireland-35831665.html

Unionism is at full tilt on a downward curve to try and keep up with Irish nationalism, which is only starting to get into its stride. Unionist unity can`t stop the inevitable, it just galvanises nationalism. Even the Irish government has had to get the finger out and try and get the country ready for a United Ireland.
Perhaps you are right, but i hope by the time this happens, the hatred will be less powerful, it won't be for decades yet. And we can only hope that there is no return to the troubles, the last thing we need or want is three party violence (Unionist, UK armed forces and republicans) because everyone will suffer, and once innocents on all sides start to die, there is no moral high ground, allthough no doubt all sides will claim said high ground.

Back to the rest of the UK, it would be a sad day if labour used Sinn Fein to get into power, but on the other hand, we are right now living a nightmare in which the tories are alligned with the political wing of the old testament.

Northern Irish politics has never affected me until now so other than the DUP and SF i know very little. Can someone explain to me why the SDLP and UUP performed so poorly ? (and what they stood for ideologicaly) so that i can understand why the most evil PM since Thatcher is still in office. I could use wiki but i thought, why not ask the peope who live in NI.
 
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We arent trying to stop the inevitable...trying to stop a united ireland is akin to the story of the fool on the beach telling the tide not to come in.

We are merely buying time and you would know this from my previous answers on the subject. I said I actively hoped it would happen in my daughters lifetime...but not mine. I know its coming...in the end it will be violent and Im already not in the condition I was as a young man when I was more indestructable. As a man grows older, that fear of losing my home leads one to consider all the options...even the unthinkable ones.

I agree that as a whole, unionism is dying out, but we aint gonna just roll over and die yet...ye know better than that. Ye know we will never surrender...never surrender being one of our old trademarks after all. You more than anyone here knows how this will end and how this will play out. You keep telling yerself we arent ready...if it helps ye sleep at night then believe whatever ye want to believe...I wont argue a different scenario as I am not the fool ye think I am ^

I have to laugh when I hear this "No Surrender" rubbish. Surrender to what, the democratic vote to live in a modern pluralist republic where every citizen has the same rights and opportunities as you and yours. Unionism has been trapped in its mental cul de sac for so long, it can`t see the wood for the trees. As far as a loyalist backlash, forgive me if I don`t give a fiddlers nor am I worried about it, anyone that tries it on will be dealt with fairly rapid.
 

verminstar

Banned
Perhaps you are right, but i hope by the time this happens, the hatred will be less powerful, it won't be for decades yet. And we can only hope that there is no return to the troubles, the last thing we need or want is three party violence (Unionist, UK armed forces and republicans) because everyone will suffer, and once innocents on all sides start to die, there is no moral high ground, allthough no doubt all sides will claim said high ground.

Back to the rest of the UK, it would be a sad day if labour used Sinn Fein to get into power, but on the other hand, we are right now living a nightmare in which the tories are alligned with the political wing of the old testament.

Northern Irish politics has never affected me until now so other than the DUP and SF i know very little. Can someone explain to me why the SDLP and UUP performed so poorly ? (and what they stood for ideologicaly) so that i can understand why the most evil PM since Thatcher is still in office. I could use wiki but i thought, why not ask the peope who live in NI.

SDLP wanted to stay within the EU and a united Ireland.

UUP said they wanted to stay in the union, but wanted to stay in the EU more and decalred that should they lose, they would transfer all their votes to the SDLP who wanted said united ireland. UUP lost almost their entire support base overnight and pro EU supporters were forced to vote fer a hardline leave party to negate the effects their party were threatening to do. SDLP lost their republican support base because they were cooperating with unionists. Remember what I said about them not really wanting to share anything with us? Their way or the highway? SDLP found that out the hard way and lost their entire support base overnight because they want a united EU more than a united ireland.

Unionists fear a united ireland more than a united EU and voted according to who best to deliver that. Ye see where things went wrong now? Brexit and all this EU nonsense ceryainly had an influence, but good old tribal politics won the day in the end ^
 
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verminstar

Banned
I have to laugh when I hear this "No Surrender" rubbish. Surrender to what, the democratic vote to live in a modern pluralist republic where every citizen has the same rights and opportunities as you and yours. Unionism has been trapped in its mental cul de sac for so long, it can`t see the wood for the trees. As far as a loyalist backlash, forgive me if I don`t give a fiddlers nor am I worried about it, anyone that tries it on will be dealt with fairly rapid.

Where does this vote come from? Republicans have been a minority since ulster was first created, so where is this fabled vote? Has it happened while I was sitiing here writing this? You guys dont have and never had anything close to enough of a majority to swing it which is why ye threw a 3 decade tantrum with the provos, and now more recently with the dissidents.

In every single democratic vote on a united ireland, republicans have lost...so please tell me...what democratic vote yer referencing?

Dealt with fairly rapidly? Hahahaha...I thought ye were a bit more clued in than this...now yer just being rude but funny at the same time ^
 
Perhaps you are right, but i hope by the time this happens, the hatred will be less powerful, it won't be for decades yet. And we can only hope that there is no return to the troubles, the last thing we need or want is three party violence (Unionist, UK armed forces and republicans) because everyone will suffer, and once innocents on all sides start to die, there is no moral high ground, allthough no doubt all sides will claim said high ground.

Back to the rest of the UK, it would be a sad day if labour used Sinn Fein to get into power, but on the other hand, we are right now living a nightmare in which the tories are alligned with the political wing of the old testament.

Northern Irish politics has never affected me until now so other than the DUP and SF i know very little. Can someone explain to me why the SDLP and UUP performed so poorly ? (and what they stood for ideologicaly) so that i can understand why the most evil PM since Thatcher is still in office. I could use wiki but i thought, why not ask the peope who live in NI.

Sinn Feinn will not take their seats, this has been the policy since 1919, not to mention an oath to a foreign queen/head of state, even Corbyn and McDonnell know this and understand Irish history in comparison to your usual Tory who`s clueless and still thinks there`s an empire. The SDLP are obviously not seen as a competent or tough enough representation for Irish nationalists in the North.
 
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verminstar

Banned
Sinn Feinn will not take their seats, this has been the policy since 1919, not to mention an oath to a foreign queen/head of state, even Corbyn and McDonnell know this and understand Irish history in comparison to your usual Tory who`s clueless and still thinks there`s an empire. The SDLP are obviously not seen as a competent or tough enough representation for Irish nationals in the North.

Refusing not to take their seats even after campaigning hard for them...considering what happened, sinn fein have now guaranteed that nationalists only voice in westminister is the DUP.

Well done you guys...dont just point a 38 at yer foot and pull the trigger, point an RPG at it and pull the trigger...do the job right ^
 
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