Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
.... which is not particularly surprising, in my opinion, given the game mode choices offered by the game and the single shared galaxy state.
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.... which is not particularly surprising, in my opinion, given the game mode choices offered by the game and the single shared galaxy state.
It also satisfies Occam's Razor which has nothing to do with the OP but I thought I'd mention it.
I can see several factors making PvP unpopular
What made it fun before was that changing builds was quick (no need to remod everything) and
that organised events in powerplay, eravate protection and such are a lot of fun. (but no ingame
mechanics to create such events)
*That was not always the case. Actual PvP piracy was rather prévalent on rare good routes in
the begining. Now that no one trades rares, and that everyone is busy ganking, pirates actually
asking for cargo are mostly a thing of the past. I saw one 6mth ago in Tanmark.
- High costs for the losing party.
- Large grind barrier with the engineers to be competitive. Now it's more like a 9km grind cliff with the god rolls exploits.
- Mostly asymmetrical (unbalanced) engagements (i.e. 4v1's)
- No in game justification/support of PvP
- Mostly turned into a gank fest at CG's and hot POI's*
- First to lose shields is dead meat. (armor is pointless)
- Enormous shields from engineers makes for 20-30 slugfests.
What made it fun before was that changing builds was quick (no need to remod everything) and
that organised events in powerplay, eravate protection and such are a lot of fun. (but no ingame
mechanics to create such events)
*That was not always the case. Actual PvP piracy was rather prévalent on rare good routes in
the begining. Now that no one trades rares, and that everyone is busy ganking, pirates actually
asking for cargo are mostly a thing of the past. I saw one 6mth ago in Tanmark.
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Indeed. Plus the Braben quote: PvP will be rare and meaningful.
Of which 50% has come true.
PvP has no rewards or sense in game besides for people who like dueling. Also the game is riddled with exploits like the engineer one,combat logging etc...
You risk alot or rebuy in pvp and gain almost nothing for winning.
Now if player groups or individual players actually controlled stations,and the economy wasnt just a fake screen on top,and delivering 5000t of goods meant life and death for a station,then we could have real pvp battles,blockades,blockade runners etc... Unfortunatley nothing even remotley like this will ever come.
You risk alot or rebuy in pvp and gain almost nothing for winning.
Now if player groups or individual players actually controlled stations,and the economy wasnt just a fake screen on top,and delivering 5000t of goods meant life and death for a station,then we could have real pvp battles,blockades,blockade runners etc... Unfortunatley nothing even remotley like this will ever come.
Would mean getting rid of solo and private group as well wouldn't it? Fortunately for those who knew what they were buying none of this will indeed ever come true.
I fear they might:-
1) Allow illegal destruction in anarchy systems... When clearly this would be counter productive.
2) Try and make system NPC security and increasing bounties a meaningful element of penalties, instead of using more subtle and effective means (eg: deny station docking or indeed entire system permits).
As you said bounties/fines won't mean much. Losing access to more and more of the bubble, and potentially appearing as a "psycho" on people radars along with a permanent bounty, might!
Just not interested in building and flying identikit meta builds, or in flying a ship that's an extreme combat build since usually when I play I just take off and decide what I'm going to do on the fly. That means I'm usually flying all-rounder ships which make most pvp encounters a waste of time. Flying my pure combat FDL all the time would compromise me in doing anything else I want to do in the game.
Chuck in the fact that I usually play alone (by choice) and a lot of pvp encounters will be against winged up opponents and you're looking at something that just isn't going to offer me entertainment. I'm not one of these players who has some sort of principle-based objection to pvp, in fact some of the attitudes I see towards players who do participate in it on here vary between bizarre and downright insulting but as it is at the moment, it's just not going to enhance my own experience of playing the game in any way.
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Gen-Han-Solo
Banned
Most players like some PvP sadlly though in ELITE it has not been balanced or evened out. i.e you get a bounty for killing a clean NPC ship and the local police or naval forces start hunting for you.
On the other hand four Cmdrs in corvets or cutters seam to like the idea of saying they won a PvP fight when fighting one player in a clean type6 or type7 because they know he has no way of fighting back.
A lot sadly think it is normal to win PvP fights when shooting at ships on the ground when they can see the Cmdr is in his srv they think it is so fair they even count it as two PvP wins because they destroy an unmanned ship and then the srv.
Sadly all they get is a small bounty, and the reward they get is having a good time destroying some ones hard work and game.
Bring in the carma system or some form of bounty system were they can not just simply buy a sidewinder and get them self's blown up so they never get chased my the security or police force or other bounty hunting Cmdrs.
No one in elite does any form of piracy because pirates don't blow up or sink the ships they try to rob they normally let them survive to they can try and rob them again.
On the other hand four Cmdrs in corvets or cutters seam to like the idea of saying they won a PvP fight when fighting one player in a clean type6 or type7 because they know he has no way of fighting back.
A lot sadly think it is normal to win PvP fights when shooting at ships on the ground when they can see the Cmdr is in his srv they think it is so fair they even count it as two PvP wins because they destroy an unmanned ship and then the srv.
Sadly all they get is a small bounty, and the reward they get is having a good time destroying some ones hard work and game.
Bring in the carma system or some form of bounty system were they can not just simply buy a sidewinder and get them self's blown up so they never get chased my the security or police force or other bounty hunting Cmdrs.
No one in elite does any form of piracy because pirates don't blow up or sink the ships they try to rob they normally let them survive to they can try and rob them again.
- High costs for the losing party Yes but it depends on your ship/build, you don't need a super-expensive ship to PvP well (a lot of very good PvP'ers use Vipers, Vultures and DBS)
- Large grind barrier with the engineers to be competitive Agree
- Mostly asymmetrical (unbalanced) engagements (i.e. 4v1's) This is not really a problem but a reality, avoiding hostile wings is a part of the game. Players need to learn evasion & escape as well as how to fight
- No in game justification/support of PvP Agree, they made PvP irrelevant by making every goal/activity in the game equal to all modes (powerplay & community goals should reward playing open rather than solo or PG IMO)
- Mostly turned into a gank fest at CG's and hot POI's* This is because piracy/trade/bounty hunting systems are weak and do not encourage emergent PvP/multiplayer scenarios. A lot of pirates got fed up and turned into killers, bounty hunters also got fed up and turned into 1v1me bros.
- First to lose shields is dead meat. (armor is pointless) Nah that's incorrect, hull-tank builds are very effective (on the right ship). My FAS has 4000+ armour - the last Python player I fought had to run because he ran out of ammo.
- Enormous shields from engineers makes for 20-30 slugfests. Can do, but only with the largest ships (+ FDLs).
Yeah, many of us long for the pre-engineers days.
Many of us still PvP pirate, but CG's are far more dangerous for pirates than they used to be as they are full of FDL gank wings looking for fodder (pirates are prime targets), so we have to be more tactical (pirate builds struggle against full combat builds).
Trying to pirate the trade routes on the other hand is pot-luck, unfortunately they are mostly dead because players who would otherwise trade are usually off grinding the latest credit exploit. I think FDev should make rare trading far more profitable as it will lure a lot of the exploiters back to trading and reboot the trader-pirate-bounty hunter ecosystem which has been pretty much dead since mid season 1.
The 2.1-present reoccurring cargo bug hasn't helped piracy either.
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And that 50% being true REALLY depends upon the time of day, where you live in real life, and what system you're in at the moment. My experiences on the "rare" front changed radically when I started work two hours earlier than I did a year ago. It went from "Really? Again?" to "Where the frell is ANYONE? Helloooo?"
You will have to justify the word 'most' highlighted above since we already know from a direct FD quote that "the majority of players do not get involved in PvP". This would suggest the opposite to what you are saying in your opening statement.
More likely I think is they're in Solo/Private Group because they don't want to be ganked by some wing of children in exploited Engineered combat ships.
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The denying of station access is what I consider a mild punishment for capital crimes in the game.
As far as Anarchy systems are concerned, the crimes are still reported so they are recorded and known by the karma system. However in those systems there will be no security service response and the stations in those systems remain open to the criminal. So just because you are killing people in an Anarchy system does not mean that it has no impact on the tracking of said crimes. It all accumulates and shapes the Criminal into following his or her choice of RP game play.
PvP wasn't even popular before the announcement of the engineer exploit.
If FD don't put out a solid statement saying that there is no doubt that all modules created with the exploit have been removed it's going to go even further downhill for PvP in Elite.
Some of us are looking for reasons to come back to the game. FD being silent about whether or not people are still flying about in god roll ships provides even more reason to stay away.
If FD don't put out a solid statement saying that there is no doubt that all modules created with the exploit have been removed it's going to go even further downhill for PvP in Elite.
Some of us are looking for reasons to come back to the game. FD being silent about whether or not people are still flying about in god roll ships provides even more reason to stay away.
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Wait, what? If you are over 40, you lived through the birth of PvP, in pretty much all settings, MMO (a la UO), XvX (a la Quake, Starcraft, etc etc).
I'm new to Elite but if that ^ is the case, I likely won't be doing much PvP. I like PvP/PK a lot but I want to gain something from it...loot, XP, etc etc...
Yep, I played Duke Nukem 3D on a WAN called DWANGO. That's before win95 TCP/IP gaming that came with Quake.
Most people are too busy grinding to buy a ship or reach a rank or mod their ship. They don't want their labor interrupted by PvP. And if they have expensive ships they don't want to deal with high rebuy costs.
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In my case, very true. Not interested in losing what I have just to provide entertainment for someone else.
Its not risk adverse as there is no risk involved. The group is fatalistic. They know that when they go into open play that they are immediately someone elses plaything regardless to how well equipped your trade or exploration ship is. Your insesant push of having everyone play in solo is the reason why this game is empty and the reason why open is lifeless. 1 streamed forced open CG by FDEV every six months does not mean that Open isnt a husk. It does mean that the community runs off all potential new players and revenue from the company to only further make Open feel more empty.
Calling people carebears also do not help people to your side. In fact it makes you sound like a moron trying to sell a brand. Please get over it. If I am not playing this game I am playing Warthunder, Rust, PUBG, DOW3, Overwatch, Battlefield, WoT and CoD. All of those games have PVP as their central focus and all of those games will always be far superior PVP experience than ED can ever be. That is why I play them. Elite Dangerous was never and will never be created around the premise of PVP. The best FDEV can ever hope for is creating a superior version of CQC. Otherwise whatever they do it wall always feel forced, fake, and uninspired.
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