Hey nutter.
I don't pvp unless forced to. I also won't explore until they have padded it out a bit more.
Thanks for the gr8 vids m8.
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Hey nutter.
I don't pvp unless forced to. I also won't explore until they have padded it out a bit more.
Thanks for the gr8 vids m8.
I agree with this. Such comments, commonly sprinkled with derogatory terms implying cowardice etc, speak more about the person making them than about those who the comments are directed at. While it might seem "wellard" to be dropping such posts in the forum, all it does is paint a picture of an individual who judges their self worth (and that of others) solely in terms of killing ability. Personally, I don't play games to prove anything to anybody, least of all to myself. I leave that to real life.
I got this game because out of the 3 contenders (nms, elite, star citizen) it was the most likely to have decent potential for pvp (star citizen not being complete enough to compete yet).
It has disappointed because of the compromises made to make pvp not matter in the game. Why progress in the game against much harder (usually) human players when you can do everything against brain dead easy NPC's? Then if you wanted the challenge, having it actually work is a shot in the dark because of the crappy networking decisions that were made for the game. After all that, what do you have to show for your time and effort to participate in PVP? Nothing of importance. Fast forward weeks of gameplay time and that desire gets widdled away to nothing.
So I play in open, rather when i did play i was in open, and have over a dozen weeks of gameplay time and I can count the number of hostile pvp interactions on one hand. The game was designed to make it not matter, so it doesn't. Which is a shame because there's so little to do or spend your money on in the game after you've sampled 3 or 4 systems that emergent gameplay between players is really the only interesting thing about it and it's actively designed against making that possible.
tldr;
Too many systems, no incentive, bad networking, poor/no social system, and far too easy to cheat.
It has disappointed because of the compromises made to make pvp not matter in the game. Why progress in the game against much harder (usually) human players when you can do everything against brain dead easy NPC's? Then if you wanted the challenge, having it actually work is a shot in the dark because of the crappy networking decisions that were made for the game. After all that, what do you have to show for your time and effort to participate in PVP? Nothing of importance. Fast forward weeks of gameplay time and that desire gets widdled away to nothing.
So I play in open, rather when i did play i was in open, and have over a dozen weeks of gameplay time and I can count the number of hostile pvp interactions on one hand. The game was designed to make it not matter, so it doesn't. Which is a shame because there's so little to do or spend your money on in the game after you've sampled 3 or 4 systems that emergent gameplay between players is really the only interesting thing about it and it's actively designed against making that possible.
tldr;
Too many systems, no incentive, bad networking, poor/no social system, and far too easy to cheat.
Can you further explain what you mean by this?
My opinion on the problem, for what it's worth, is that in a game that attempts to immerse you in an imaginary universe, encountering people who aren't playing according to that universe is annoying. What I mean is, (and this has only happened to me two or three times) getting attacked by someone who wants to kill you for no reason other than lulz is just not something I want to deal with.
I usually do CGs in open. Around CGs, there are often actual pirates actually roleplaying piracy. They interdict you and make demands that you can choose to meet or choose to take your chances. That's actually fun. I don't know how you would encourage that sort of interaction - which is why I asked you to explain further.
The few times I've been killed for no reason include once on the way to an engineer. Guy interdicted me and nuked me before I had finished spinning. Never said a word. I wasn't terribly upset about it. I was in a cheap ship. It's just that, it didn't make sense in the context of the elite universe the way that piracy or bounty hunting make sense.
The people who get murdered at alien ruins sites or the distress call or the barnacles - I can see why that would them off.
I think they fell foul of the law of unintended consequences. As for being their top priority, well here I must disagree since PvP was never intended to be a major part of the Elite universe so it was never a top priority except in the minds of the PvP only players. The quote was "rare and meaningful" PvP and that hardly implies Top Priority.
But that's just a guess.
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I've played pvp game my whole life from doom on up. Heck I still play Planetside2 regularly (last night in fact). But PVP is so poorly implemented in this game I refuse to even go online anymore. Its a waste of time. It needs to be painless to people who are not in the mood to be bothered and painful to the people who are about to murder someone. The penalty for murder needs to be extreme and police forces should be actively hunting down this criminal like in the real world. My insurance should cover the loss of cargo and ship fully without penalty. The best the PVP murderer can get is a successful kill and cargo as a reward. It should still get a huge penalty and bounty placed on their head. They are an outlaw.
This is why flagging for PVP has worked so well in so many other games.
If I encounter a pirate that is honorable and is role playing i may say .. sure what the heck lets play along and accept the consequences.
This is why flagging for PVP has worked so well in so many other games.
If I encounter a pirate that is honorable and is role playing i may say .. sure what the heck lets play along and accept the consequences.
I don't really care about exploration. I don't like going through thousands of loading screens in order to simply look at balls of different colors and sizes. Each new planet and star you "discover" is practically the same. Just because it's bigger, smaller or of a different color doesn't change much. Once you've seen a couple, you've seen them all.
The reason why pvp is not popular is because having your ship destroyed is just too damn expensive. The combat mechanics are there and they're amazing, but the time you need to "work" just to pay for insurance makes it just not worth it. It's also incredibly hard to destroy a combat ship that doesn't want to fight at all, so bounty hunting pirate players for money is just not a viable career option (in addition to the very bad crime and punishment system). There's also the fact that there is no in-game system for the pvp players to easily find and challenge each other, which means unless you're actively looking for a fight in a populated area, you're never gonna find one.
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A simple case of failure to research your products then IMO, if you bought ED primarily for PvP then you bought the wrong product full-stop.
The Elite games have always been about a single pilot in a vast universe. ED has not departed from this and while the available product description(s) are rather ambiguous in some ways I do not believe they could be considered misleading.
Given the above, it would be pretty naïve to expect a sufficiently high level of player density (on a consistent or regular basis) for proper PvP opportunities (seal clubbing or duck hunting - aka griefing or ganking - are NOT proper PvP IMO) to be anything like a regular occurrence.http://store.steampowered.com/app/359320/Elite_Dangerous/ said:
However, the OP's question was purely why PvP was unpopular, not why PvP is perhaps rare or difficult to find good opportunities for.
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This is an easy one for me for two reasons;
1) Unless its arranged people will always combat log when losing in my experience.
2) People love to pick on wingless people so outside of arranged 90% of the time it will be a wing of 3 when your solo.
I realize some people's experiences are different but that is mine.
1) Unless its arranged people will always combat log when losing in my experience.
2) People love to pick on wingless people so outside of arranged 90% of the time it will be a wing of 3 when your solo.
I realize some people's experiences are different but that is mine.
1) Combat Logging.
2) High Waking is overpowered making it a futile experience hunting someone.
3) Solo Efficiency in Power Play.
4) Solo Efficiency in Minor Factions.
* Solo Efficiency in CG
* Solo Efficiency full stop
5) No effect on killing people (They just come back instantly).
6) Engineer over reliance.
7) Everyone flying top tier ships and therefore all combat is extremely similar. No reason to use small ships. (Problem with balancing/money income/no risk of loss/etc)
8) No criminal system so blues vs reds doesn't exist. Instead, people are turned off because of hardcore ganking.
9) Hard to find people with instancing problems.
10) No way to track people at all.
11) Pointless trying to hunt since you cant tell if enemy is solo, pg or online when in Minor Faction or PP area.
12) No rewards or incentive to do anything with other players, PvP or PvE related.
gg
ez
no re
kappa
2) High Waking is overpowered making it a futile experience hunting someone.
3) Solo Efficiency in Power Play.
4) Solo Efficiency in Minor Factions.
* Solo Efficiency in CG
* Solo Efficiency full stop
5) No effect on killing people (They just come back instantly).
6) Engineer over reliance.
7) Everyone flying top tier ships and therefore all combat is extremely similar. No reason to use small ships. (Problem with balancing/money income/no risk of loss/etc)
8) No criminal system so blues vs reds doesn't exist. Instead, people are turned off because of hardcore ganking.
9) Hard to find people with instancing problems.
10) No way to track people at all.
11) Pointless trying to hunt since you cant tell if enemy is solo, pg or online when in Minor Faction or PP area.
12) No rewards or incentive to do anything with other players, PvP or PvE related.
gg
ez
no re
kappa
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even when there would be a karma system, it would be crap. fdev and 95% of the industry are to soft. getting back to positiv karma would be a way to easy, and the backslashes from negative karma are laughable.
i remember an interview with braben where he said they can put bad behaviour people into the same instance, so they can only gank each other.
i yet have to see that happen.
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I don't understand why FD at least haven't put in a couple of dedicate areas in a system in the bubble for "arenas", where anything goes for TV programs, and all rebuys are covered by these TV companies. And obviously it would all be legal combat too.
They could change periodically to be in open space, asteroid fields, around assets like the ones in CQC (that are already in the core game now).
They could even periodically be limited by ships type so for example one arena could only permit Vipers.
Surely this would at least let people interested in PvP find a means more easily to fighter others? Surely this might take some of the pressure of the all to often used alternative? ie: Interedict anyone/everyone you can?
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That's a nice idea.
The only drawbacks I can see are that PVP commanders that just want to destroy lower grade ships will still do so and those groups/players whose stated aim is to break the game as it is so full of bugs will continue to do so.
However, I'd guess that those are probably only a very small minority and insignificant.
Oh definately! Arena's would only help some players, and in reality not help/cure the toxic activity we all too often see at the moment in the game, which to be honest is what forces more and more CMDRs out of OPEN.
But let's assume at some point soon Sandro puts his C&P (karma) mechanics in. And let's assume it does actually tick all the boxes (at least I think are required):-
- Allows a little illegal destruction (of CMDRs and NPCs) within period Y.
- Penalises increasingly heavily more than X illegal destruction (of CMDRs and NPCs) in period Y.
- Illegal destruction even in anarchy systems is measured.
- The penalties are not huge bounties, but instead being denied docking at more and more stations or indeed denied permits to entire systems. Even being marked as a psycho on otehr CMDR's scanners and assigned a permanent bounty.
- Ideally exiting to menu is improved to show the counter to all CMDRs in the instance and the 15s is increased to 30s or more seconds if hit.
- Combat logging it measured and if happens too often is warned about and penalised.
Now IMHO, that would be a great step forwards, BUT the problem is as the game has sat on its hands for two years as regards PvP gameplay (and general PvE combat scenarios too), so the above is only half the battle. We need Powerplay to offer logical and interesting PvP orientated tasks. We need dedicated CGs in OPEN to offer PvP gameplay. Ideally even some BGS mechanics should push CMDRs togethor for potential PvP via the state of one or two systems, with missions pushing CMDRs against each other.
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I have to say that this does sound like a plan and not too difficult to achieve. Whether or not something like this is ever implemented remains to be seen, but I'd like to think so.
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It of course reads far more simply than the reality of it
eg: The issue of when/where combat is legal or illegal is a good one. eg: You and I are signed up to different powers. When/where can you attack be legally? But I'd hope even this could all be addressed via fairly obvious mechanics of systems where Power X and Y are clearly in conflict, combat being legal, and ideally tasks pushing CMDRs against each other there in interesting combat scenarios.
If the game stays like it now, without any more involved combat scenarios/mechanics for PvE let alone PvP, that doesn't seem a good thing to me...
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It strikes me that this may be a clever bit to backpedal the PVP situation so that it is "rare" at least, if not "meaningful"...
Sorry? Don't follow your point? What am I missing?
The well stated (by FD) design intent regarding PvP was for it to be "rare and meaningful"... based on many discussions around the topic neither applies to the current status quo and at least a few PvPers do not want PvP to be rare...
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