Non-Consensual PvP

Clicking open explicitly indicates a desire to play with random other people rather than with a group of specific people or by yourself, nothing more. The assumption that the word "open" is intended to imply an Eve-style free-for-all is incompatible with dev statements about their vision for the game, stretching from early in the design phase right up to the present.

Consensual vs non-consensual PvP are merely convenient terms to separate what definitely isn't griefing or harassment from what may be.
 
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Well, yes, they need to think that before jumping to conclusion. Pro PvP players will likely believe it's a free-for-all in Open, whereas pro PvE players will likely believe it's just an open area for people to interact, but want to avoid the shooting part unless there is explicit consent given at the time of interaction.

It's no secret I support the former concept, but only with the assumption that there is a working crime and punishment system.

I think your C&P concept is solid & am broadly in favour of it. However I believe there is more fun to be had with some ambiguity, some leeway for lateral thinking. Not every Pirate is as capable as you.

I am curious to know if your recent change in direction is related to this unfolding story?
 
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I think your C&P concept is solid & am broadly in favour of it. However I believe there is more fun to be had with some ambiguity, some leeway for lateral thinking. Not every Pirate is as capable as you.

I am curious to know if your recent change in direction is related to this unfolding story?

I don't consider myself skilled, merely experienced.

I believe a functional crime and punishment system should encourage pilots to take risk in unsafe system in exchange for lucrative profit. This way, there is a distribution of population in almost all spectrum.

Less experienced traders can stick to safer systems with less profit and less risk. Less experienced criminals can stick close to anarchy/low security systems with less risk of being disrupted by authority.
 
I just use the block feature on anyone who shoots at me. My ships are fast enough to outrun any ship that can deal serious damage. I just tempt them by simply being in Open, and when they pounce I block them and jump. It's made Open a much more pleasant experience for me, and with a much higher player density than Mobius PVE.

I only play in Open for the social aspect, and I will always refuse to be someone else's content.
 
I don't consider myself skilled, merely experienced.

I believe a functional crime and punishment system should encourage pilots to take risk in unsafe system in exchange for lucrative profit. This way, there is a distribution of population in almost all spectrum.

Less experienced traders can stick to safer systems with less profit and less risk. Less experienced criminals can stick close to anarchy/low security systems with less risk of being disrupted by authority.

I'm not a great combat pilot, I can avoid taking hits well but struggle to lay down effective fire in return. I play in Open but 99% alone & PvE, apart from my location (I avoid hotspots like a true country bumkin) I am probably very much a pirate's content, and avoiding them is content for me.

Your proposed C&P system would of course apply to all, you and I both. I am careful to only pirate (PvE) in anarchy system, and maintain a squeaky clean image but occasionally make mistakes & get a bounty. I don't suicidewinder it away, so on those occasions I run for the hills & explore for a week or so until the heat has died down & then return to pay off the fine.

If FDev are to implement an AI-based C&P system it needs to be able to allow me to escape, but still be a sufficient deterrent/fun for a player at your level (and familiarity with the wrong side of the law). I struggle with envisioning something that would accommodate us both, inevitably it will always be too lenient at your end, or too harsh at mine. I have thousands of hours in ED & have played Elite in one form or another for 30+ years, I'm unlikely to git much gudder :)

ED is not a game designed to be played as a goodie, it's intended to simply present you with a moral choice & allow the player to act out those choices consciously, and being a successful baddie is clearly more exciting. For a C&P system to get approval for implementation it needs to allow for players like myself as well as the freeform PvP pirates & gank squads it's intended to reign in or provide a challenge for.


I believe the Engineers system is effectively a difficulty slider for PvE, and that a fully kitted out G5 loadout is for playing PvE at the easiest setting.
Right now we have a whole bunch of PvP enthusiasts who have non-engineered modules, and the perfect opportunity for a charismatic community leader to persuade these guys that rocking around in easy-mode is deeply, deeply uncool & that using non-engineered ships is the hardcore way to go.

What do you think?
 
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Fired on an Anaconda yesterday, whilst in my DBS to see if he wanted to fight. He came about and engaged. Long story short, I took out his shields, then his shield generator as his shields were about to come back online online. As I disengaged to tell him it was a good fight I noticed he combat logged. I then got a message saying that it wasn't fair that I attacked him and that I was in a far superior ship. Go figure.
 
Sorry... I just had to take an excerpt from a massive threadnaught doing the rounds in Discussion...



I agreed with you until you used "Consensual PvP"

What The Fig?

This game has an Open mode... By joining that mode, you are GIVING YOUR EXPLICIT PERMISSION to be intercepted/ganked/101mps bump-StationDestroyed/laughed at AND PVPed by other player.
That is Open.

Let me tell you what non consensual PvP is... That is playing in a SPECIFICALLY non PVP group and someone breaks the rules... But no, even then, there is a Mobius disclaimer which states that since it is unofficial, it cannot GUARANTEE someone will not break the rules... So even if you join Mobius, you are giving your EXPLICIT consent to the CHANCE of being ganked/etc/etc/...

There is only one true way to be forced into non-consensual PvP (eww. this term is so distasteful it literally leaves a bad taste on my keyboard as I type it) and that is if you join Solo and someone, somehow manages to hack your instance and destroy you.... THAT is non-consensual.

Basically...

You are mistaking your preconception of what Open should be with what it actually is.
The fact is it is up to FDEV to make sure that Open is enjoyable for as many people as they can... if they want to... if they don't, you're just going to have to accept the rough with the smooth.

If you live in Open, you die in Open... It's as simple as that.

If you don't like Open, vote with your feet (or thrusters) and stay in PG or Solo.
If enough people stay away, FDEV will (hopefully) get the message and create a proper, realistic, playable and most importantly FUN Open.

But please, don't come here with your safe-space, antiseptic language....

eww... I'm going to wash my keyboard with soap....

p.s. This is coming from someone who was a CG only Open player, not a hardcore groupie.

Consensual is irrelevant. It doesn't matter what ship you're flying either. Nor do you have to introduce yourself to your future victim before opening fire.

Potential victims, keep rebuy cash handy. And if you get killed, go to solo for a while. Don't 'friend' your killer either. Get a 'good' ship that can take 20 seconds of pounding and log off in 15. :)
 
Consensual is irrelevant. It doesn't matter what ship you're flying either. Nor do you have to introduce yourself to your future victim before opening fire

Consensual is entirely relevant. Why do pew-pews continually fail to understand that?

You are playing a game in which you look for pew-pew. You love pew-pew. Its what you game for.

Everyone else playing the game has the utter ability to remove you from pew-pew. Even other pew-pews. Some pew-pews will take it to the point where you can never pew-pew them, and put you all alone in a pew-pew bucket filled only with yourself, free to pew-pew imaginary enemies and seal-club NPC's for the rest of eternity.

Have fun!
 
agree.

it's almost like people want a guarantee that nothing bad or unexpected will ever happen to them. Like they want the predictability of 1980's video game coding to rely on.

Open is fine. You have the ability to make unexpected pvp nearly impossible by just not visiting popular systems. There's plenty of systems out there and they're all basically the same.

It'd be nice if there were 2 different open servers so you'd have the one the way it exists now, and you could have a server so people can play together in pve with pvp disabled. I personally refuse to pvp in ANY game from elite dangerous to world of warcraft to quake. I do not pvp. But, I still want to play with other people, I want to see other players, I want to talk to them, I want to coop missions with them against NPCs. I do not like that in this game both of those environments and forced together. Maybe they could just change the private group or solo into open with pvp 100% disabled, that'd be nice
 
Misread a prior comment

But as a pirate I do not want to see this idea of Open requiring 'consent flags' as in other games for PvP. It would ruin space piracy.
 
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Misread a prior comment

But as a pirate I do not want to see this idea of Open requiring 'consent flags' as in other games for PvP. It would ruin space piracy.

People already trade in open because they enjoy the possibility of being pirated. There's no reason they wouldn't trade with the PvP flag enabled for the same reason.
 
People already trade in open because they enjoy the possibility of being pirated. There's no reason they wouldn't trade with the PvP flag enabled for the same reason.

You'd be surprised by the random stupid comments I see in forums and ingame. I actually have a really good video example but that would be naming and shaming, suffice to say it involved an unnamed CMDR that got upset I disabled his ship for his cargo and logged after he tried to tell me to stop pirating. Kicker is his ship had pirate paint.

And I'm a pirate that doesn't try to kill traders. The ones that do probably see crazier comments.
 
You'd be surprised by the random stupid comments I see in forums and ingame. I actually have a really good video example but that would be naming and shaming, suffice to say it involved an unnamed CMDR that got upset I disabled his ship for his cargo and logged after he tried to tell me to stop pirating. Kicker is his ship had pirate paint.

And I'm a pirate that doesn't try to kill traders. The ones that do probably see crazier comments.

Fair enough, but PvP flagging shouldn't make that kind of thing any more common than it is now. If anything, it might make it less common by ensuring that pirates would only be going after traders who consciously choose to enable PvP, and are therefore more likely to want to play out the encounter.
 
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Fair enough, but PvP flagging shouldn't make that kind of thing any more common than it is now. If anything, it might make it less common by ensuring that pirates would only be going after traders who consciously choose to enable PvP, and are therefore more likely to want to play out the encounter.

We already have PvP flagging, it's called choosing Open. Adding another flag onto Open means that piracy becomes pointless.

While we are at it might as well remove hardpoints too, gotta make sure no one is hurt.
 
Fair enough, but PvP flagging shouldn't make that kind of thing any more common than it is now. If anything, it might make it less common by ensuring that pirates would only be going after traders who consciously choose to enable PvP, and are therefore more likely to want to play out the encounter.

Thats a very idealistic view. What will most probably happen is some people will raise the flag and then still throw insults and log, because you know, people like to troll and grief, even non PvPer, shock horror
 
We already have PvP flagging, it's called choosing Open. Adding another flag onto Open means that piracy becomes pointless.

Like you say, people already choose to fly with the possibility of PvP. Why would they stop just because it became a literal flag rather than a mode choice?

Thats a very idealistic view. What will most probably happen is some people will raise the flag and then still throw insults and log, because you know, people like to troll and grief, even non PvPer, shock horror

Probably. Although at the risk of repeating myself, even in the worst case where we assume everybody who does that is deliberately trolling, having a PvP flag still wouldn't make it happen any more often than it does now.
 
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