The problem with the new C&P improvements

Yeah, new C&P improvements, all nice.

But this is all extremly easy to abuse against other players. Dishonorable PVPers who will interdict you asking for a duel, but turn crimes ON when they start losing, or people who lure you into shooting first. You will become wanted and all of these C&P improvements will punish YOU even though you're not the one who started a fight. We've also seen fights where the enemy wing had crimes OFF but they had a healer with them who had crimes ON. Shooting the healer made you wanted, even though they started the fight and all of them were wanted except the healer.


There has to be a clear way of telling who has crimes ON and who has them OFF. This way we can also tell who's looking for a fight and thus not waste time on PVEers. The option should be locked during fights to prevent switching and luring too.[alien]
I completely agree with this. +1

I like the principle behind the new C&P improvements but it is way too open to exploitation and trolling against those of us who seek honest and honourable PvP fights. Earth Ultimatum's suggestions make perfect sense and I hope they will be implemented.
 
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Simple, elegant, works with RP/Lore ... I LOVE IT!

If Frontier combine your suggestion with the OP's suggestion of other Cmdrs being able to see whether RC is off or on within the basic scan, this is a problem solved.
Oh no, please not. I often switch crimes on/off on the go depending on the system where I'm in, when I haul something I want crimes on in a system where its legal but when I come across a system where its illegal I turn it off so the cops don't show up should I get attacked. If I have to go the station first its rather pointless as I don't need to turn it off once I made the delivery in the station.
 
As much as I usually respect your opinion silver I still say no. I want the ability to lie in a duel; surely that adds more possibilities/tension then not being able to? Do I trust this dude enough to duel him or will it cost me dearly if he cons me, could lead to some career long rivalries and disputes. But maybe that's just me.

If I'm understanding the suggestion right...

They can still backstab you but only if you fired first. They just turn it on mid fight, same as before.

So I don't think it fixes Truesilver's complaint, that there should be a way to have an honourable duel where one player can't give the other a PR bounty just because they are losing.
 
If I'm understanding the suggestion right...

They can still backstab you but only if you fired first. They just turn it on mid fight, same as before.

So I don't think it fixes Truesilver's complaint, that there should be a way to have an honourable duel where one player can't give the other a PR bounty just because they are losing.

But they can have that by stepping next door to a anarchy; if you choose to duel in governed space you'd better trust the opponent.
 
So why bother with PvP in game at that point then. You may as well have CQC with normal ships in a separate game mode. HECK LETS GO ONE STEP FURTHER, LETS TAKE THE GUNS OFF ALL THE SHIPS IN OPEN, AMIRITE!?!?

Thargoid content for pews? NAW!

No, you'd still be in open - it would just act like a "PVP Wing" which would allow players to drop into instances and then engage each other... it would all still be done in the same regular space... and most importantly, the point about the making money from the fight.... but it would all still be in the open mode space.
 
No, you'd still be in open - it would just act like a "PVP Wing" which would allow players to drop into instances and then engage each other... it would all still be done in the same regular space... and most importantly, the point about the making money from the fight.... but it would all still be in the open mode space.

Uh, no thanks.

I like having random people come try to kill me.

I don't want ELITE: Snore fest.

My bottom line is this, as the core game is pretty boring outside of PvP,

GIVE US HARDER AI.
If you're going to make it so we CAN'T PvP without it being set up before hand GIVE US WORTHY FOES.
The potato brained AI NEEDS TO GO.
 
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But they can have that by stepping next door to a anarchy; if you choose to duel in governed space you'd better trust the opponent.

Hmm the more I think about it the more it seems to make sense.

I think PvP in it's current form does have to change.

PvE players have had enough really of the zero repercussions thing.

I know it's not how it is now but would consensual repercussion free PvP in anarchy zones be such a bad thing?

I mean I can't just go and kill someone in the street because we both agreed can I.

There would be nothing stopping PvP in lawful systems, it's just a there's a risk a PF bounty will happen.

It will encourage PvP in lesser (cheaper) ships, which could actually be a positive. Certainly for PvPers among themselves, but also for PvErs being attacked...

A (low skill) PvEer is in an Anaconda and they get attacked by a (high skill) Vulture, game on! Much better than the usual scenario now, low skill PvE in a standard Conda gets interdicted by an over-engineer min/max war machine on steroids flown by a high-skill dedicated player killer.
 
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Repeating the same wrong point over and over again and supporting trolling while not even having any experience and knowledge, is the disgusting thing here.


You seem to have set yourself up as the judge as to who can contribute to this thread; you've even managed to misidentify some known pirates and pvp'ers as solo carebears lol. Why bother starting a conversation if your going to filter out all but the 'pure'( in your head ) correspondents?
 
Repeating the same wrong point over and over again and supporting trolling while not even having any experience and knowledge, is the disgusting thing here.

I don't think you have as much experience in the is game as I do, you have focused on just a small part of it (and know it well). You are blinkered by your inexperience & that makes it more difficult for you to consider other options that take you out of your comfort zone.

I don't hold it against you ;)

I said earlier in the thread, fools are caught out by trolls. We all have bad days though.
 
You seem to have set yourself up as the judge as to who can contribute to this thread; you've even managed to misidentify some known pirates and pvp'ers as solo carebears lol. Why bother starting a conversation if your going to filter out all but the 'pure'( in your head ) correspondents?

He mentions avoiding a blockade as his "PVP experience", lmao, and indeed what he's saying is wrong. This requires no judging to see, and all I ask for is a small HUD icon/line.
 
But this is a videogame. PVP is the endgame for many players.
Also, you don't become wanted by only killing someone, even landing a single shot already makes you wanted.


Not Wanted, but fined. Assault only becomes an instant Bounty when you shoot an Authority ship. For more details please reference: Piracy.
 
Yeah, new C&P improvements, all nice.

But this is all extremly easy to abuse against other players. Dishonorable PVPers who will interdict you asking for a duel, but turn crimes ON when they start losing, or people who lure you into shooting first. You will become wanted and all of these C&P improvements will punish YOU even though you're not the one who started a fight. We've also seen fights where the enemy wing had crimes OFF but they had a healer with them who had crimes ON. Shooting the healer made you wanted, even though they started the fight and all of them were wanted except the healer.


There has to be a clear way of telling who has crimes ON and who has them OFF. This way we can also tell who's looking for a fight and thus not waste time on PVEers. The option should be locked during fights to prevent switching and luring too.[alien]


I imagine this is only the portion of the system that they would use to track Pilots Federations crimes. For the time being this can be used to track what ship caused what crimes and puts in the Pilots Fed Bounty system.

With those 2 systems in place the introduction of the Karma system can come into play. Essentially they have just created the Base Crime tracking system. The most basic form of C&P. With this tool in place, they can do things like disable the flag on the aggressor ship. So if you interdict any player ship, then with this system in place they can make it so that inside that instance no mater what is done to the aggressor ship, that crimes cannot be levied against the target ship/player.

It will also allow things such as Pilots Federation Bounty levels adversely impacting Karma and therefore lead to further levels of punishment. Such as the higher the bounty the more often a crime is committed, the less access to start ports is allowed. Eventually once the bounty is high enough they can do things like increase rebuy, Increase Fines, and start taking away ships if the most hardcore of player killers continue.

The fact that you will be able to use other ships to pay for rebuy means that they can now track what ships are in what kind of system at the time of Death. So if you have a player killer, you can do things like impound ships in systems that are not anarchy. The only way to get those ships back would be to increase your Karma. If there is a ship that has been impounded for example and you get blown up and you want to use one of those ships as collateral, well you would not be able to do so. Its already impounded.

There is tons of stuff they can do to make this a well fleshed out fair and plausible system. With the introduction of the 2.4 changes it will essentially set up a system that will allow you to commit as much crime as you want while feeding you enough rope to hang yourself. Eventually the hangman will come calling and whatever you have done will be well deserved by that point.

It also sets up a system in which to gain positive Karmic points. I think its a good start/base to a possibly great system in the future.
 
I don't think you have as much experience in the is game as I do, you have focused on just a small part of it (and know it well). You are blinkered by your inexperience & that makes it more difficult for you to consider other options that take you out of your comfort zone.

I don't hold it against you ;)

I said earlier in the thread, fools are caught out by trolls. We all have bad days though.

I have experienced everything in this game, from trading-smuggling-exploration to all kinds of PVP and hauling, while you mention "avoiding a blockade" as your big PVP experience. Clearly inexperienced.

But we're getting off track.

Not Wanted, but fined. Assault only becomes an instant Bounty when you shoot an Authority ship. For more details please reference: Piracy.

Nope, it's an instant bounty. If the player you landed a single shot at has crimes ON, you immidiatelly become wanted.
 
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