The problem with the new C&P improvements

[Mohrgan]

Getting tired of trolling are we? If my desktop wasn't dead, I wouldn't bother with forum PVP, don't worry.

Label it what you like. Your opinion of me and mine is of no moment. So, you are just waging a little Forum Tirade because you are separated from your game? That certainly sounds more like Trolling, than what I have been doing.

Asking FD to protect you from the meanies out there sure comes off like all of those stinking traders hiding in Mobius.

 

[_trent_]

That renders silent/cold running useless, and concordant/regeneration will heal your opponent during the fight.

That's true. It's definitely not a catch-all solution.

But.... The fact that the programming already exists that allows winging up to prevent crimes being reported even while 'report crimes against me' is turned on does suggest that there should be a method to prevent trolls tricking legitimate duellists into incurring bounties. Exactly how is probably a conundrum requiring more thought than I have available to devote to it. I think I'll leave that to the PvP enthusiast who have more insight into that side of the game.

 

[Earth Ultimatum IV.]

Asking FD to protect you from the meanies out there sure comes off like all of those stinking traders hiding in Mobius.

I'm asking FD to not waste my time and to not allow gameplay mechanics to be abused in unintended ways.

 

[Mohrgan]

I'm asking FD to not waste my time and to not allow gameplay mechanics to be abused in unintended ways.

You sound exactly like those looking to push PvP out of Open. That argument is the exact same argument used by many players against non-consensual PvP. How do you think you can justify a big enough difference between the two, that would persuade FD to save you from one, and not the other? You just don;t care one whit about credibility, do you?

 

[bitstorm]

I'm asking FD to not waste my time and to not allow gameplay mechanics to be abused in unintended ways.

Sorry mate, more I think about this, just go to an anarchy, it's not like 99.999975% of the galaxy isn't anarchy.

What you've put in OP I don't think is feasible for the reasons discussed.

In the end you can do PvP anywhere, you're just risking a bounty in lawful systems.

Really not seeing anything wrong there, you have an anarchy opt out.

And the change will bring more benefit to the game than saving you a jump.

 

[Nazdakka]

Nevermind.

 

[pippo]

There has to be a clear way of telling who has crimes ON and who has them OFF. This way we can also tell who's looking for a fight and thus not waste time on PVEers.

I'm what you call a PvEer, and I also happen to play in Open.
I turn Crime Reporting Off most of the time because I also happen to enjoy stealing cargo from pirates when they interdict me, last thing I want is for the police to turn up while I'm scooping the loot.

I thought the PVP flag idea was a dead horse (so people say), I too, don't want a PVP flag system, and even more so, I don't want a PVP flag on my head simply because I don't like the police snooping around my activites.

Thanks, but no thanks.
(If that makes any sense)

 

[Earth Ultimatum IV.]

You sound exactly like those looking to push PvP out of Open. That argument is the exact same argument used by many players against non-consensual PvP. How do you think you can justify a big enough difference between the two, that would persuade FD to save you from one, and not the other? You just don;t care one whit about credibility, do you?

Pulling out the strawman now, eh?
I already said multiple times, I'd be fine with it if it actually had any gameplay value. Make the "liar" wanted aswell so he's identified for others and I get his bounty when I actually kill him despite his betrayal. Give me outlaw reputation and rewards that turn the wanted status from a "annoyance" to actual gameplay. I would be fully fine with that, but at the current state it's nothing but a waste of time and a pain in the bum. Increasing C&P while keeping exploits alive would be such a sucky thing to do.

I'm what you call a PvEer, and I also happen to play in Open.
I turn Crime Reporting Off most of the time because I also happen to enjoy stealing cargo from pirates when they interdict me, last thing I want is for the police to turn up while I'm scooping the loot.

I thought the PVP flag idea was a dead horse (so people say), I too, don't want a PVP flag system, and even more so, I don't want a PVP flag on my head simply because I don't like the police snooping around my activites.

Thanks, but no thanks.
(If that makes any sense)

I'm not asking for a PVP flag, I'm asking for a crime status flag. You're still free to attack.

Sorry mate, more I think about this, just go to an anarchy, it's not like 99.999975% of the galaxy isn't anarchy.

What you've put in OP I don't think is feasible for the reasons discussed.

In the end you can do PvP anywhere, you're just risking a bounty in lawful systems.

Really not seeing anything wrong there, you have an anarchy opt out.

And the change will bring more benefit to the game than saving you a jump.

Already said multiple times that that's not how PVP works and it's not an option too many times.

 

[bitstorm]

Pulling out the strawman now, eh?
I already said multiple times, I'd be fine with it if it actually had any gameplay value. Make the "liar" wanted aswell so he's identified for others and I get his bounty when I actually kill him despite his betrayal. Give me outlaw reputation and rewards that turn the wanted status from a "annoyance" to actual gameplay. I would be fully fine with that, but at the current state it's nothing but a waste of time and a pain in the bum. Increasing C&P while keeping exploits alive would be such a sucky thing to do.

Ironically you are asking for an underworld crime and punishment system.

 

[bitstorm]

Already said multiple times that that's not how PVP works and it's not an option too many times.

Sure but as I already said, PvP has to change, and it will, that is inevitable.

If you're saying there can be no change, you are going to be disappointed.

 

[Mohrgan]

Pulling out the strawman now, eh?
I already said multiple times, I'd be fine with it if it actually had any gameplay value. Make the "liar" wanted aswell so he's identified for others and I get his bounty when I actually kill him despite his betrayal. Give me outlaw reputation and rewards that turn the wanted status from a "annoyance" to actual gameplay. I would be fully fine with that, but at the current state it's nothing but a waste of time and a pain in the bum. Increasing C&P while keeping exploits alive would be such a sucky thing to do.



I'm not asking for a PVP flag, I'm asking for a crime status flag. You're still free to attack.

I think you'll get better game play with a Notoriety System. But, you won;t get good game play out of hand holding from FD. Lying cannot be a crime. Tricking you is not a crime. As mentioned any number of times, you are in control of your fate here. You can make better choices, and stay safe. Stay out of CG's, and other popular systems and the meanies won;t be able to find you. When you accept a duel, go to an Anarchy system. You will be perfectly safe from the tricksters.

 

[Earth Ultimatum IV.]

Ironically you are asking for an underworld crime and punishment system.

No, I'm saying that they either make the crimes status visible on UI to prevent exploiting for trolling, or they rework it into a gameplay mechanic that would make it worth being wanted.

 

[Martian Successor]

Sorry mate, more I think about this, just go to an anarchy, it's not like 99.999975% of the galaxy isn't anarchy.

What you've put in OP I don't think is feasible for the reasons discussed.

In the end you can do PvP anywhere, you're just risking a bounty in lawful systems.

Really not seeing anything wrong there, you have an anarchy opt out.

And the change will bring more benefit to the game than saving you a jump.

Restricting PvP for those who wish not to have our time wasted by trolls to Anarchies is not a solution.

Many an honourable PvPer has a minor faction with a home system like AA has Eravate for example. What are the pilots of AA for example supposed to do? Ask all the trolls and seal clubbers to politely move to an Anarchy system for a fight? The OP's sugestions are not a big deal. They are simply a tweak so as to avoid toxic trolling much like the tweak to lock/unlock utilities/SCB access when in Multi-crew. It is just a simple anti-troll tweak.

 

[bitstorm]

No, I'm saying that they either make the crimes status visible on UI to prevent exploiting for trolling, or they rework it into a gameplay mechanic that would make it worth being wanted.

Making it visible fixes nothing though, I could still turn it on mid-fight.

 

[Earth Ultimatum IV.]

Making it visible fixes nothing though, I could still turn it on mid-fight.

I can just stop shooting then.

 

[Mohrgan]

No, I'm saying that they either make the crimes status visible on UI to prevent exploiting for trolling, or they rework it into a gameplay mechanic that would make it worth being wanted.

If you mean being chased by the authorities and BHs, while loosing access to services as '...worth being wanted...' I believe you will get your wish with the coming changes. Being a full time criminal, should turn you into a full time criminal.

Protecting you from the tricksters out there is not an intended outcome. Nor should it be. Attacks will continue, so will lying.

 

[bitstorm]

What are the pilots of AA for example supposed to do? Ask all the trolls and seal clubbers to politely move to an Anarchy system for a fight? The OP's sugestions are not a big deal. They are simply a tweak so as to avoid toxic trolling much like the tweak to lock/unlock utilities/SCB access when in Multi-crew. It is just a simple anti-troll tweak.

But the idea is they will have a galaxy wide bounty right?

On OPs suggestions, it is not in a PvE players interest to have report crimes disabled during combat, it's a hindrance to these players.

It is only of benefit for a subset of PvPers.

I can just stop shooting then.

Hmm. Too late I'd imagine, you think this would be a good solution?

Report state visibility makes sense when combined with your other suggestion, ie if it's locked during combat, not sure it works on it's own though.

I mean could I just use it as an "shield" during say ammo reloads?

 

[Martian Successor]

Protecting you from the tricksters out there is not an intended outcome. Nor should it be. Attacks will continue, so will lying.

The devs have to at least try to lessen the options of trolls to troll. Or do we suddenly want the game to always deliver the most toxic experience possible?

 

[Earth Ultimatum IV.]

If you mean being chased by the authorities and BHs, while loosing access to services as '...worth being wanted...' I believe you will get your wish with the coming changes. Being a full time criminal, should turn you into a full time criminal.

There's no game in it. All you get are annoyances. You won't get anything for catching that liar cause he's not even wanted for doing so (despite your computer recording the whole thing). NPCs aren't afraid. You don't get your cartel, you don't get any shady missions either, there's not even a rank for it. Unless there's any gain in being wanted, and there's absolutely no punishment or recognision for the liar, it's nothing but a useless waste of time and a troll.

But the idea is they will have a galaxy wide bounty right?

On OPs suggestions, it is not in a PvE players interest to have report crimes disabled during combat, it's a hindrance to these players.

It is only of benefit for a subset of PvPers.



Hmm. Too late I'd imagine, you think this would be a good solution?

Report state visibility makes sense when combined with your other suggestion, ie if it's locked during combat, not sure it works on it's own though.

I mean could I just use it as an "shield" during say ammo reloads?

Could add a cooldown. Let's say your attacker activates crime reporting, you immidiatelly get the HUD icon but it starts reporting the crimes after 30 seconds.

 

[Mohrgan]

Restricting PvP for those who wish not to have our time wasted by trolls to Anarchies is not a solution.

Many an honourable PvPer has a minor faction with a home system like AA has Eravate for example. What are the pilots of AA for example supposed to do? Ask all the trolls and seal clubbers to politely move to an Anarchy system for a fight? The OP's sugestions are not a big deal. They are simply a tweak so as to avoid toxic trolling much like the tweak to lock/unlock utilities/SCB access when in Multi-crew. It is just a simple anti-troll tweak.

AA will only shoot those that are wanted, or are KoS. Trolls and Seal Clubbers get bounties too. They will attack the KoS targets and accept the consequences. That's what they do, and will likely continue doing. It is not uncommon for AA members to go to Anarchy systems for sport. Honorable PvP'ers can go around with their Report Crimes off. Gankers won't, but they rarely stick around for the end anyway.

Toxic trolling is part of the open experience. Or so I have been told, and read on more occasions than can be counted. Open is open. If you don't like it, play in Solo.