Alien archeology and other mysteries: Thread 10 - The Canonn

Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.
First notable difference between all the ruins, is that the "System Map" and "Galaxy Map" are far more common than the "Home System Map".

The main differences between the "System Map" and "Home System Map" is the former's ability to be used quite loosely and liberally to represent celestial bodies in a system. Therefore, you could have 1 Systam Map or 3+, to represent the make-up/form of that particular unique system. It could take several Alpha (Galaxy Map) and Beta ruins (System Map) to justify the presents of the planets in a single system. The "Galaxy Map", I think, can be used for some "spares" at the very least, but it is often used to support the other fragments in the whole map.

The "Home System Map" almost always has the same, relevant number of celestial objects (planets, stars, nebulas) at all times - these may number between 8 or 12 different set-ups, but they will almost always have a high number of Obelisks. The same cannot be said about the "System Map" or "Galaxy Map", as they can vary wildly between being very "full" or "sparse", as these are dependant on the numbers of celestial objects and the number of ruins in the same system.

Hope that helps :)

Edit: Hoping this image clarifies even further :)


Edit 2: The Yellow Circled are represented by this image - sorry for missing it:


One way to put some meat behind your hypothesis here would be to go back to the original ruins site and see if the system map there matches the ruins' layout. I could go do it myself here in a bit as I'm out in the area.

B
 
My recent assertion was that the convoys were taking them to the shell - which I disavowed only a page or so back.

I guess, though, the idea of a human-alien collaboration can't be discounted.

If you have two branches of the same alien species around, one war-like and the other not-so, then - just as humans are experts in killing humans - it stands to reason that the more placid aliens will have the knowledge required to kill the naughty ones.

Perhaps there's a human agency behind the scenes which knew this, and has been fostering some kind of relationship before their existence becomes unavoidable common knowledge.

^ This, and I would also go back to canonical Thargoid lore about there being three different factions; one of which being potentially friendly to humans. It's certainly possible that that particular faction is out there attempting to contact us or intercede on our behalf in some way, not to mention the lack of any direct hostility from any Thargoid ship against us (hyperdictions and barnacle "harvesting" have netted zero armed conflicts between us and them even if it were that the hyperdictions are warnings or shows of force against us)...
 
I just noticed something while farnarcling around Merope 5C barnacle (which is currently ripe) and noticed something when "opening" a barnacle spire. The effect looks like a space distortion when it explodes. I would not expect it to be an air compression effect you see from high-speed recordings of explosions as that is an atmospheric effect, and there is no atmosphere here to effect.


It might not be that visible in daylight, but I noticed it with the contrast between the background and the lighting from my ship and SRV. It looks more obvious in video than a single screenshot.

Interesting. Perhaps the flowerships harvest something from these barnacles that makes their hyperspace technology work.
 
My Sunday has just been ruined :)

http://i.imgur.com/NouP37P.png

Only 20 Ly from The Cetes (and this is the third system with ruins in Col 173 Sector UU-O)

Edit: Interesting - first discoverer for some of this system is CMDR Synjorai (discoverer of the Cetes) - wonder if they passed through before the ruins were in place (though I guess that was millions of years ago ;))

Yeah, found these yesterday early afternoon myself, thought that I'd discovered something new, then found them listed on the ruins' site website. Damn.
 
Good point! And yeah it was DrewW. He basically said to remember that Thargoids was just the name that we'd given to them, not what they called themselves, and that we could equally call the flowerships etc. Thargoids but that it didn't necessarily mean they were the same beings as the previous Thargoids. (And hats off to Drew in fairness for not giving the game away while also not saying anything untrue!)

Well, I've just struggled through that Lavecon video (again!) and didn't hear anything to confirm two species of Thargoids.
@Lord Zoltan: did you get this from the video, or elsewhere?
 
One way to put some meat behind your hypothesis here would be to go back to the original ruins site and see if the system map there matches the ruins' layout. I could go do it myself here in a bit as I'm out in the area.

B

Thanks for the offer BDC but not to worry, I've got the Ruin map and System map to work from :)

I've been busy going to all the ruins and taking a picture of each available "Symbol" - I've still got some to finish off, and then I'll make a complete list to "alphabetisize" them (if that's a word? lol).

Interesting to note in these two images, below, taken at the Gamme Site... They are "Unique" compared to the Alpha and Beta sites...

At first, I thought they might represent Celestial Bodies... but now I'm wondering if these are kind of pictograms for "ships"...

gTnn5u7.png

0Q3V3UT.png

Strange, a?
 
Last edited:
Well, I've just struggled through that Lavecon video (again!) and didn't hear anything to confirm two species of Thargoids.
@Lord Zoltan: did you get this from the video, or elsewhere?

There has always been indications of two groups. T. James description of Oresrians and Klaxians is the most concrete.

We have no idea If they are separate species. It could be like feds and Imps or like Guardians and exiled Guardians.

They could be flying the same ships for all we know.

We just need to consider all possibilites when interpreting their actions.
 
There has always been indications of two groups. T. James description of Oresrians and Klaxians is the most concrete.

We have no idea If they are separate species. It could be like feds and Imps or like Guardians and exiled Guardians.

They could be flying the same ships for all we know.

We just need to consider all possibilites when interpreting their actions.

With all this talk about Oresrians and Klaxians I had to look it up.

Here's the eBook by Wagar; http://www.drewwagar.com/downloads/books/oolite/Finis.pdf

It looks as if it's a fan-fiction for a game called Oolite; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oolite_(video_game)

"Oolite is a free and open source 3D space trading and combat simulator in the spirit of Elite".

Considering Oresrians and Klaxians are from fan-fiction based on the Oolite game (which isn't Elite nor has anything to do with Frontier), why are people assuming Wagar's novel has anything to do with the actual lore behind the real Elite: Dangerous franchise?

Edit; here we go, in one of the first pages: "A novella based on the space trading game Oolite." So... yeah... they (Oresrians and Klaxians) aren't canon in Frontier's Elite universe... I take it no one at Frontier has backed up anything from this story to support anything written in it?

Okay, seems to be that way back in 2013, the first post ever mentioning "Oresrians" was this: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...ra-Thargoids-!!!?p=88981&viewfull=1#post88981

Since then, it seems "Oresrians and Klaxians" have polluted the mix of opinion (okay, it basically looks like "fake news"). Aliens were briefly described in "The Dark Wheel" by the looks of it, but there was never any mention of such "Oresrians and Klaxians" - correct me if I am wrong with sources.

Seems to be that players have unwittingly followed a hare down a rabbit hole with talk of "Oresrians and Klaxians" that was entirely the imagination of Wagar in a fan-fiction book series, based on Oolite and lightly based on "The Dark Wheel".

T.James has one book for sale: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Darkness-Elite-Dangerous-James/dp/1500950718

But as of yet I cannot find any references for him mentioning Oresrians and Klaxians - did the author know these creations were based on fan-fiction from a universe that isn't the Elite franchise? Sources from his book would be most welcome because I'm not paying £5 for an eBook just to control+f to find out.
 
Last edited:
Well, I've just struggled through that Lavecon video (again!) and didn't hear anything to confirm two species of Thargoids.
@Lord Zoltan: did you get this from the video, or elsewhere?

There has always been indications of two groups. T. James description of Oresrians and Klaxians is the most concrete.

We have no idea If they are separate species. It could be like feds and Imps or like Guardians and exiled Guardians.

They could be flying the same ships for all we know.

We just need to consider all possibilites when interpreting their actions.

Yeah it wasn't in the video - it was a mental leap (justified also by previous lore) that if we have one alien that we are apparently told is 'so alien in every way' (or words to that effect from DBOBE and the Spaceloach), and now we know that UAs are Thargoid, then it threw up an immediate possibility to me that they're made by an alien which is trying to appeal to humanity (because of the morse).

Outside of some *really* devious masterplan to seduce us with UAs in order get us to seed our own destruction (MAs being an immediate 'cure' - but possibly not), it seemed to me we have an alien that's almost desperate to communicate, or at least is happy with us knowing, and even understanding, parts of what they're up to.

That doesn't seem like the actions of an ultra-alien species which can lay waste to a couple of Capships.

Hypothesis around the UA 'Masterplan'/MA Cure 'doubts'

Like many things, now, after so many people's comments over the years, this isn't an entirely original idea

Sandro's other comments from one or two E3 interviews hinted at an element of social engineering with UAs and MAs - something that's been lurking away certainly at the back of my mind for a while.

So perhaps UAs are designed to be enticing to us (inside 4th wall: designed by Thargs) specifically to encourage us to spread them.

This would mean that station failures were not accidental - but an intentional function of the UAs.

We then rush to ship mills of tonnes of meta alloy to fix them, and even make cargo racks out of the stuff, because it appears to stop the UA 'self-repair' mechanism, according to Palin.

We took that to mean MAs were a 'cure', or a defence against UA damage. And we felt good.

But what if the reality is something significantly more sinister? A baby cries when it's hungry, and causes havoc until it is fed. What if this 'self-repair mechanism' is something more significant? We never really understood exactly what the UA was repairing itself against - just dismissed it as irrelevant.

Well - what if Meta Alloy doesn't protect against UA damage - it actually satiates the UA. So what does a UA do when it's satiated? Grow, perhaps?

Or perhaps the UA damage was just another trick: to get us to stumble across Meta Alloy - a completely unique and previously unseen, undoubtedly alien, material that ordinarily we would be extremely cautious about spreading everywhere until we knew exactly what it was. We thought it was inert. Well, perhaps it's not - perhaps it's a catalyst for something else.

Many people thought MA was too convenient, but dismissed it as 4th wall paranoia, or even as lazy design on the part of FD, well, perhaps - just perhaps - it was all deliberate. And all along, we've been sowing the seeds of our own destruction even when we thought we were being cautious, because all along we were actually being lead down a Thargoid garden path, at the end of which is giant can of insectoid death just waiting for us to open it.
 
Last edited:
There has always been indications of two groups. T. James description of Oresrians and Klaxians is the most concrete.

We have no idea If they are separate species. It could be like feds and Imps or like Guardians and exiled Guardians.

They could be flying the same ships for all we know.

We just need to consider all possibilites when interpreting their actions.

Yes, I remember the old lore about the two sub/species at war, and apparently DrewW talked in a livestream about 2 alien factions (never listened to it), so I've been hypothesising with this in mind for a long time so when LZ commented after the Lavecon Q&A I thought it had been confirmed. DrewW may in fact have been talking about the old Elite lore (or his non-canon Oolite series). I do wish FD had never retconned the lore, I never know what is canon now!
 
Last edited:
With all this talk about Oresrians and Klaxians I had to look it up.

Here's the eBook by Wagar; http://www.drewwagar.com/downloads/books/oolite/Finis.pdf

It looks as if it's a fan-fiction for a game called Oolite; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oolite_(video_game)

"Oolite is a free and open source 3D space trading and combat simulator in the spirit of Elite".

Considering Oresrians and Klaxians are from fan-fiction based on the Oolite game (which isn't Elite nor has anything to do with Frontier), why are people assuming Wagar's novel has anything to do with the actual lore behind the real Elite: Dangerous franchise?

Edit; here we go, in one of the first pages: "A novella based on the space trading game Oolite." So... yeah... they (Oresrians and Klaxians) aren't canon in Frontier's Elite universe... I take it no one at Frontier has backed up anything from this story to support anything written in it?

Okay, seems to be that way back in 2013, the first post ever mentioning "Oresrians" was this: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...ra-Thargoids-!!!?p=88981&viewfull=1#post88981

Since then, it seems "Oresrians and Klaxians" have polluted the mix of opinion (okay, it basically looks like "fake news"). Aliens were briefly described in "The Dark Wheel" by the looks of it, but there was never any mention of such "Oresrians and Klaxians" - correct me if I am wrong with sources.

Seems to be that players have unwittingly followed a hare down a rabbit hole with talk of "Oresrians and Klaxians" that was entirely the imagination of Wagar in a fan-fiction book series, based on Oolite and lightly based on "The Dark Wheel".

T.James has one book for sale: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Darkness-Elite-Dangerous-James/dp/1500950718

But as of yet I cannot find any references for him mentioning Oresrians and Klaxians - did the author know these creations were based on fan-fiction from a universe that isn't the Elite franchise? Sources from his book would be most welcome because I'm not paying £5 for an eBook just to control+f to find out.

No, don't go blaming DreW for it. The original mention of Thargoids and Oresrians was in chapter 6 of Elite: The Dark Wheel by Robert Holdstock.
 
There appears to be some confusion with regards to Thargoids now about what is canon and what isn't. It may help to verify which sources can and can't be taken as fact. In the Lavecon video Sandro does not mention two different species, but he does state that the Thargoids that we have now are the same Thargoids as in the original 1984 game. That could mean that the novella Elite: The Dark Wheel by Robert Holdstock (which was bundled with the game) is canon; if so, this has very interesting implications.

That story briefly mentions the Oresrians, but it is the information about the Thargoids that is most interesting. The immature form, known as Tharglets, is described as parasitic. It lives inside a host, and:

The Dark Wheel said:
The central black body was shiny, and from it peered a number of bloated, faceted eyes. Two long, bristly tendrils stretched into the Mymurth's brains from each of these hideous parasites.

The tendrils reaching into the host's brain suggests that they may be able to influence or even control the host.

They could be anywhere. They could be anyone. They could be pulling all the strings, see the silly humans dance!
 
Last edited:
Yeah it wasn't in the video - it was a mental leap (justified also by previous lore) that if we have one alien that we are apparently told is 'so alien in every way' (or words to that effect from DBOBE and the Spaceloach), and now we know that UAs are Thargoid, then it threw up an immediate possibility to me that they're made by an alien which is trying to appeal to humanity (because of the morse).

Outside of some *really* devious masterplan to seduce us with UAs in order get us to seed our own destruction (MAs being an immediate 'cure' - but possibly not), it seemed to me we have an alien that's almost desperate to communicate, or at least is happy with us knowing, and even understanding, parts of what they're up to.

That doesn't seem like the actions of an ultra-alien species which can lay waste to a couple of Capships.

Hypothesis around the UA 'Masterplan'/MA Cure 'doubts'

Like many things, now, after so many people's comments over the years, this isn't an entirely original idea

Sandro's other comments from one or two E3 interviews hinted at an element of social engineering with UAs and MAs - something that's been lurking away certainly at the back of my mind for a while.

So perhaps UAs are designed to be enticing to us (inside 4th wall: designed by Thargs) specifically to encourage us to spread them.

This would mean that station failures were not accidental - but an intentional function of the UAs.

We then rush to ship mills of tonnes of meta alloy to fix them, and even make cargo racks out of the stuff, because it appears to stop the UA 'self-repair' mechanism, according to Palin.

We took that to mean MAs were a 'cure', or a defence against UA damage. And we felt good.

But what if the reality is something significantly more sinister? A baby cries when it's hungry, and causes havoc until it is fed. What if this 'self-repair mechanism' is something more significant? We never really understood exactly what the UA was repairing itself against - just dismissed it as irrelevant.

Well - what if Meta Alloy doesn't protect against UA damage - it actually satiates the UA. So what does a UA do when it's satiated? Grow, perhaps?

Or perhaps the UA damage was just another trick: to get us to stumble across Meta Alloy - a completely unique and previously unseen, undoubtedly alien, material that ordinarily we would be extremely cautious about spreading everywhere until we knew exactly what it was. We thought it was inert. Well, perhaps it's not - perhaps it's a catalyst for something else.

Many people thought MA was too convenient, but dismissed it as 4th wall paranoia, or even as lazy design on the part of FD, well, perhaps - just perhaps - it was all deliberate. And all along, we've been sowing the seeds of our own destruction even when we thought we were being cautious, because all along we were actually being lead down a Thargoid garden path, at the end of which is giant can of insectoid death just waiting for us to open it.

I like the idea of two opposed groups of Thargoids, Oresrians and Klaxians, but since there is no FD official confirmation and in view of all the retconn FD have done I think we have to view this as pure speculation at this point in time unless we get some hard confirmation. Pity, it seemed to be starting to make possible sense of some of the UA/UP mysteries.
 
There appears to be some confusion with regards to Thargoids now about what is canon and what isn't. It may help to verify which sources can and can't be taken as fact. In the Lavecon video Sandro does not mention two different species, but he does state that the Thargoids that we have now are the same Thargoids as in the original 1984 game. That could mean that the novella Elite: The Dark Wheel by Robert Holdstock (which was bundled with the game) is canon; if so, this has very interesting implications.

That story briefly mentions the Oresrians, but it is the information about the Thargoids that is most interesting. The immature form, known as Tharglets, is described as parasitic. It lives inside a host, and:



The tendrils reaching into the host's brain suggests that they may be able to influence or even control the host.

They could be anywhere. They could be anyone. They could be pulling all the strings, see the silly humans dance!

This is like the season finale of the first season of TNG all over again...
 
There appears to be some confusion with regards to Thargoids now about what is canon and what isn't. It may help to verify which sources can and can't be taken as fact. In the Lavecon video Sandro does not mention two different species, but he does state that the Thargoids that we have now are the same Thargoids as in the original 1984 game. That could mean that the novella Elite: The Dark Wheel by Robert Holdstock (which was bundled with the game) is canon; if so, this has very interesting implications.

That story briefly mentions the Oresrians, but it is the information about the Thargoids that is most interesting. The immature form, known as Tharglets, is described as parasitic. It lives inside a host, and:



The tendrils reaching into the host's brain suggests that they may be able to influence or even control the host.

They could be anywhere. They could be anyone. They could be pulling all the strings, see the silly humans dance!

That could make sense of Ricardo Bentonio's claim (28Jan3303) that Aliens Walk Among Us "I have been reliably informed that the Thargoids have been exerting direct influence over human society. Everything that is happening is unfolding according to their plan. Soon, it will be too late!”

so Halsey, Jaques etc may be obeying Tharglet control.....

 
Last edited:
Sandro's other comments from one or two E3 interviews hinted at an element of social engineering with UAs and MAs - something that's been lurking away certainly at the back of my mind for a while.

So perhaps UAs are designed to be enticing to us (inside 4th wall: designed by Thargs) specifically to encourage us to spread them

...

But what if the reality is something significantly more sinister?

Sending the detonation codes now, goodbye humanity. PS: It was Jmanis' fault.
 
Last edited:
I like the idea of two opposed groups of Thargoids, Oresrians and Klaxians, but since there is no FD official confirmation and in view of all the retconn FD have done I think we have to view this as pure speculation at this point in time unless we get some hard confirmation. Pity, it seemed to be starting to make possible sense of some of the UA/UP mysteries.

I gotta say, actually, for so long many people thought that FD were just doing a 'Lost' (me included at various points), using the MIUAYGATM* method of storytelling - thus rendering any attempts at extracting anything intelligible absolutely impossible.

The noises we're hearing certainly seem to suggest otherwise, and that the result is something with so many possible explanations and interpretations, whilst having been planned, is quite an achievement. Obviously, it's not to everyone's taste - but I'm loving it.

Sending the detonation codes now, goodbye humanity. PS: It was Jmanis' fault.

:D

We'll have to put him on the team negotiating our surrender.
 
Last edited:
Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom