Has MultiCrew gone the way of the Dodo too?

[Lightspeed]

Maybe because it's a completely tone deaf and fundamentally flawed position to take?

How about this: I'll go make a "lasagna" every day for the next 6 months...but without the meat, no sauce and no pasta. If you and your friends eat that bowl of wet cheese every day, I might expand the next round of lasagna to include some pasta. If you guys eat that every day for a couple of months, I might consider adding meat. 3 months of that daily, and I might add some sauce. Oh and if you and your friends don't eat it all regularly for those 10 months, I'm going to conclude that you guys just don't like lasagna and will stop trying to make it. En we will start this process over again with meatloaf. With no meat. Or maybe I concluded half way through the 10 months of lasagna that it was goood enough because you guys were eating so much of it! Why bother with meat and seasoning? Glad you liked it and get ready for the meatloaf beta!

This is where we are with that comment.

If you don't see how inherently problematic it is to say, "I'm going to serve you guys this half cooked feature and if you don't play it vigorously then we won't make it a fully cooked feature..." and then to assert the conclusion that people must just not want the feature at all... I'm not sure what to say. Multi crew is maybe 1/5th of what people wanted or expected. If it isn't being played it's because it's not good enough yet, not because people don't want the feature. I'd rather have no new feature and a fleshed out base game than big roll-outs like Power Play, CQC and MC sent out to simply die. Give these features the love and depth they deserve and if that takes more time so be it.

Serve a full plate of well-made, 3 layer lasagna is all I ask. And understand that's what the people want to eat. Build it right and with depth and the people will enjoy it.

I don't disagree with the position you take on the MC concept. I don't agree with teleprescence either.

I don't think Sandro's heart was in that one, and he may have been pushed into introducing it (by someone else?) or by circumstances, such as having nothing else ready to release.

But he was being open with us about it, which I find refreshing.

 

[Commander Biscuit]

I hate these analogies too, second worse right after car analogies. Fortunately I've got an amazing Minestrone here, hmmm...

Analogies are fine! think of it like this. Multicrew is like bananas. No wait, lets say kittens. Multicrew is like kittens. Do you want to see a world without kittens? I dont think so.

 

[Heavenly-Hammer]

I don't disagree with the position you take on the MC concept. I don't agree with teleprescence either.

I don't think Sandro's heart was in that one, and he may have been pushed into introducing it (by someone else?) or by circumstances, such as having nothing else ready to release.

But he was being open with us about it, which I find refreshing.

The proof is in the pudding. We haven't seen many features that came out since launch that anyone would say was feature complete. At best minimally serviceable to meet internal deadlines is how it looks from my purview. Look at this thread and all the things people thought it would have or wanted it to have. They aren't odd requests. They are things one would consider expectations. We see these threads for damn near every feature in the game. In the case of MC, here we are with a feature that is really only relevant for combat and not in the full spectrum of ways hoped. Or even a fraction of them.

We're discussing the status of another headline feature that we had high hopes for, so I'm confused as to why you fail to understand how that Sandro comment managed to rub seemingly everyone but YOU the wrong way. But it doesn't matter and I'm definitely not in the mood to entertain your defending them. The only thing that matters is FDev focusing on fleshing out all of these features. ED deserves better than this and the player base expects more. As they should. The game has too much fundamentally going for it.

 

[Lightspeed]

The proof is in the pudding. We haven't seen many features that came out since launch that anyone would say was feature complete. At best minimally serviceable to meet internal deadlines is how it looks from my purview. Look at this thread and all the things people thought it would have or wanted it to have. They aren't odd requests. They are things one would consider expectations. We see these threads for damn near every feature in the game. In the case of MC, here we are with a feature that is really only relevant for combat and not in the full spectrum of ways hoped. Or even a fraction of them.

We're discussing the status of another headline feature that we had high hopes for, so I'm confused as to why you fail to understand how that Sandro comment managed to rub seemingly everyone but YOU the wrong way. But it doesn't matter and I'm definitely not in the mood to entertain your defending them. The only thing that matters is FDev focusing on fleshing out all of these features. ED deserves better than this and the player base expects more. As they should. The game has too much fundamentally going for it.

You ate that lasagne quick enough - now it's pudding !

 

[Lightspeed]

I'm not so sensitive to it, because I don't use it. So I'm standing a distance from it and looking at it with a different perspective to many, I guess. But I think it has been a big mistake to rely on telepresence because of it, and the risk is that this will damage planning for the future.

If you happen across other posts I have made, I believe it can be salvaged, but it will have to be for special events and with "real" not "tele" presence.

 

[dm0815]

[...]

We're discussing the status of another headline feature that we had high hopes for, so I'm confused as to why you fail to understand how that Sandro comment managed to rub seemingly everyone but YOU the wrong way. But it doesn't matter and I'm definitely not in the mood to entertain your defending them. The only thing that matters is FDev focusing on fleshing out all of these features. ED deserves better than this and the player base expects more. As they should. The game has too much fundamentally going for it.

Yeah the minimum viable product approach to new mechanics doesn't work. We aren't in the alpha state of this game anymore, are we?

 

[ExoForce]

CMRD (EDIT) accepted me a SLF pilot and tutored me. It was fantastic expirience! Sometimes I join explorers for a small chat. This is fine feature. Guess with friends even more. Now, I am waiting wing multicrew all around massive attack on heavy defense base/cities.

 

[askavir]

Multicrew was added far too soon. There is still not remotely enough interesting things to do on a single ship to support multicrew. At this point, FD would have fared better adding more mechanics/dynamics for wings, supporting group activities, allowing wing members to share the same objectives, sharing individual profits among all wing members to enable cooperative play.

On the other hand, MC was on the announced roadmap for season 2, so they had to do it.

 

[Strangepork]

I've been trying to embrace this new feature. Equipped my boat for a small gunner role, and opened a seat. After hours of gameplay I think 2 commanders have joined my ship only to exit again shortly after without any kind of comms.

And if I look to see if others have a MultiCrew opening on their ship? Not a single one.

Has MultiCrew already gone the way of the Dodo, much like CQC and PowerPlay?

Well yes, but they will make it better if we use it!

 

[Toumal]

Space Nerds In Space, Pulsar, Artemis... all these games show what you can do with multicrew. Particularly Space Nerds In Space, which despite the silly name actually has the most in-depth systems for crewmembers to play with. Science station alone can do a lot with the scanner, changing things like scanner arc vs. range, classifying faraway targets, etc.
In SNIS, the engineer can even control a small repair droid on a 2d map and have it replace broken parts inside the ship systems.

Elite Dangerous really begs for a dedicated science position which could operate planetary surface scanners that generate high detail POI maps of planets - so using MC would mean no more hopping between random POIs on the surface, instead you could just go to exactly the POI that interests you and which you discovered from orbit.

There's so much cool stuff FD could do. And frankly, anything that expands the range of activities is welcome.

That "steep learning curve"? That's actually quality playtime right there. The deeper you go with these systems, the longer this game will have a healthy player community. It's not the only thing this game needs.... but it's a big part I think.

 

[nosscar]

Multi crew needed AI added from the start, as it is the only way players on there own can use it.
That is defo the one thing that would bring me back to the game, AI gunners, and esp AI pilot to take control and take the tedium out of hyperspace jumping to get where i want to be. An on board AI engineer too, to balance power and repairs.

Ok some would say it makes the game too automated, but for those that don't want the tedious tasks, be great, and there would be an option not to employ AI for the rest.

Coupled with a few voice packs, i could really be the captain giving my orders at last.

 

[Artean]

One simple thing; being able to share mission rewards, would greatly enhance both MC and Wings and make them a much more attractive proposition for many players. That and being able to deploy up to 2 SRV's whilst MC'd.

Yes, this and PP rewards as well would seriously increase my time in MC.

 

[CMDR M Kozak]

2. Space legs. It speaks for itself. And make a meeting place for commanders to check each other out and new clothes and skins which can be bought from the frontier store or won as prices. I cant emphasis how much space legs will mean for this game. It will bring back many of the veterans.

I seriously think you are wrong on that one. Space legs sound fun, but I cant see it being even remotely useful without rich gameplay (not shooting only). Take a look at the SRV... its fun, sure... but doesn't bring anything to the game. Its a tool you use to pick up canisters on the planets for missions and to scout Power Generators for black ops missions where you then shoot the generator from the ship.
Even WITH gameplay I dont really want spacelegs. I bought a spaceship game - not a walking simulator.

4. Introduce base building: Even prefabricated bases on the store will sell good. And use whatever you find in the universe to build your base or landing platforms. Give clans or groups the ability to create their own empire.

Again I dont see this being any benefit. Answer a few questions:
- what will happen to the structures when you log out?
- can I steal or destroy it while you sleep?
- what about upkeep?

Empire building have always turned games into grindfests. It becomes work. As a retired EVE player I speak from experience.

 

[Saxon Kili]

Just reaffirms my belief that they should've started with NPC crew that everyone could benefit from, everyone could have fun with, everyone could feel like they could invest time in their crew.

It could've been so much more, now with FD and their "if no one uses it then we won't touch it" mentality it means it's never going to get looked into again.

In the previous elite games you needed many crew for a single ship. Even if I could had a couple of bodies on the ship that I could level up to Elite, even if they only increased my scan range by 1% I'd be happier than I am now.

This is the game of missed opportunities, I really hope they pull it together with the "Core Fixes" coming after 2.4

NPC crew would be cool. NPC wings would be cool.

 

[Ziljan]

Multicrew is a blast but it needs to be expanded to be more competitive or complementary with Wings and to include more rolls for humans and NPCs. Otherwise it will continue to be neglected.

 

[Franc Kaos]

That would be Starflight on the C64:

http://www.gamebase64.com/oldsite/gameofweek/adv-c/starflight/Starflight.gif

I played a ton of Starflight back in the day....

Oh man, that my first PC game on my first PC, an 8088 in glorious puke inducing CGA and varied beepings - still one of my fondest memories. I was Captain Kirk exploring the universe...

Multipew? just play Star Trek: Bridge Commander for that. Fdevs implementation isn't even a shadow of what they planned, CQC just needs integrating into the main game, Powerplay... was it Horizons only? would explain why it's not part of the main gameplay loop, could have fed so perfectly into the alien incursion story and BGS.

EDIT: Crew, not Commander (totally different game).

 

[Toumal]

Again I dont see this being any benefit. Answer a few questions:
- what will happen to the structures when you log out?
- can I steal or destroy it while you sleep?
- what about upkeep?

Empire building have always turned games into grindfests. It becomes work. As a retired EVE player I speak from experience.

To answer your questions:

1) They stay there and spawn into every instance at that location
2) it gets stolen or destroyed, and when I log back in it's gone. It should be up to me to pick a remote spot and/or put up defenses.
3) What about it? We have plenty of space billionaires, so what's the problem? Plus the idea of building is to have a means of passively mining for example. So that would generate credits, not use them up constantly. But even with upkeep, I see no issue.

Small outposts and mining installations, as well as space outposts and bases would be a huge motivator to keep playing for me and a lot of other players. It would, finally, be a goal to work towards, and keeping such a place running would be a goal too.

You call it grind, I call it metagame

 

[starkline59]

I'm not sure if Multi-Crew (Combat) is dead, but I can say for sure that in exploration it's unusable. As an explorer who doesn't carry heat sinks, I almost always had my ship's seats open for others. It was a fun way to pass the time and interact with other players. It wasn't perfect, but pre 2.3.10 people could join my ship and stay connected (usually) for a few hours before the inevitable bug caused a disconnect. Following the patch, it's a small miracle if anyone can connect to my ship and remain connected for more than ONE hyperspace jump.

If this is the way multi-crew is working for other roles, then yes, I think the concept will languish into oblivion and get left in the dust of retreat.

 

[Lobstris]

Given that quite a few of the updates, even after delays to 'ensure high quality', have arrived as not up to the standard, or not containing the content, people were expecting, I suspect that the root cause always comes down to 'can we get this to reliably work within the multiplayer architecture'? Worst case? Everything has to be 'shallow', as nothing deep or complex can ever work reliably (and even simple things are insanely complex under the hood?).

 

[[VR] Enexemander]

Multi crew needed AI added from the start, as it is the only way players on there own can use it.
That is defo the one thing that would bring me back to the game, AI gunners, and esp AI pilot to take control and take the tedium out of hyperspace jumping to get where i want to be. An on board AI engineer too, to balance power and repairs.

Ok some would say it makes the game too automated, but for those that don't want the tedious tasks, be great, and there would be an option not to employ AI for the rest.

Coupled with a few voice packs, i could really be the captain giving my orders at last.

... What exactly would be the difference betwen an ai gunner and regular turrets?

Anywho, Frontier needs to add multiplayer objectives and missions. We should at the least be able to share missions in a wing or multicrew.