Thank you, Sandro, this all sounds really promising. Much appreciated, o7
Karma vs PvP Piracy
- Thread starter Riverside
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Thank you, Sandro, this all sounds really promising. Much appreciated, o7
Powderpanic
Banned
Then these people that do not want to be considered content are in the wrong game or the wrong mode?
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
The wrong mode - possibly / probably. The wrong game - not at all, in my opinion, as Frontier consciously designed the game to permit each player to play the game without being bothered by the unwanted attentions of others as and when they so choose....
Sandro, just a comment. I am very much looking forward to all the revisions/improvements you guys will eventually bring to ED in season 3 (or whatever). One thing concerns me though: if you will concentrate on careers, one by one, this might create an inflation of players choosing that specific career right after the update has been released. So, for example, if patch 3.1 is called "Pirates" in the months between 3.1 and 3.2 "Smugglers" everyone will want to play as a pirate, inflating (so to speak) the pirate market.
For this reason, I were you, I would consider adding content across the board little by little, rather than doing one in-depth career at a time (also to please people that, no matter how much one specific career could be revamped, would never want to do that particular activity anyway). But again, I am not you, so I'm just throwing this out there.
I see no conflict with a Karma system and PvP piracy. A pirate should not be destroying ships and it seems that is what matters here.
Taking out drives is easy enough, there is never a reason to kill.
I've heard the argument that you have to destroy players when they attempt to run "so they will take your demands seriously" but to me that is an excuse to murder and pushes traders out of open.
Its about time there was a much clearer differentiation between High security and Anarchy systems and this could bring about that change \o/
Taking out drives is easy enough, there is never a reason to kill.
I've heard the argument that you have to destroy players when they attempt to run "so they will take your demands seriously" but to me that is an excuse to murder and pushes traders out of open.
Its about time there was a much clearer differentiation between High security and Anarchy systems and this could bring about that change \o/
Do you have a better idea maybe? What other leverage do you think pirates should use if not the threat of violence to extort cargo from an unwilling victim?
Rethorical question of course, I don't expect SubSynk to post a serious answer that isn't a variation of "don't pirate" or "shoot the drives"
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Only if they fly directly away from you while trying to escape, which is usually the worst way to escape, especially if your ship isn't faster than what's chasing you.
It's essentially impossible to stop someone who adamantly resists a piracy attempt without destroying them.
Even if you can get the cargo out of their ship, if they don't think you are willing to destroy them, there would be no incentive for them to let you scoop the cargo.
Well, allowing illegal destruction to go on in anarchy, while sounding appealing IMHO will just be needlessly counter productive, and illogical.
If we consider one of the main reasons for the C&P (karma) mechanic is to rein in habitual illegal destruction, and then consider how much of this takes place in anarchy systems - go and "enjoy" the Thargoid bases in OPEN - then what will be achieved by not employing the same mechanics in anarchy systems? It will give the desired outcome of giving illegal destruction some meaning and rein in habitual ganking.
I understand from a game lore point of view anarchy systems are "dangerous", and without any security to come to your aid, they will be. But too leave them as the goto-grief locations seems needless and pointless.
Yes I think the powerplay mechanic as a whole should be exempt from any negative karmic effects. It makes sense as most of the special access rewards for being a part of powerplay is already firmly centered on PVP. Imperial hammer, Prismatic Shields, and FSD interrupting missiles.
There however should be one tiny exemption to that. Ship size/class. If you are running around blowing up haulers in a corvette outside of either sides power play region, then perhaps something may need to be looked at. But for the most part Powerplay should be the go to PVP mechanic.
So ask nicely and if they decline you are stuffed and can not use deadly force.... Good job...
Please. I know you want to make elite happyfunland... But pirates are pirates. You comply.. You live... You defy.. You die... I dont care what "you class" pirates as....
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Not the same as "murderers", apparently.
Pirates serial killers degenerates murderers. What is it you want to play? You want to be a pirate or do you want to kill people? Its already an overly violent interaction due to detaining someone against their will. Perhaps you would like a mechanic to skin the people who dont want to give you their lawfully purchased/traded goods?
A murderous Pirate is a poor pirate, a.k.a. not a pirate. They are murderers. This new karma system will make sure that pirates can be separated from the murderers. So if your default choice is go kill someone who doesnt give you what you want, then you are a killer. Plain and simple. So dont try and hide behind the banner of being a Pirate, because from your statement, "you defy you die" it means you are clearly just a cowardly killer of newbs and the defenseless.
Your chosen black and white boring playstyle are the reason a Karma system is needed in the first place.
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Sounds like FD are going in a good direction and finally giving C&P a needed overhaul. That said, some of the most fun I've had has been in "blockade running" through wings of hostile commanders. That's the white knuckle stuff (and part of the advertisement for ED). Getting rid of the suicidewinder exploit is excellent. Discouraging seal clubbing in starter systems is also excellent. The idea of the Elite NPC bounty hunters coming after a notorious commander? Very cool.
Making it safe for a commander in a cutter to traverse carelessly through open? No, that's not so cool. For that you have Möbius etc.
this is a game universe where a parking infraction earns you a death penalty. Killing another commander is not so toxic under the proposed changes because the killer won't be able to avoid the consequences of the bounty and will have to wait out the week for it to go dormant or pay the full price, while being hunted by NPCs that get nastier and nastier as the bounty goes up (perhaps players who themselves have bounties that are dormant or otherwise should not be allowed to collect on Pilots Federation bounties) is enough. The Wild West style of the game will lose its edge too far to the other side if it goes farther than that.
Outside of powerplay there are other reasons to be bad so the consequences should be well in game. Rebuy should never be more than the insurance on the ship that committed the crime. That's just swinging the pendulum too far in the other direction. Keep the risk alive. Having murderes in game is fine. The trouble is right now there are no consequences.
Making it safe for a commander in a cutter to traverse carelessly through open? No, that's not so cool. For that you have Möbius etc.
this is a game universe where a parking infraction earns you a death penalty. Killing another commander is not so toxic under the proposed changes because the killer won't be able to avoid the consequences of the bounty and will have to wait out the week for it to go dormant or pay the full price, while being hunted by NPCs that get nastier and nastier as the bounty goes up (perhaps players who themselves have bounties that are dormant or otherwise should not be allowed to collect on Pilots Federation bounties) is enough. The Wild West style of the game will lose its edge too far to the other side if it goes farther than that.
Outside of powerplay there are other reasons to be bad so the consequences should be well in game. Rebuy should never be more than the insurance on the ship that committed the crime. That's just swinging the pendulum too far in the other direction. Keep the risk alive. Having murderes in game is fine. The trouble is right now there are no consequences.
I know, it's like this genius somehow forgets that that's what even the NPC's do... the same NPC's that Fdev created, (the creators of this magical karma system that will make elite as dangerous as a bag o kittens)... don't hand over cargo, get murdered, universal pirate behaviour.
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You paint a good picture, and as you say right now there is not enough consequence but it would be easy to go too far (or be unable to not go too far as I implied earlier) the other way.
I think it's worth repeating that this 'karma system' will tackle CLogging too, there's toxic stuff at both ends of the spectrum.
To add to that, and Sandros statement, I also like the potential for a notorious killer to lose docking rights in certain stations/systems. All of these are understandable, in game mechanics. Where I get a little worried is the talk of increasing insurance costs. It's one thing to stop people from sidestepping their repercussions through an obvious exploit like the suicidewinder. It's quite another to go beyond the shutting down of exploits and into the rout of punishments catering to commanders who want all of the Open and none of the risk.
Goose4291
Banned
Which is all well and good, but you need to give pirates suitable tools to extract cargo if thats the case, because in the case if lucrative large scale robberies, the threat of violence is all the pirate has on their side. If the other side know they cant follow through for karma sysyen based reasons, theyll LOL and thrust away.
Hatchbreaker limpets work pretty well, no? I managed to forcibly extract some cargo at a previous CG.
Harch breakers have been dumbed down IMHO. They've reduce piracy to point and click? Why not at least require a modicum of depth such as having to reduce the targets shields down to 1 bar before you can target?
Also they need to be scaled for the desired job/purpose. With your Anaconda with X hundred tons of cargo space, go and hatch breaker a full Hauler, and now a full T9. How much cargo can you get out of that T9? And now comes the 30km long trail of cargo you can't even possibly collect easily...
Ima ll for added depth. I'm also a fan of synthesis (not the in game recharge potions), so if there is a manifest scanner it should communicate with the limpets for default of highest value cargo.
I like the idea that shields have to be lowered for it to function, though that would make it impossible to pirate certain ships.