PvE player activity dvarves PvP player activity

[xDreadnoughtx]

I have been hanging my hat at Founders World for a while now, and it can be quite crowded at times in Mobius. And I admit that I DO like seeing the various ships coming and going. Even saying 'hello' to folks once in a while (when I notice I'm being hailed).

BUT...I've gotten the impression from various threads here that I do not want to venture there while in Open as that is just an invitation to get blown to bits. None of my ships have any chance against a fully engineered PvP ship, and having to run out the back door to escape 'being blown to bits' is just not what I want to do while I'm playing ED.

The sweeping way open is represented makes me shake my head in disbelief. It's some sort of mass delusion.

"Hey Joe, I heard someone got murdered down stabby towers way."

"Yeah, that's what Billy heard from his bro Todd. Apparently totally unprovoked. The stiffs knife was only half the size of the perps too."

"Well, I'm deffo going solo then."

"Remind me where you hang out again, Leafy Lane Chocolate boxshire? Yeah, better safe than sorry eh!"

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

Your definition of Open is very narrow then. Especially since the majority of players isn't interested in PvP at all, despite Open being the most popular game mode. If you ask for source, we had poll after poll about this and they all showed the same results. The forum isn't the ideal sample so I also listened to the Devs when they talked about it in a livestream. PvP is a niche activity and open is the most popular mode. I am not saying you are doing something wrong, play the game as you like, I am happy for you if you have fun. But don't expect others to do the same.


What misinformation?

i think he means the numbers of threads people make when they have been ganked by overwhelming force/ramming which they had no escape or way to avoid destruction, plus cargo loss. it does give the impression sometimes there is a ganker waiting outside most big stations, if not all the outposts everywhere.

 

[Pyrobee]

i imagine cqc or arena or w/e its currently named was an attempt to provide PvPers someplace to gank without annoying players who were playing elite rather than seeing it as someone else said -unreal tournament in space. but it doesnt seem to appeal to gankers, maybe because of the equal odds and chance of destruction.

CQC was a stand alone game that could be purchased cheaply and was used as a bit of advertising for the game and FDev were kinda hoping it may have taken off as an esport.

i have to be lucky every time i log in if im not docked, and every time im leaving dock, every jump, and every time i am en route to docking. its too many hours and hours of work to recover rebuys for me, whereas an assailant usually is fully covered for hundreds or thousands of rebuys even in their biggest ship - which incidentally i have no ship capable of resisting long enough to escape by wake due to engineers.

You really don't have to be lucky, just aware of your surroundings. Nobody can interdict you if you don't even let them get behind you.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

Is it really greifing when most who play in open are happy with the risks? It seems that it is the ppl who don't play in open are the ones who complain about it the most. Karma system may help with the seal clubbing but it's not going to prevent people taking out trade cutters and the C&P system will just encourage ppl to get massive bounties on themselves with the PF.

actually i find its solo players like me complain about the open players who complain open is too empty and maybe solo and PG should be done away with so everyone has to play in open and thus open wont feel so empty... for whatever reason the aforementioned open players decide open is too empty. some have secret motives. some dont. some just havent thought through past 'i wish more commanders play open its very lonely out here.'

 

[wrmiller]

The sweeping way open is represented makes me shake my head in disbelief. It's some sort of mass delusion.

"Hey Joe, I heard someone got murdered down stabby towers way."

"Yeah, that's what Billy heard from his bro Todd. Apparently totally unprovoked. The stiffs knife was only half the size of the perps too."

"Well, I'm deffo going solo then."

"Remind me where you hang out again, Leafy Lane Chocolate boxshire? Yeah, better safe than sorry eh!"

I can only go by what I read here. Are you saying that it's not true (with regard to Founders World)? I've read where others would disagree with that, but again, it is just what I've read here.

At the end of the day, I guess I'm just one of those folks who don't need Open to enjoy this game, so there really isn't any incentive for me to do so.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

CQC was a stand alone game that could be purchased cheaply and was used as a bit of advertising for the game and FDev were kinda hoping it may have taken off as an esport.

You really don't have to be lucky, just aware of your surroundings. Nobody can interdict you if you don't even let them get behind you.

if they are waiting outside the station interdiction escape game isnt going to help when they ram me by boostng into me in the slot. and since to avoid that i will go to solo mode... might as well stay there. personally if the people in open now were happy we would not be discussing this. but some of them dont seem to be. if they were all happy they would not even think about complaining about solo mode and PG and open not having many players in most places. but they do and i struggle to understand why if they are happy with open as it is.

also i dont need to see other commanders to enjoy the game. unless we can find the solution to ganking so it never can happen to me, that i never need to deal with another player other than maybe a chat on local and exchange info about pirate activity in the system or w/e then i dont need to risk it. would be nice sometimes, especially after a long exploring trip, to come back and be able to interact in chat with someone which npcs cannot do beyond scanning and saying 'your clean move along' or other scripted responses. but what if is always in my mind. what if they are a ganker? i get ganked before i get to the dock all the data is gone. i made 140million after nearly a year exploring (on and off) in deep space. i cant afford to lose 6 months of my real life and 140 million credits. if the data wasnt lost it would be better, but not acceptable. even 1.5 million rebuy is a hefty dent if you dont have billions to spare.

but we are veering off here. the question is whether there was more PvE activity than PvP in open. i think there is - mainly because those who want just PvP have to hang around CG and other high traffic areas, those who dont mind PvP but arent playing for that do the CG in open, and those who prefer open but prefer PvE dont go to places like CG or founders world if they have the access. or are in PG or solo.

i am curious if the player numbers ever got large enough in open so that wherever you go in the bubble you would likely see at least one commander - would the proportion of PvP vs PvE play rise?

 

[DukeIronHand]

Our definitions of Open PvP must be different. Any interaction with another player is PvP even if you are just escaping. It is easy to avoid if you build your ship correctly but sadly most players want more cr per hour instead of building their ships to keep the cr. The whole point of Open (for me) is the small chance of someone actually able to destroy me.
I don't know if they still operate but I do know that there was a group using sidewinders for PvP - low rebuy and a fun ship to fly. I still don't know why there is so much crying about the negative areas of PvP but some aren't willing to try something like that and then comes on the forums to spew misinformation.

Misinformation? Bad information? Lies? Gossip? Rumors? Whatever?
Who cares? I guess Cmdr's have voted how they want to play but a certain small percentage of the base here cannot seem to accept the fact that some don't wish to be their play things and game content.

Its not the folks in Solo or PG's coming to the forums here and, almost pathetically, begging for the PvP'ers to switch modes are they? How long have you been trying? And despite the mantra of "Open is great" I must presume you have had few takers as the Open crowd is still begging and still trying.

For the "good of the game" right? Certainly not the desire for your own personal stimulation in a mode full of cheap and easy targets. Your a good man.

 

[Mohrgan]

I have a fairly tough skin. I've been associated with PvP groups in various games over the years. So, I'm not a shrinking violet, but I avoid open like the plague. Players can moan about it all they like, open is what it is. No protestations can change it. It is the mode set aside for anything-goes. I don;t care for that. I would have open survive for those that do enjoy that environment, though.

The best thing that could happen is that players just stop caring how others play. Stop caring if open has a healthy population. Stop caring that others are playing in solo, or PG's. Just care about what you, as an individual, want from your time in game. If those wants included others to shoot at, you have to accept that only those that are willing to be shot at are available to you. Once, we as a community, can stop measuring each other against our own personal gamer ethics/wants, these issues will fall away, as they should.

 

[Pyrobee]

if they are waiting outside the station interdiction escape game isnt going to help when they ram me by boostng into me in the slot. and since to avoid that i will go to solo mode... might as well stay there. personally if the people in open now were happy we would not be discussing this. but some of them dont seem to be. if they were all happy they would not even think about complaining about solo mode and PG and open not having many players in most places. but they do and i struggle to understand why if they are happy with open as it is.

All you have to do to avoid that is to not speed when you are docking. Traffic control even tells you to slow down if you are going to fast.
Most of the people complaining about open don't play there and just spread fantasy horror stories about it because they want it to be PvE. I think there should be a PvE mode as the same amount of ppl will still play in open and the same preportion will still play PvE/sole that currently do.
Reality of open is that most of it is like playing in solo, occaisionally you'll run into another CMDR you may have a chat or they may sail on by. We all know where the naughtiness is going on, you see alot of CMDRs saying they don't want to be somebody elses content, I'm happy to be sombody elses as that makes them mine as well.

 

[Mohrgan]

All you have to do to avoid that is to not speed when you are docking. Traffic control even tells you to slow down if you are going to fast.
Most of the people complaining about open don't play there and just spread fantasy horror stories about it because they want it to be PvE. I think there should be a PvE mode as the same amount of ppl will still play in open and the same preportion will still play PvE/sole that currently do.
Reality of open is that most of it is like playing in solo, occaisionally you'll run into another CMDR you may have a chat or they may sail on by. We all know where the naughtiness is going on, you see alot of CMDRs saying they don't want to be somebody elses content, I'm happy to be sombody elses as that makes them mine as well.

Most of the players complaining are complaining about when they did play in open. Not that they make up stories, but that they share stories. It seems to me that those complaining about unwanted attention are more believable than those saying 'open is fine'.

If the only thing I miss from Elite, while not playing in open, is the chance I may get attacked by a PC, why use that mode when I don't want to be attacked by PC's? Your personal gamer ethics hold no sway over me, or anyone else. What you find acceptable and/or enjoyable has absolutely no merit, except for personal interest. Once we just let people do their things, everyone will be happy.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

All you have to do to avoid that is to not speed when you are docking. Traffic control even tells you to slow down if you are going to fast.
Most of the people complaining about open don't play there and just spread fantasy horror stories about it because they want it to be PvE. I think there should be a PvE mode as the same amount of ppl will still play in open and the same preportion will still play PvE/sole that currently do.
Reality of open is that most of it is like playing in solo, occaisionally you'll run into another CMDR you may have a chat or they may sail on by. We all know where the naughtiness is going on, you see alot of CMDRs saying they don't want to be somebody elses content, I'm happy to be sombody elses as that makes them mine as well.

hypothetical situation. anaconda is waiting outside station with cmdr ganks4lulz in. maybe hes waiting for an npc to dock. i launch i got 5 mins to leave. im at 99 and thus not speeding. suddenlt cmdr ganks4lulz boosts in through the slot, i get smeared in my FAS or cobra or asp. hes inside the station legally having asked permission. he tells me in local gotcha suker lol go git gud hehehe and is in chat on skype or voice with his pals saying what a dumbass wasnt that funny lol.

how was i at fault? they waited for me to be in the slot. whether i was speeding or not is irrelevant but in fact i wasnt? im looking at rebuy, and loss of cargo (and any data i hadnt sold while docked which i cant go to the market and rebuy incidentallu). im not sure if they even get fined. and i got ganked and dont feel like playing any more at least for a week because its vcost me more than 1 rebuy out of 60 million and thats going to take me several hours to earn because i never know about exploits to easy make cr - until after they get fixed anyway. so it increases my grind just to get back to where i was before the attack.

i agree with you about open i really do, and i would love a PvE mode that could solve collision ganking - an IFF forced system can prevent weapons fire but how do you prevent ramming? have an automatic avoidance system maybe - but we all know docking computers atm are sometimes ramming you into the station underneath the slot not through it and what if the avoidance system does that after an update?

open isnt anywhere close to being filled with gankers but they are like major incidents - and it always gets raged about here then we have these threads turn into solo v open and hotel california-ised.

 

[verminstar]

The sweeping way open is represented makes me shake my head in disbelief. It's some sort of mass delusion.

"Hey Joe, I heard someone got murdered down stabby towers way."

"Yeah, that's what Billy heard from his bro Todd. Apparently totally unprovoked. The stiffs knife was only half the size of the perps too."

"Well, I'm deffo going solo then."

"Remind me where you hang out again, Leafy Lane Chocolate boxshire? Yeah, better safe than sorry eh!"

Is it still a delusion when ye experience it first hand? Not everyone who plays in solo or pg went there because of a second hand story...unless you know something the rest of us dont?

Personally, I have experienced the very worst of the pvp element in open...I dont spread it around but I could tell you if ye so desire. I can assure ye, its not a nice story in any shape or form...the very definition of griefing and intentional trolling attempt...but ye cant troll a troll ^

 

[babelfisch]

i think he means the numbers of threads people make when they have been ganked by overwhelming force/ramming which they had no escape or way to avoid destruction, plus cargo loss. it does give the impression sometimes there is a ganker waiting outside most big stations, if not all the outposts everywhere.

Well if you want to play the game (visit alien ruins, Capital systems, CGs, etc.) it is indeed impossible if you don't want to get killed.

 

[Pyrobee]

hypothetical situation. anaconda is waiting outside station with cmdr ganks4lulz in. maybe hes waiting for an npc to dock. i launch i got 5 mins to leave. im at 99 and thus not speeding. suddenlt cmdr ganks4lulz boosts in through the slot, i get smeared in my FAS or cobra or asp. hes inside the station legally having asked permission. he tells me in local gotcha suker lol go git gud hehehe and is in chat on skype or voice with his pals saying what a dumbass wasnt that funny lol.

how was i at fault? they waited for me to be in the slot. whether i was speeding or not is irrelevant but in fact i wasnt? im looking at rebuy, and loss of cargo (and any data i hadnt sold while docked which i cant go to the market and rebuy incidentallu). im not sure if they even get fined. and i got ganked and dont feel like playing any more at least for a week because its vcost me more than 1 rebuy out of 60 million and thats going to take me several hours to earn because i never know about exploits to easy make cr - until after they get fixed anyway. so it increases my grind just to get back to where i was before the attack.

i agree with you about open i really do, and i would love a PvE mode that could solve collision ganking - an IFF forced system can prevent weapons fire but how do you prevent ramming? have an automatic avoidance system maybe - but we all know docking computers atm are sometimes ramming you into the station underneath the slot not through it and what if the avoidance system does that after an update?

open isnt anywhere close to being filled with gankers but they are like major incidents - and it always gets raged about here then we have these threads turn into solo v open and hotel california-ised.

Where is gamnkz4lulz seated, just waiting right outside the mailbox pointing in. Just boost out you ain't going to get suicidewindered by him and one ram from a connda shouldn't spalt you especially in a FAS. NPC Beluga's are the real threat at stations, they have cost me few cutter rebuys.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

Well if you want to play the game (visit alien ruins, Capital systems, CGs, etc.) it is indeed impossible if you don't want to get killed.

i quite agree. immediately after engineers dropped i would never have risked in SOLO going near a CG evem. it took until commanders dropped before i made a real effort to get back to the bubble from my enforced early exploration. (i left before i was ready to go really because it was impossible to play with the npcs in the bubble but most of my issues are fixed again now). i still wont do a CG requiring delivering materials except in my combat FAS. NPCs are very much a real threat - i still need to run from some ships in solo even in my FAS built for combat with little cargo space. its only a matter of time until i see a rebuy screen from an npc lol. i really mean that. and it will likely happen from my misjudgment - and i can live with that. because i will have had the chance and time to flee the situation but decided i could win most likely. PvNPC lol.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

Where is gamnkz4lulz seated, just waiting right outside the mailbox pointing in. Just boost out you ain't going to get suicidewindered by him and one ram from a connda shouldn't spalt you especially in a FAS. NPC Beluga's are the real threat at stations, they have cost me few cutter rebuys.

good to know i could survive ramming by anaconda in my FAS. neither my asp explorers would though i suspect nor my cobra mkiv or mkiii.

i have seen the belugas they look pretty cool. maybe one day i will be able to get one - just for looking at mainly.

 

[Sandro Sammarco]

Hello Commander yodajedifishmaster!

Just jumping in here, apologies if I have misunderstood something but wanted to say:

If you we're not speeding and gank4lulz boosted in and destroyed you, they should be imminently following you to an inky black grave as docking privilege is revoked and starport guns open up.

Whilst this would be cold comfort to you looking at your re-buy screen, at least gank4lulz would likely be paying out even more for their Anaconda.

Also, if you use a docking computer, you should never be subjected to a crime for collisions (we know the docking computer is not trying to ram).

Finally, if we can get karma working, it should be able, over the course of time, to start identifying and punishing serial rammers.

What we'd rather avoid, if possible, is blanket prevention of nefarious activity in Open. We just want better consequences. Again, apologies if I have missed the gist of this discussion, I’ve only seen this end part of the thread.

 

[Mohrgan]

Where is gamnkz4lulz seated, just waiting right outside the mailbox pointing in. Just boost out you ain't going to get suicidewindered by him and one ram from a connda shouldn't spalt you especially in a FAS. NPC Beluga's are the real threat at stations, they have cost me few cutter rebuys.

So, because he picked the wrong ship combinations the point is moot?

To avoid the HoBo's, you avoid open. The reason? Because it works perfectly. HoBo's can only ply their trade in one mode, open. PG's with a no PvP rule set, offer a one time per account incursion to your group of choice, after that swing, open is the only viable place for them.

I find open to be a self selecting lock-up for all of those who want me as content. All I have to do is use the key. And, I do. Not even the association with a Player Group, who defends against ganking, could get me interested in being in that PvP group mentality again. To me, not clicking open is like personally 'shadow-banning' all of those players in one fell swoop. I don;t need some badge, "I play in open" to feel good about myself. I prove myself in the real world, and entertain myself in the virtual world.

If all I would be doing in open PvP is running away, why waste my time? I'll just leave the field to those who desire it. Simple and easy. Why anyone would want me to return to using open is beyond me. Just let people play the way they want. There is no reason game play must be Peer Reviewed.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

Hello Commander yodajedifishmaster!

Just jumping in here, apologies if I have misunderstood something but wanted to say:

If you we're not speeding and gank4lulz boosted in and destroyed you, they should be imminently following you to an inky black grave as docking privilege is revoked and starport guns open up.

Whilst this would be cold comfort to you looking at your re-buy screen, at least gank4lulz would likely be paying out even more for their Anaconda.

Also, if you use a docking computer, you should never be subjected to a crime for collisions (we know the docking computer is not trying to ram).

Finally, if we can get karma working, it should be able, over the course of time, to start identifying and punishing serial rammers.

What we'd rather avoid, if possible, is blanket prevention of nefarious activity in Open. We just want better consequences. Again, apologies if I have missed the gist of this discussion, I’ve only seen this end part of the thread.

yes i think you understood what i was getting at. im glad to hear ALL of your post including the part about nefarious acticvities. i will be watching from solo to see how it goes and cheering on the effort, because if you can get it all working and balanced and i can get a few hundred million in cr as rebuys i do want to at least try open sometime. and thanks for your post. (i was also trying to avoid the hotel california of the thread since the discussion is very good so far.)

 

[Enderby]

I'm sure a lot of people, like me, just have little interest in playing ED with other real players in the game.

It's often not a for or against pvp issue it's simply that some like to play ED solo because it's solo.