NPC Wingmen (Sandro)

[Ralph Vargr]

I just keep hiring the Hollywood Homely Girls. Someday, they will be useful.

There are roleplay reasons, of course.

Note: I hate the Keelback. The Python needs a fighter bay.

Couldn't be because they get openly mocked for their statements when they do say something, could it?

Could it be that this is a game forum?

 

[shadragon]

Perhaps a better route to go would be this:

Allow us to hire on NPC wingmen (not going to bother trying to find some PC terminology, deal with it), much like we hire crew, based on their ranking fox a fixed weekly salary - say 10k for a Harmless up to 50k for an Expert. This allows us to use them for a one week period. Their ship, its outfitting, and rebuy costs are on them. They don't take orders, they're hirelings, not crew. They just fly with us. They'll defend the wing if the wing is attacked, join in a fight if we start a fight, and take normal wing shares of bounties earned or trade dividends of trade goods sold, just like normal wingmen would.

If their rebuy is greater than half their earnings (aka we keep getting them killed) they may quit the wing ahead of schedule, no refunds on salaries paid.

That's it - nothing more elaborate. Honestly not that different than simply accepting a random wing invite, or joining a random wing - the other people fly whatever they're flying already.

I think the rebuys for both CMDR and NPC ships should be on the player. First, it keeps responsibility firmly on the CMDR's shoulders. If they do anything dumb, it's on their dime.

My original approach was to use existing NPC crew that can't be used regardless of what I'm flying. They are being paid to sit on their butts when I'm in a single seat fighter, for example, so get them out and about and earn their crust. Bounties, bonds can be handled the same way as if they were in SLF. No need to re-invent the wheel. Orders would be issued the same way as well.

I get Sandro's concern about balance. So just make it impossible to join a Wing as long as you have an NPC ship with you. Sorted.

 

[Zannry]

How about I get NPC crews, wingmen, and 2 SLF launch capability in my vette if I play in Solo only? That will still leave Open all screwed up, but hey, it won't be my fault.

Then FD would have to walk back their statements on keeping all modes equal.

FD recently stated they wanted to focus on core game play improvements. Until they fix whats currently broken, adding new content like NPC Wingmates however fun and dream fulfilling it may be will only server to add more problems than it solves.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

I think the rebuys for both CMDR and NPC ships should be on the player. First, it keeps responsibility firmly on the CMDR's shoulders. If they do anything dumb, it's on their dime.

I just checked my book again, and getting blown up is clearly listed under "Something Dumb".

 

[Urbanski101]

No issues from a technical feasibility perspective, but there is a laundry list of features to develop. I can think of the following off the top of my head:

UI functionality to hire and fire
Coding to tie NPCs into the mission system
Mission difficulty changes dependant on whether you have wingmen or not
Additional voice comms
Additional AI functions for NPC behaviour dependant on what you commend them to do - there were dozens of options available in Falcon4
Engage and disengage AI functionality - you wouldn't want the usual forum reaction when your wing-men don't disengage and end up fried would you?
Entity ownership during multiplayer engagements and transferal if needed if there is a single owner in an island that isn't the controlling player
Persistence between star systems, supercruise and islands
Beacon functionality to do with the above
Many other bits I haven't thought of...

Issues would therefore be time and resources being finite and code and assets not magically springing into existence, no matter how hard we wish it to be, or whether someone has done it before. Sandro has given a response that they see issues with game balance and that is also a consideration before you even commit to the the items above. This is why "the other game" is in the state it is in. I think there is a film quote that goes along the lines of "just because we can do something, doesn't mean that we necessarily should"...

OK, that sounds like a realistic list to me....still don't see the problem here.

FDev are game developers, this is what they do, develop the game they made and considering most of the basic AI and functionality is in game I don't see that list as a serious issue, they built this game after all, from the ground up, I'm sure that list you produce is paltry compared to the roadmap for the actual game.

Players want atmospheric landing which is a herculean task, probably the equal of getting ED built in the first place. Space legs, another huge development cycle that will present far more problems than implementing NPC wings. If they struggle to join the dots on things that are 80% of the way there then what chance for these features?

On the scale of game features and the time and resource taken to develop them and the difficulty of implementation (1 being easy, 10 being extremely hard), I'd rate NPC wings as a 2.5/10. Atmospheric landings would be a 10/10, space legs a 9/10

Of course NPC wings would take time and resource and FDev would be the ones to decide whether it's a worthwhile use of either....right now it seems they like the concept but are unsure of how it would impact the wider game, fair enough but this has been talked about since the kickstarter days so I think they've had a fair while to come up with a solution.

 

[The New Number Two]

The Forum: We want NPC wingmen
FDev: Yes, we want it too, but we want to make sure we do it right and don't spoil the rest of the game.
The Forum:WANT IT NOW!!!


And people wonder why FDev don't communicate.

Now? Yesterday. It should have been in the Wings update.

 

[Leo Sagan]

Ah ah dear New Number Two , I was about to frag the noob myself : thanks for sparing me the hassle ;-)

Now? Yesterday. It should have been in the Wings update.

According to DrewCarnegie profile, he joined the forum on 26/01/2016.

Yes, JANUARY 2016. He's a kid ! Let's get easy on him : MERCIFUL m8, MERCIFUL ! Of course he doesn't know ...

NPCs (or to be precise "the lack of" ...) is the 'number one' weakness of this game, and the community expressed that to FD even *BEFORE* 1.0 release (yes, during ORIGINAL beta, and even GAMMA for the guys who remember that time). This is why FD should act NOW.

And if Sandro doesn't agree, well, sorry but Sandro is *wrong*. Yes , I know , it hurts, this guy *can't* be wrong like everyone else, right ?
Well, if he really thinks that E can survive with no AIs, I'm afraid he is.

But TBH I suspect he's not the weak link here and he has to accept a lot of sacrifices he cannot refuse.

My two cents of course....

 

[Ralph Vargr]

Ah ah dear New Number Two , I was about to frag the noob myself : thanks for sparing me the hassle ;-)



According to DrewCarnegie profile, he joined the forum on 26/01/2016.

Yes, JANUARY 2016. He's a kid ! Let's get easy on him : MERCIFUL m8, MERCIFUL ! Of course he doesn't know ...

NPCs (or to be precise "the lack of" ...) is the 'number one' weakness of this game, and the community expressed that to FD even *BEFORE* 1.0 release (yes, during ORIGINAL beta, and even GAMMA for the guys who remember that time). This is why FD should act NOW.

And if Sandro doesn't agree, well, sorry but Sandro is *wrong*. Yes , I know , it hurts, this guy *can't* be wrong like everyone else, right ?
Well, if he really thinks that E can survive with no AIs, I'm afraid he is.

But TBH I suspect he's not the weak link here and he has to accept a lot of sacrifices he cannot refuse.

My two cents of course....

Duly +1'd

 

[DCLXVI your God]

The Forum: We want NPC wingmen
FDev: Yes, we want it too, but we want to make sure we do it right and don't spoil the rest of the game.
The Forum:WANT IT NOW!!!


And people wonder why FDev don't communicate.

Oh dear...
A dullards reflections. [yesnod]

 

[DCLXVI your God]

Ah ah dear New Number Two , I was about to frag the noob myself : thanks for sparing me the hassle ;-)



According to DrewCarnegie profile, he joined the forum on 26/01/2016.

Yes, JANUARY 2016. He's a kid ! Let's get easy on him : MERCIFUL m8, MERCIFUL ! Of course he doesn't know ...

NPCs (or to be precise "the lack of" ...) is the 'number one' weakness of this game, and the community expressed that to FD even *BEFORE* 1.0 release (yes, during ORIGINAL beta, and even GAMMA for the guys who remember that time). This is why FD should act NOW.

And if Sandro doesn't agree, well, sorry but Sandro is *wrong*. Yes , I know , it hurts, this guy *can't* be wrong like everyone else, right ?
Well, if he really thinks that E can survive with no AIs, I'm afraid he is.

But TBH I suspect he's not the weak link here and he has to accept a lot of sacrifices he cannot refuse.

My two cents of course....

This one I like.

Yes, it should have come with the wings update.

And the ability to actually see our NPC crew should have been mandatory.
A very long time ago.
It's just lame that we can't.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Ah ah dear New Number Two , I was about to frag the noob myself : thanks for sparing me the hassle ;-)



According to DrewCarnegie profile, he joined the forum on 26/01/2016.

Yes, JANUARY 2016. He's a kid ! Let's get easy on him : MERCIFUL m8, MERCIFUL ! Of course he doesn't know ...

NPCs (or to be precise "the lack of" ...) is the 'number one' weakness of this game, and the community expressed that to FD even *BEFORE* 1.0 release (yes, during ORIGINAL beta, and even GAMMA for the guys who remember that time). This is why FD should act NOW.

And if Sandro doesn't agree, well, sorry but Sandro is *wrong*. Yes , I know , it hurts, this guy *can't* be wrong like everyone else, right ?
Well, if he really thinks that E can survive with no AIs, I'm afraid he is.

But TBH I suspect he's not the weak link here and he has to accept a lot of sacrifices he cannot refuse.

My two cents of course....

Thank you for proving my point with such eloquence.
Do you feel better now?

 

[raeat]

I strongly recommend you all stay awake and viewing this thread until Sandro gives you the answer you want.

 

[Kubicide]

Hello Commanders!

This is something we still haven't reached a decision on.

The idea of NPC wingmen is totally cool, but there are some interesting issues, mainly revolving around balance. What we'd prefer to avoid is a wingman being a "no-brainer" in terms of effectiveness.

Thanks for replying. But note this was more than an idea and an advertised feature way back when the game launched. And was supposed to be in with the Wings release. So does this mean you've changed plans and no longer consider it part of the roadmap?

IMO balance would become upset not by having the NPC wingman but by the many other imbalances in the game mechanics.

 

[JonSnowman]

I wouldn't be too worried about PvP balance...

I can't find another player in my timezone even if I try (Australia) and I imagine its the same for a lot of people.

If its PvE balance then who cares, the game is already so easy. Bigger problem is that no content requires a full wing.

Maybe you could make capital ships actually dangerous to compensate. Or even the thargoids!?

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Hello Sandro!
Will we ever get to see our NPC crew in our spare seats?

For starters, I would be happy to just have them sitting there.
Being present.

That's all i really want myself as well. Just to see them there with me.

 

[Bobbydylan]

I don't see why NPC wingmen would be "required". Player wingmen are not "required". Just make the wingman take up a slot in a 4 man wing.

 

[Ziljan]

NPC Wingmen?? I think I'd much prefer to have NPC crew. Those empty seats make me feel lonely, especially since no one wants to Multicrew since player wings are ridiculously more efficient, effective, and rewarded.

The NPC crew could just be cosmetic, I really don't care. I just hate looking at empty seats on my ship.

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

NPC Wingmen?? I think I'd much prefer to have NPC crew. Those empty seats make me feel lonely, especially since no one wants to Multicrew since player wings are ridiculously more efficient, effective, and rewarded.

The NPC crew could just be cosmetic, I really don't care. I just hate looking at empty seats on my ship.

Can't you just hire some SLF crew? Don't they fill the cockpit space???

 

[Brusilov]

I don't really need my npc crew to do anything else then being beautiful eye candy will be sufficient for now

 

[Ziljan]

Can't you just hire some SLF crew? Don't they fill the cockpit space???

You can hire them, but they don't fill the empty cockpit seats. Apparently they are hiding somewhere on an undisclosed part of the ship. Yet somehow player crew can access the SLF from cockpit seats? Yeah, doesn't make sense to me either. I suspect the real reason they aren't in the cockpit is that the NPC rendering isn't the same as the HoloMe models. Though it looks closer these days, so hopefully it's being worked on?