Well it looks like they pulled the trigger on delaying the 3.0 release until Gamescom. I wonder whether it would be better for them to make that deadline or miss it, in terms of fundraising. It depends on whether or not 3.0 is a dud. So either they'll get some half-baked 3.0 out the door at all costs, or it'll be "Road to Gamescom 2017" documentary time.
Star Citizen Thread v6
- Thread starter Brett C
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Thanks for fighting the good fight, even tho it falls on deaf ears.
I don't know what to say, but just because a lot of people are throwing money after a project, doesn't mean it's any good.
History is full of examples of that.
Target Corporation attempted to enter the Canadian market, it was a mess, a lot of brilliant people was of the opinion it was a great idea to go into Canada, well it was not. As I said, just because you see a lot of people saying whatever is a good thing, doesn't mean it actually is a good thing.
This is so ridiculous. The only people that can fight the good fight are CIG.
Fanboyism does not help the project in anyway except for enabling other fanboys to feel as though they are part of a clique, as you have demonstrated here.
Because every company goes through this. It is about as big of a deal as getting your paper delivered. Celebrating the growth of a company is just silly chestbeating.
Not at all. Celebrate releases of content, not pedestaling demo videos as though they are milestones for the game.
No you're not "supposed" to care about it very deeply. There's no requirement that you put in 1000 hours of community service for each game you crowdfund. That's just trying to justify fanboyism.
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I think that is a new concept. Originally the developers created something and you purchased it after a release. You read reviews in a magazine, say. You played a demo. You played a friends copy. You had very little awareness of a game in development, the occasional magazine feature and a few screenshots.
Pre-ordering became quite popular, with publishers pushing out all sorts of promotions to get consumers to secure purchase before they had to stand up on their own merits. Maybe this was around the late 90's, information concerning games in development was becoming more available via the internet.
Later we get early access games, the consumer puts than a nominal amount to get in early. DayZ being the poster-child of this generation, perpetually unfinished but everyone has already laid out the cash for it. Elite Dangerous started out as a crowd funded early access game, sure it deserved criticism under this category.
Now we have the newest iteration of this trend. Star Citizen fans cheer the development narrative (Chris Roberts is going to save PC gaming) they are not cheering for the final product. It's that simple. The game is developed to follow this narrative. Nothing is ever worked on iteratively, instead focus goes off on tangents to show new interesting stuff. You are left with a series of unfinished disconnected mini-games. An average arena shooter, a sub par FPS game, a boring racing game, a social module with nothing to do. Now the fans await the next mini-game of "planetary landings".
An established game maker in the business of producing a product would have long since developed the critical paths. They'd know how it was going to scale as a MMO, they'd have long since proven it could scale technically and they would have the core game in there. With working loops that allow the player to move between locations and make progress, persistence that didn't mean waking up in the same shirt. Please don't tell me they wouldn't because I used to work for one.
The point isn't about ignoring the work that's been done, it's that I don't think this is a trend that's about producing a "final" polished entertainment product anymore for consumers - and that's not good. Imagine if No Man's Sky was apparently still in development and HELLO games, after all this time, had instead produced a very early access bug ridden "Alpha" where you took off from just one space station and went down to one planet that looked ok, but there were no mechanics and Sean Murray was still talking..talking..talking about all the neat things that would be in the game, and producing weekly reports about progress showing stuff that didn't run on the build. People would still be cheering it and if they'd let them, throwing money at it. That's Star Citizen.
Discussing delays and bad extimates https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/6lz8su/regarding_the_30_and_obviously_poor_production/
Really? You actually think that SC as is, i.e what you can play now, upstages Pupil to Planet or the Nyx landing zone preview or even the Citizencon sandworm video? Really?!
Well good for you I guess. There's not really any point in even trying to reason or have rational discussion with that.
And the people in here are supposed to be the ones who have it backwards.... righto.
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Fair post, the comments are shocking and vary from telling OP to "shut up" to "how do you estimate something that's never been done before?"
"It's never been done before" is a ridiculous excuse. Every game ever developed hasn't been "done before" and the industry is awash with risky ventures from Half Life 2 to World of Warcraft that at the time pushed boundaries. They probably missed dead-lines but they were pushed extremely hard and the standards of management would have been held accountable along with the quality of the product.
Landing on the Moon had never been done before, I'm guessing NASA doesn't make project plans but caveat them with "oh but it's never been done before" and so not worry too much about missing them by months or years. In fact, there are small research parks in places you wouldn't even realise (like Guildford) where they build things that go into space on tight budgets, in highly professional teams, much smaller than RSI have, they plan everything meticulously. They don't complain that "it's never been done before" everything they work on is entirely cutting edge. They have to ship things out to other countries to literally be launched into space (they very definition of a launch window), imagine planning that. It's called professionalism. Oh yeah, they built part of the rosetta mission that landed on a moving asteroid, talk about "never been done before", tell them about missing a dead line because it's "never been done before"...maybe that asteroid wouldn't mind coming back around...or perhaps we could catch another one? I mean, it's never been done before...
What amazes me is that CIG announce upcoming stuff to be released soon, then they announce a plan for the upcoming stuff literally after the time when it was originally hinted at being released, then they miss all of their estimates. After half a decade they still have no idea about velocity, it's beyond all understanding. Why not simply plan the next feature, work towards the plan, release hints of new stuff to keep the community happy (oh they are good at doing that) then announce the actual feature release at the point when meeting some sort of delivery is looking like a probability? That isn't about being "open", that's about being sensible, "open development" isn't the same as being scatty with details. Saying your going to do something soon(tm) so give me some money now, then coming back later and saying "hey that thing I said I was going to do, now I've drawn up a plan for it so give me some money now" ...then coming back and saying "right that thing I planned hasn't gone to plan so give me some money now".. that isn't "open" that just looks foolish.
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https://robertsspaceindustries.com/schedule-report
And there we are, delayed two more weeks this week. I suspect we wont get further delays, it is now a matter of polishing it as good as possible for gamescon.
And there we are, delayed two more weeks this week. I suspect we wont get further delays, it is now a matter of polishing it as good as possible for gamescon.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/schedule-report
And there we are, delayed two more weeks this week. I suspect we wont get further delays, it is now a matter of polishing it as good as possible for gamescon.
Can someone calculate the limit function to infinity for a 2 week delay every week. At least then we'll have a mathematical function for SC's release date. It's so revolutionary it's like quantum mechanics; it can only be expressed as an equation.
Kind of amazing to be honest. They were going to get 3.0 out and then follow it up with patches every 3 months, that sounded reasonable, what happened...? The end of this year was meant to see the release of neighbouring systems and jump points to them.
Once upon a time 2020 was a joke and now the chances of them releasing a game before 2020 is the joke.
Once upon a time 2020 was a joke and now the chances of them releasing a game before 2020 is the joke.
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That was with the old pipelines. Now they have new pipelines, which will definitely get the content up super fast.
If we pretend that from now on there will never, ever be a delay (ha!), and they can add all stuff originally planned for 3.0 in a weekend (ha!) it'll mean professions will be integrated up to autumn 2018, the first 'jump to another system' will be done in spring/summer 2019, with the alpha finishing somewhere late 2020. Add a year for beta and we're looking at a 2022 full release, provided there are no delays. Which they dont have the funding for, so let me look into my crystall ball again:1) They release a buggy and gimped 3.0 around gamescon.
2) They show amazing and cool vids at gamescon.
3) In between they strongly hint at a MVP release.
4) Followed by more cool vids.
5) Shipsale.
6) 3.x will be the MVP and go live in 2018. Fans will herald it as the perfect game they always backed, reviewers will kill it. The promised 100 systems never arrive, as do most of the stretch goals.
Remember Derek Smart became The Evil One because he said they wouldnt be able to release it in 2016? With all the SC fans screaming those were filthy lies? DS was too optimistic.
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That was with the old pipelines. Now they have new pipelines, which will definitely get the content up super fast.
1) They release a buggy and gimped 3.0 around gamescon.
2) They show amazing and cool vids at gamescon.
3) In between they strongly hint at a MVP release.
4) Followed by more cool vids.
5) Shipsale.
6) 3.x will be the MVP and go live in 2018. Fans will herald it as the perfect game they always backed, reviewers will kill it. The promised 100 systems never arrive, as do most of the stretch goals.
This sounds so accurate it's depressing.
A little song for Star Citizen fans
A little late but oh well..
Star Citizen: Around the Verse - Crafting Procedural Moons
TLDR
Source: https://relay.sc/transcript/around-the-verse-crafting-procedural-moons
Diff for 8th of July 3.0 Production Schedule Report update [2017-07-08]
https://www.diffchecker.com/QvgQo8mg
Monthly Studio Report: June 2017
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/16000-Monthly-Studio-Report-June-2017
Maybe a TLDR of the montly report later, it depends of Relay.sc
REMAINING AIMS FOR 3.0.0 RELEASE
Star Citizen: Around the Verse - Crafting Procedural Moons
[video=youtube;DbEKn6gN4Qk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbEKn6gN4Qk[/video]
Studio Update
Programming
Programming
- Worked on the cockpit experience sprint with a goal of making sitting in the cockpit much more dynamic.
- Integrating black out/red out effects into the actor status system which also features breathing and stamina.
- Cockpit experience sprint also improved G-force animations and player hit reactions.
- Work on close combat is coming along nicely, including work in knife-based takedowns and unarmed takedowns.
- Near to completing the conversion of old player and actor code to the new actor 2.0 or actor status system. This makes creating new player features much easier and improves the reliability of the code.
- Testing the delta patcher with developers after it passed QA’s approval. Early feedback is positive.
- Focus has been on the new render to texture system.
- Hologram system will be used for mission briefings, comm calls, mobiGlas, and other situations.
- Render to texture will be used for all new UI.
- Aiming to use render to texture for live video comm calls between players.
- Exposure control system upgraded to better handle the contrasts between the darkness of space and bright objects such as moons, planets, etc.
- New features added to the GPU particle system for 3.0 such as lighting, turbulence, and anti-aliasing.
- One focus has been on ship weapons - Amon & Reese laser cannons as well as Klaus & Werner laser repeaters.
- In terms of personal weapons, they’ve created a heavy machine gun from Gemini with an iconic cooling system.
- UK has added a 6th member to their concept team - this new addition is looking into Stanton locations and supporting needs on SQ42 locations.
- Environment art creating exciting prototypes for procedural cities - this will allow creating massive cities and landing zones.
- Work continuing to flesh out tools to decorate space - one specific element of this is a new space dust shader allowing large volumes of space dust to be added to Stanton for 3.0.
- Yela’s asteroid belt has been improved, in part via the new space dust shader.
- All major outpost archetypes are finished - this includes branding for various companies and organizations. Some unique varieties also includes such as emergency shelters, abandoned outposts, and more.
- Outpost clusters and exterior elements finalized. This includes, among other things, RELAY STATIONS.
- Ongoing work to integrate outposts with planet surfaces - sand/dust/frost finalized along with decals adding extra dirt buildup.
- Pre-polish and optimization work on exterior of truck stop. Work focusing on the interiors.
- Admin offices added to truck stop and other locations around Stanton for the purposes of mission completion.
- Two new shops added to Grim Hex - independent ship parts trader and an old electronics store.
- Work continuing on new mobiGlas UI and associated apps for 3.0.
- mobiGlas and kiosk UIs now using render to texture.
- Multidisciplinary sprint ongoing for the Starmap app to implement remaining needed functionality for 3.0 and improve visuals.
- Basic functionality of mission manager app completed.
- Ongoing implementation of multifunction displays in cockpits.
- Audio completed for railgun.
- Steady progress on derelict ship audio + interior ship audio for Javelin.
- Improved actor status system so breathing works better alongside dialogue.
- Improved environmental and ambient audio for 3.0 locations.
- Continued development of takedown/kill mechanics.
- Jump mechanic has received some love to allow it to cope with varied environments and gravity states.
- mobiGlas moved from look pose to aim pose for better functionality and improved animations surrounding mobiGlas use.
- Continued work on 3.0 mission givers.
- Seeing quick turnaround of mocap data into the game in a matter of days.
- Derelicts prepared for ground and space include Starfarer, Caterpillar, Constellation, and Freelancer.
- Geometry has been finalized for the folding section of the Hull C. Work on finishing the mechanical rig and ensuring no collisions. Front interior got a lighting pass while rear interior has been blocked out.
- Work on Eclipse well underway - focus on the cockpit currently. Additional work has been done on landing gear and wings.
- Work on Reclaimer is nearly complete - only 3 room left to go through final art.
- Reclaimer cockpit screens will fold around the player to accommodate the tight space.
- Final art on tractor beam seats for Reclaimer completed.
- The same planet tech that they have used all along will be going into the 3.0 release with each planet having it's own gravity, ecosystems, objects, weather and atmospheres
- You can progress seamlessly from space to planet and back smoothly without any cut scenes or interruptions
- To allow landing anywhere seamlessly procedural generation and scattering is used
- To make it look good several levels from different artists are layered and faded into the final result
- Scaling down from a solar system perspective to a planet surface is another challenge
- From a fixed pool the geometry and the textures are procedurally generated and combined at run time blending many layers.
- Source data use for generation is very small and thereby the generation and blending are also very efficient
- Most of the R&D in the last couple of months went towards object scattering to prevent an empty look to the planets
- An algorithm was made to achieve a natural look using automation in the placement of objects
- The logic of the algorithm also allows for the defining of related particle effects and of audio as well
- These were used as packages that were designated to areas and further defined by more added parameters that would allow the tweaking of scaling, random rotation, alignment to terrain, etc.
- The art team built all the assets that form the rocks and shrubs are are remixed and varied by using Substance Designer allowing for smart design later and more variation in the future
- Lighting dictated by the time of day also has been accounted for in this system
- The assets in the library are reusable allowing more to be put into memory and also makes covering large areas faster
- Star Citizen has no backgrounds or barriers like other games that prevent a player from fully interacting with the environment
- The procedural generation is deterministic with terrain generation performed by the CPU and the visual textures with the client's GPU with results cached in the fixed geometry pool mesh and distributed through the available mesh in cores, and so is very efficient and doesn't require information transit to replicate the environments
- An example of the hurdle of scale as a challenge can be seen with the typical FPS game which covers only the four kilometer play area whereas Star Citizens is covering all areas without boundaries
- The end results create delightful surprises not expected for even the artists producing a definite wow effect when it all comes together
Diff for 8th of July 3.0 Production Schedule Report update [2017-07-08]
https://www.diffchecker.com/QvgQo8mg
Monthly Studio Report: June 2017
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/16000-Monthly-Studio-Report-June-2017
Maybe a TLDR of the montly report later, it depends of Relay.sc
REMAINING AIMS FOR 3.0.0 RELEASE
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Does this mean they are implying their Magical Netcode (aim date ujuly 4th) is now officially complete, done, working and definitely part of 3.0?
Does this mean they are implying their Magical Netcode (aim date ujuly 4th) is now officially complete, done, working and definitely part of 3.0?
Well, the netcode for current 3.0 has almost nothing of the much-touted StarNetwork, so yes and no. The netcode should be done, it just won't be the magical one that was promised earlier.
Just had a quick skim through some of that.... people claiming CIG are a new company made me smile. How many years does it take till a company stops being new?
That lines up pretty much with the rest of the game then. The game will eventually be finished. It just wont be the one promised and advertised all these years.
When I first read the 3.0 slides in 2016 they gave a pretty clear impression on what to expect from Star Citizen once they are integrated. But the process is so painfully slow and confusing (in no small part thanks to all the ATVs which are IMO used to "brainwash" and control peoples expectations) that now......1 year later (original timeline be damned) nobody really is sure what is in and how things have changed. People just keep bringing up the original version bolstered with old video material in its defense. The current status of 3.0 is worrying at best. At some point you have to step back and ASK the tough questions.
Why exactly is the almost only reliable thing about CiG the backpushing of release dates?
And because there is no answer (no official one at least) you come up with your own thoughts and reasons and depending on where you stand in this project most of them wont be good. I found the Reddit link from Cotic incredibly telling in that regard. The OP isnt even overly agressive or abusive. Its just concern and a question but the SC defenders manage to drag the whole thread into a mudfest in no time. The OP stated at one point that hes "white knighting" as well but at some point he became fed up and let his frustration air. Its an understandable reaction to be honest. In order to have patience and understanding with CiG and how they develop Star Citizen you gonna need a nearly Ghandi-style attitude and even that probably wont be enough.
And nobody really does have that kind of patience anyway. Even the people defending Star Citizen air their own frustration and impatience by attacking the people asking and voicing their concerns. So everybodies frustration and anger is born from the same source.....Star Citizen. Just the direction of the venting varies. If Star Citizen really was the dream game coming true and you think its on a good way and will be here "soon" then why argue with "haters"? Why start to become personal and abusive? I think the reason is that these people do realize that the project is mismanaged and that they are further away from a game then ever before but somehow attacking the people voicing their own concerns is a good thing.
Being skeptical and addressing concerns is indeed "fighting the good fight". Nobody ever gets thanked for doing it and many people approach it wrong or troll alongside the legit posters. History will eventually decide who was right.
There is no need to become personal or start calling other people names like "hater". If their concerns are indeed so laughable and irrelevant as pro-SC backers believe then it should be easy to engage them in a civilized manner and discuss this without problems. Because the quality of the game would speak for itself mostly. I m reading this thread for exactly this kind of debate but I havent really see anything convincing bar "you have to believe" so far. Pointing out technical problems or deficits leads ultimately to "wait for 3.0 which will solve a lot of these things" and that should be it. Only it isnt because everybody realizes how lame that sounds after the Xth repetition.
dayrth
Volunteer Moderator
And ship sales. They are VERY reliable.
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