FDev, please consider doing something about the Elite exploration rank

[TheSynopticVision]

The "creation" of the Road to Riches and the release of the PS4 version of the game have almost been simultaneous, and as a result you can now find people with a few hours of gameplay and who never even left the bubble (or very nearly) who are Elite in exploration.

Now, make no mistake, I am not saying that the RtR is an exploit. It's obviously not, the planets are there, and to scan them is perfectly legitimate, so no objection there.

What I am saying is that there's obviously something very broken in the criterion used to assign the Elite exploration rank. It just cannot be simply a matter of how much you cashed in. There should be other criteria to meet (I would suggest, for example, a minimum distance away from the bubble, a minimum distance travelled on an SRV, as well as a minimum number of astronomical objects scanned...but there could be more perhaps).

I understand that the trade rank is based on money, and I understand that the Combat rank grows in proportion of the rank of the ships you destroy (both make sense). But the exploration one? As it stands it's totally broken. Doing the RtR gives you Elite exploration, but going to Beagle Point and back (without sufficient scanning on the way) does not? That makes no sense -- both gameplay-wise and lore-wise.

So please, when you go back to the re-hauling of core mechanics (or before? that would be awesome!), please do something about this.

 

[goemon]

I understand that the trade rank is based on money, and I understand that the Combat rank grows in proportion of the rank of the ships you destroy (both make sense).

i don't understand. you can make trading elite without ever using the commodity market (just running missions), and the fastest way to combat elite is shooting elite sideys, adder and eagles at comp nav beacons.

the same applies to exploration the one way of the other. in former times that was "neutron field farming", than it was "passenger missions", now its farming ELW from one of the many lists and tools around.

you can always game the system.

i have no problem with that (and while i dipped very deep into state depending trading for my elite trading rank, and have never really farmed neutron stars for my elite exploration rank even before passenger missions have been in the game, i sat 2 times a day 1 hour shooting sideys and eagles at a comp nav beacon in my FDL - without any challenge or being "a real combat pilot" by now).

generally all three elite ranks have the problem imho, that you neither gain skill or experience from the last 1 or 2 ranks - those a simply a sign of endurance. if people get this sign by a shortcut, all power to them.

 

[TheSynopticVision]

i don't understand. you can make trading elite without ever using the commodity market (just running missions), and the fastest way to combat elite is shooting elite sideys, adder and eagles at comp nav beacons.

the same applies to exploration the one way of the other. in former times that was "neutron field farming", than it was "passenger missions", now its farming ELW from one of the many lists and tools around.

you can always game the system.

i have no problem with that (and while i dipped very deep into state depending trading for my elite tading rank, and have only farmed 500 neutron stars for my elite exploration rank, i sat 2 times a day 1 hour shooting sideys and eagles at a comp nav beacon in my FDL - without any challenge or being "a real combat pilot" by now).

generally all three elite ranks have the problem imho, that you neither gain skill or experience from the last 1 or 2 ranks - those a simply a sign of endurance.

Well....fine. But you're not really disagreeing with me, are you? I was mainly concerned with exploration. It might be that the other 2 have problems too, OK, but I think the exploration one is the most glaring in light of recent events.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

Road to Riches?

 

[VonBlade]

Road to Riches?

It's an online list of earth like worlds within the bubble. Think of it like the explorer version of the old rares trade loops. Go here, scan this, go there, scan that, hand it all in, boom Elite.

 

[Stonn Mrogg]

It's an online list of earth like worlds within the bubble. Think of it like the explorer version of the old rares trade loops. Go here, scan this, go there, scan that, hand it all in, boom Elite.

Have people no sense of pride in their achievements? Have they no drive to not only get the rank but BE the rank? No concerns about the devaluing of a cherished symbol?

Oh wait, just got a board worth 30mil in Quince, gotta go....

 

[goemon]

But you're not really disagreeing with me, are you? .

i disagree with the assumption, that any of the three ranks comes with any necessity of skill or experience or both. and i'm saying that as somebody who made triple elite.

 

[Belan]

You couldn't make distance in an SRV a requirement. Not everyone owns Horizons.

 

[kpmop]

It's an online list of earth like worlds within the bubble. Think of it like the explorer version of the old rares trade loops. Go here, scan this, go there, scan that, hand it all in, boom Elite.

Yeah, there's nothing wrong staying in the bubble, but effectively following a walk-through is a bit sad - it's not like exploration is particularly difficult.

Heh maybe FD should just add ranks to the store!

 

[TheSynopticVision]

You couldn't make distance in an SRV a requirement. Not everyone owns Horizons.

Fair enough. True.

i disagree with the assumption, that any of the three ranks comes with any necessity of skill or experience or both. and i'm saying that as somebody who made triple elite.

OK...but do you agree that in principle they all should require skill or experience or both? Why settle with the crap status quo?

 

[metatheurgist]

Primary issue is they increased exploration payout massively but haven't adjusted exploration rank tiers accordingly. Not only have people that did exploration early get shorted, now it's easier to get.

 

[Leper Messiah]

not sure where I stand on this...I agree in principal with the op, and agree the combat rank is a bit broken too (trading seems fine as it's money (profit based)). Combat should only go up if equal or better ranks are killed (I thought it was already this though). Exploration should include a more complex equation....... I would like to say that at the least a visit to Sag A should be an Elite exploration mandatory requirement, along with a certain number of scans.....but then I also feel people should be able to play the game how they want...hence the quandary

 

[TheSynopticVision]

not sure where I stand on this...I agree in principal with the op, and agree the combat rank is a bit broken too (trading seems fine as it's money (profit based)). Combat should only go up if equal or better ranks are killed (I thought it was already this though). Exploration should include a more complex equation....... I would like to say that at the least a visit to Sag A should be an Elite exploration mandatory requirement, along with a certain number of scans.....but then I also feel people should be able to play the game how they want...hence the quandary

Well, it's not mandatory to get Elite. It's a mark of particular distinction. I don't think it means to exclude people, it simply means to reward those stubborn enough to get it...

 

[Trickylion]

Dont change it i am 2 months in the black, scanning and honking, want to survive and get to elite on my return...

 

[VR StarLightPL]

In the end, nobody can see your exploration or trading rank except you. Decals? Yeah right, if someone is that close it means he is more interested in shredding your hull with multicannons than reading your rank. So does it matter to you how other people get their rank nowadays?

It used to be the same with Pokemon'Go's ancestor, Ingress. Getting to level 8 in the beginning required travelling to other cities for example. Later the level 8 devaluated and you could even speedrun it in hours, but being "8 when it actual meant something" I didn't have a problem with that and actually wore the title with pride ;-)

I am also puzzled that the same system (from trading) is used for exploration. Number of scanned bodies or visited systems would be better.

And if somebody wants to be an explorer and didn't buy Horizons then frankly he doesn't deserve even a novice in exploration. Elite is IMHO severely limited without horizons - planetary landings DO make immersion difference. Aliens not even mentioned.

 

[Stonn Mrogg]

After some thought about my distaste for the RtR idea, perhaps such a thing could be reduced and some realism could be added by devaluing a body based on how many times it's been scanned. I mean, comon, that how much value is there to repeated scans of a moon? Not that I don't cashing in on the "Discovered by Joe Schmedly" like I was Joe Schmedly, but it does seem wrong and the RtR offends the explorer purist in me.

 

[DCLXVI your God]

The "creation" of the Road to Riches and the release of the PS4 version of the game have almost been simultaneous, and as a result you can now find people with a few hours of gameplay and who never even left the bubble (or very nearly) who are Elite in exploration.

Now, make no mistake, I am not saying that the RtR is an exploit. It's obviously not, the planets are there, and to scan them is perfectly legitimate, so no objection there.

What I am saying is that there's obviously something very broken in the criterion used to assign the Elite exploration rank. It just cannot be simply a matter of how much you cashed in. There should be other criteria to meet (I would suggest, for example, a minimum distance away from the bubble, a minimum distance travelled on an SRV, as well as a minimum number of astronomical objects scanned...but there could be more perhaps).

I understand that the trade rank is based on money, and I understand that the Combat rank grows in proportion of the rank of the ships you destroy (both make sense). But the exploration one? As it stands it's totally broken. Doing the RtR gives you Elite exploration, but going to Beagle Point and back (without sufficient scanning on the way) does not? That makes no sense -- both gameplay-wise and lore-wise.

So please, when you go back to the re-hauling of core mechanics (or before? that would be awesome!), please do something about this.

I have to agree with you.
One should actually explore to become an explorer.

But don't see the present system as broken, at all; but it could be done better.

 

[dognosh]

Road to Riches?

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/357479-Billionaire-Bubble-Jump

 

[dognosh]

Well the smartest puppies in ED were the combateers,as Combat Elite was much easier in 2015 than it is now
Then in 2016 we got Smuggling/Sothis/Quince , many Traders became Elite
Now we have Exploration Elites everywhere in 2017.

Guess what ? I did it totally backwards(knowing my luck)

 

[Kaocraft]

Primary issue is that exploration advancement is calculated based on raw credit payouts only. It's fine to adjust the amount of credits you get for performing different kinds of exploration related activities (and quasi-exploration related like passenger missions). But the progression of your exploration rank should be calculated in a way that is completely independent of that, and should take stock of all the different actions you perform and use them in a sensibly weighted way to advance you through the ranks.

So, yeah: give greater weight to discoveries that are further from the bubble, give greater weight to first discoveries, give greater weight to complete system scans, give greater weight to SRV distance traveled and further increase that weight with distance from the bubble. It should be possible to make billions in scan data, but not make Elite in exploration, if all you're doing is following something like the Road to Riches.

To draw the parallels with the other Elite "paths": combat rank is based on ships you actually shoot down, not on credits earned via bounties, or credits earned by doing Massacre missions, or any secondary earnings-related metric like that. Your combat rank is determined by the actual number and relative rank of the ships you personally shoot down. And it has a weighting to it where the higher your rank, the higher the rank of ship you need to shoot down in order to move the needle. So while it is technically *possible,* as one poster pointed out, to reach Elite rank by plinking at Harmless sidewinders all day long; there are diminishing returns.

Exploration ranking needs a second look and should be adjusted to function in a logically-consistent way which reflects your actions rather than your income, similar to the way combat works.

Trade obviously *should* be all about profits and it makes perfect sense to tie it into that. Which is all the more reason why we don't want Exploration ranking to be the same as Trade, but merely for a different marketplace.