Possible to have HARD elite NPCs at CNBs/HazRez/HighCZ/piratelords?

[Tenshi]

Fighting them without using RNGineers is a valid solution IMO, they're a lot tougher. But, just because some have spent millions on RNGineered ships, it doesn't mean that NPCs should be adjusted to accommodate them. If anything, RNGineers should be scrapped and everyone on a "level" playing field. The idea of RNG was FD's lazy way of trying to improve balance in combat with minimum effort. The game has been ruined, in part, because of it IMO.

I agree the Egnineers were not really needed in the game. I like the idea of them but they make ships far to tough and deadly. The AI used to be a nightmare when they to could have engineered ships. I say we bring those back and let those who think the NPC's are too soft and easy cry on the forums and ask them to be toned down once more.

 

[Kaa Mchorror]

No. I've been in betas with much better AI. People cried that it was too hard (often people who hadn't actually played the beta), and the AI got a lobotomy.

Same with the proposed changes to shields twice now. The low hanging fruit prefer winning every time.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

Which is a non-starter as it will result in masses of whining from people who enter anyway then can't survive in those certain area's.

Look at it from the opposite angle how would you feel about a downgrade in AI ability. Thats how less capable players react to requests like this.

especially since there are numbers of threads and posts not considering anyone else but the bored specialist combat players need for better AI elswehere. but range i have no problem with. and imo if people enter the (hypothetical) USS minor skirmish levl 7/ USS major engagement threat level 8 and die qucikly AND THEN complain, they cannot say they werent warned. just like anarchy systems. dangerous, the cops are all hiding around their station to stay safe and wont come running and if that wing of pirates manages to interdict you then you are on your own. making USS in an anarchy system should be misleading also - it says endoded emissions threat level 0 - but its an anarchy and admiral ackbar should be screaming in your head as you slow to drop out of SC...

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

I agree the Egnineers were not really needed in the game. I like the idea of them but they make ships far to tough and deadly. The AI used to be a nightmare when they to could have engineered ships. I say we bring those back and let those who think the NPC's are too soft and easy cry on the forums and ask them to be toned down once more.

i explore sometimes. i disagree engineers were totally unnecessary. a range engineered FSD is a must to remove some of the inherent grind in exploring, especially returning. but the combat stuff... it just complicates the whole AI thing further.

i mean you have all the different types of CZ and res, and uss. plus on top you have npc combat rank and ship type. and then their ship loadout. then do you have two different AI versions, type A for general and type B for truly evil places. or thargoids.

maybe the thargoid AI will be very different considering their tech seems to work in a different way. and maybe that once the alien AI is out they will need to be balancing the AI all round again.

 

[Jason Lightning]

I agree the Egnineers were not really needed in the game. I like the idea of them but they make ships far to tough and deadly. The AI used to be a nightmare when they to could have engineered ships. I say we bring those back and let those who think the NPC's are too soft and easy cry on the forums and ask them to be toned down once more.

Actually that's the type of AI a lot of us want out of the high ranked NPCs, that or tougher would be nice on Thargoids as well.

Better yet, under this proposal those that don't want to deal with powered up NPCs won't have to, since these upgraded NPCs would be in the title mentioned dangerous spots and not the lower end RES and CZs.

 

[Riverside]

Improving your ship will improve your firepower, acceleration, agility, speed, or defenses. Improving the AI would mean AI that doesn't only try to suicidally face-tank you, AI that tries to avoid fire, AI that tried to get in your blind spots, AI that will run if low on health. Those are two vastly different things.

Perhaps this is the point. The NPCs have relatively few manoeuvres & techniques & players have worked out counters for those, or perhaps from experience with PvP (where the opponent is less predictable) the relatively simple techniques are no longer a challenge once the player has worked them out.

A few (or a lot) more options for how they behave might be the solution. Increase the fidelity of the lookup table of moves I guess.

 

[HeavyGroovez]

Even really strong NPCs will never give you the same buzz that you get when you face real cmdrs.

If you want a decent scrap then you need to get stuck in at a PvP hotspot.

 

[CMDR Ellegon]

I get wrecked by AI in my cutter above expert. Dont know why you would want them harder

That is really surprising. I fly a Cutter with 384 tons of Cargo space, quite substantially engineered all around, with a SLF on hand. An Elite NPC Fer-de-Lance or Anaconda will not even take a ring off my shields before it goes *boom* - and I do not consider myself the greatest combat pilot. So I assume that your build-out has issues, unless it is one of those "I am greedy who needs defenses" trader builds.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

Even really strong NPCs will never give you the same buzz that you get when you face real cmdrs.

If you want a decent scrap then you need to get stuck in at a PvP hotspot.

Unfortunately, the Engineers means to get stuck in to PvP, you need to get well and truly stuck in to the Engineers.

Don't get me wrong, I like what the Engineers bring, but I don't want to have to roll each and every module 300 times to get that God roll, just so I can take part in PvP with the people who already have done that.

Not to mention I don't even like PvP.

Edit:
What I'd be very happy with, and it's probably easy to do (because it used to be in the game more), is simply have a bigger chance of spawning bigger wings of NPC's in RESs and Nav Beacons.

No matter how good you make the AI, we'll always beat it in 1v1.

But even dumb NPC's can be dangerous in numbers.
So simply let the game spawn wings in any size from 2 to 20, or something in a Res or Nav Beacon.

Then, as a CMDR, YOU choose what to take on.
Can't handle 5v1? don't engage them.

This also fixes the game being too easy for wings.

 

[CMDR Ellegon]

Once more, the discussions has reduced to this:

 

[wrmiller]

Even really strong NPCs will never give you the same buzz that you get when you face real cmdrs.

If you want a decent scrap then you need to get stuck in at a PvP hotspot.

I'll never have all of the engineers unlocked, nor spend the time to get the huge amounts of mats needed to get really good rolls even if I did have all of them unlocked, so dropping into a PvP hotspot would get me nothing but a rebuy screen. And that wouldn't be much fun. For me that is.

So I'll stick to my slightly modified ships and pick and choose my fights in PvE or Mobius_PvE.

 

[Omgzzwtf]

+1 to the idea of "Extremely hazardous" RES sites. Something to give fully G5 rated PVE Vettes a challenge.

I'm not sure if RES sites would be the best place for these, I like the idea of having places for extremely hazardous pirates/outlaws, but it would be nice if they could put them in different places, way out of the way, like a pirate hideout in an asteroid belt, or a deep space platform. Maybe even flying above a base on the surface, where you could engage in ship or SRV

 

[sb413197]

Once more, the discussions has reduced to this:

http://i.imgur.com/qEuOY7d.gif

I disagree. There seems to be some enthusiasm for a new, avoidable signal source with buffed ships - engineered and with the GOOD AI. I like the idea of a threat level 8 or something. Players who don't want to deal with this, don't have to.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

Once more, the discussions has reduced to this:

http://i.imgur.com/qEuOY7d.gif

not entirely - but rep for excellent pic

 

[Schmack]

Just a thought, but what if FD were to put together a few of the larger ships that have perfect god-rolls (if that's the right term) with everything maxed out and create a new Dangerous/Deadly Res site where these ships would randomly appear. Sometimes in wings.

Make these NPCs so OP'd that no matter what the player has in their ship it will take everything they have, and a bit of luck to beat them. Or maybe better still, have aliens randomly drop into these new sites with new uber powerful weps and shields that are near impossible to beat one-on-one.

I would stay the heck away, but for those with the really powerful ships it could be entertaining.

I think 60% of the time, it would work all of the time.

 

[Tarman]

My Combat ranking is Expert. I think. My largest vessel is a Clipper that I basically "won" due to high rankings in the Coronation CG and a LYR discount on another discount; it's currently a nice-looking overpowered mining ship (used to be a smuggler, it's a bit over-Engied for mere mining). Only current viable pure combat ship is a mid-Engied Vulture.

Even I think the AI is pretty sad sometimes. It needs moar... depth of behaviour, is the way I think of it.

Quite apart from difficulty which can be tweaked in a number of ways using situational effects such as capital ship presence (massive fitar waves pls), the individual AI needs to start existing for itself better than present. I'd like them to fly more like they have stuff to do after the fight, either offensively or defensively in a tactical sense. Maybe more cohesive pack tactics would be in order for next iterations.

 

[Riverside]

My Combat ranking is Expert. I think.

One of the issues I have with the baddies that interdict you (pirates, bounty hunters etc) is that they are tailored (mostly) to your combat rank. I'm Combat Elite & only ever get interdicted by Elite NPCs (caveat: I have been exploring since before Christmas), and I guess you never get interdicted by Elites. You might enjoy a higher ranked opponent for the challenge without farming (as I did when ranking up), whereas I have mostly lost interest in combat & would prefer a little variety.

For the stuff that does come to the player, I'm not convinced the player's combat rank is a useful KPI, or at least not that alone.

I wonder if a 'rolling last 50 NPC kills' average rank could be used to better represent the players desire for stronger (or weaker) opponents. Use the Karma system to track their recent behaviour & model around that.

 

[Schmack]

Since the developer has to consider system requirements to run the product, they cannot make everything so complex. I'm amazed they can do this much tbh.

I wish we could customize our interactions with pirates and such. I'd like to change some of the text they send to say basically the same thing, in a NSFW version. Think Samuel Jackson interdicting you.

 

[Kingston@#]

I get wrecked by AI in my cutter above expert. Dont know why you would want them harder

AI does need to be harder. plenty have asked for it, including me. it was good at one stage and that only lasted a day I think. moaners killed the AI and KILLED a lot of Cmdrs enjoyment at the same time.
tip for you moaners learn your craft, increase your skill level. play in solo.
DEVS how about making solo AI easy, for the (moaners)and open AI HARD for those who have skill in their skill set. key to players rank. instead of pandering to the minority group of moaners.
life is cheap especially in EDH.

 

[HeavyGroovez]

Unfortunately, the Engineers means to get stuck in to PvP, you need to get well and truly stuck in to the Engineers.

Don't get me wrong, I like what the Engineers bring, but I don't want to have to roll each and every module 300 times to get that God roll, just so I can take part in PvP with the people who already have done that.

Not to mention I don't even like PvP.

Edit:
What I'd be very happy with, and it's probably easy to do (because it used to be in the game more), is simply have a bigger chance of spawning bigger wings of NPC's in RESs and Nav Beacons.

No matter how good you make the AI, we'll always beat it in 1v1.

But even dumb NPC's can be dangerous in numbers.
So simply let the game spawn wings in any size from 2 to 20, or something in a Res or Nav Beacon.

Then, as a CMDR, YOU choose what to take on.
Can't handle 5v1? don't engage them.

This also fixes the game being too easy for wings.

Honestly its actually not that bad. Forget the whole god roll nonsense. If you have a sensible build and you are paying attention you wont ever have a real problem. And more to the point you might get involved in a decent brawl. Even if you have to do a runner its still a spike that gets your heart pumping. That's what PvP is about.