From a limited sample size (of one faction) it seems the State Change has gone through. Just waiting for the Influence Change to follow.
A Guide to Minor Factions and the Background Sim
- Thread starter Walt Kerman
- Start date
Nothing for me yet (not even state changes) in the half dozen systems I'm monitoring. Tick has been nudging forward very slightly for a while but this is a big delay. Which often is a sign of problems.
[Edit: looks like tick is happening - start of changes was around 21:00 GMT).
[Edit: looks like tick is happening - start of changes was around 21:00 GMT).
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As of 10.30 UK BST the tick has happened, at least for the systems I'm watching.
Jane Turner
Volunteer Moderator
Tick started about 10 min AGO
Hasn't happened where I am, 16 Lyrae, 3 1/2 hours later. I know this for certain, as we equalised influence yesterday. Still equal.
Edit - did finally happen.
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Tick's happened here for the systems I watch.
Wasn't sure whether or not to chuck this in Goemon's BGS Trading thread or not... but thought I'd chuck it here for opinions...
We know that items which you haven't paid for (i.e stolen/salvaged/mined goods) get the profit they earn (since it's based off a 0-cost) treated slightly differently in terms of BGS impact... that is, if you sell an item for 12,000cr and earn 1,000cr profit, selling a salvaged variant for ostensibly 12,000cr 'profit' (as the item is free) is nowhere near 12 times as effective... but selling a 12,000cr item for 2,000cr profit *would* be close to doubly effective. This reduced impact has been alluded to several times in patch notes.
So interestingly, I salvaged 1t of Palladium,, giving me a "free" item. I then purchased a further 10 tonnes of Palladium... The game then seemed to treat the 11t of palladium I had as all bought for the price of 10t.
So what? Well, instead of:
10 x 1,400cr profit sales + 1 x 0-cost sale, I had
11 x 3,400cr profit sales
We haven't done much in the way of the analysis of influence gains on zero-profit items (at least, I'm not aware of any), but we do know they've been reduced in impact in patches.
What we *do* know thanks to Goemon's research is that the 11 x 3,400cr profit sales are waaaay more effective than the 10 x 1,400cr sales,, in the order that a single 0-cost sale is unlikely (in my experience) to cover that difference.
I don't think this is something that can be easily exploited at-scale; due to the various caps involved as per Goemon's post, buying 1t of any mined product before trading it in, while it would have an effect, wouldn't really have a huge impact after the caps are taken into consideration; you'd have a better time just running the BGS like normal.
Anyway... food for thought.
NOTE: This effect is fine, for any system where an item obtained for 0cr and sold for 12,000cr has the same influence effect of selling 12 items bought for 11,000cr and sold for 12,000... I just don't think that's what happens.
Wasn't sure whether or not to chuck this in Goemon's BGS Trading thread or not... but thought I'd chuck it here for opinions...
We know that items which you haven't paid for (i.e stolen/salvaged/mined goods) get the profit they earn (since it's based off a 0-cost) treated slightly differently in terms of BGS impact... that is, if you sell an item for 12,000cr and earn 1,000cr profit, selling a salvaged variant for ostensibly 12,000cr 'profit' (as the item is free) is nowhere near 12 times as effective... but selling a 12,000cr item for 2,000cr profit *would* be close to doubly effective. This reduced impact has been alluded to several times in patch notes.
So interestingly, I salvaged 1t of Palladium,, giving me a "free" item. I then purchased a further 10 tonnes of Palladium... The game then seemed to treat the 11t of palladium I had as all bought for the price of 10t.
So what? Well, instead of:
10 x 1,400cr profit sales + 1 x 0-cost sale, I had
11 x 3,400cr profit sales
We haven't done much in the way of the analysis of influence gains on zero-profit items (at least, I'm not aware of any), but we do know they've been reduced in impact in patches.
What we *do* know thanks to Goemon's research is that the 11 x 3,400cr profit sales are waaaay more effective than the 10 x 1,400cr sales,, in the order that a single 0-cost sale is unlikely (in my experience) to cover that difference.
I don't think this is something that can be easily exploited at-scale; due to the various caps involved as per Goemon's post, buying 1t of any mined product before trading it in, while it would have an effect, wouldn't really have a huge impact after the caps are taken into consideration; you'd have a better time just running the BGS like normal.
Anyway... food for thought.
NOTE: This effect is fine, for any system where an item obtained for 0cr and sold for 12,000cr has the same influence effect of selling 12 items bought for 11,000cr and sold for 12,000... I just don't think that's what happens.
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Good morning! I have a question on wars and civil wars. I know there was some discussion around which kind of missions move influence during these states. What is the current consensus there? Are massacres useful beyond earning money? All the missions that have something war in their title, will they move influence?
Thanks in advance for any experience you might have to share! Cheers!
Thanks in advance for any experience you might have to share! Cheers!
Think the current line is still that no missions contribute to influence during war/civil war.
If correct, needs big reporting as combat related missions have been stated by them to have an effect!
May have been temporarily suspended due to the failure of massacre missions to actually appear of course..
Got a quote for that? Because I'm pretty sure they've stated combat actions, not missions, have an effect; that is
- Combat Bonds
- Bounties
- Destroying enemy ships
"Missions" are their own bucket in that regard.
EDIT: FWIW, I did bugreport this a loooong time ago. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/273184-Missions-No-effect-on-factions-in-war-state
As far as I know it's never been actioned.
2nd Edit: Interestingly, the stuff by walt on the front page contradicts itself... in one comment it says it's missions and combat actions that affect influence in a war state... but in a picture in the same post...
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inluence gains from profit are capped at ~700 cr/t. but it would be interesting to see whether that works for less profitable goods ... tea for exampel.
i think, official wording was
"only combat missions and actions contribute" - see here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/221826-Dev-Update-(07-01-2016)
... but this was changed later on to counter the effect of mission farmers...
a clean test would be in order!
I take the view if I'm going to fight in a CW/War anyway, and my chosen faction has a Massacre mission available for a kill count I think I will achieve, then it should do no BGS harm in taking the mission, as I'll need to come back to the(a) station to turn in the Bonds anyway. Completing the mission might not help the BGS Inf, but it shouldn't hurt it. Plus some Rep for me, and some Credits to boot.
Massacre missions reduce the lockdown for your faction and increase it for the enemy.
Perhaps I missed it somewhere, however I have noticed various political forms, trading with their distinctive rival political forms, in other systems, e.g. Anarchy with Democracies, etc, etc.
Is there any known correlation between any of these trade partners?
Does actions against one have any effect against the other, in a different system e.g. shipments of x,y,z not as plentiful, bust status possible, etc.
Additionally what has been calculated here as being the worth of ea. + in a mission? From my own notes I see an average of 0.20-0.272% per +, but do not know yet if it is mission dependent, if the singular % raises when multiples are applied, etc.
Is there any known correlation between any of these trade partners?
Does actions against one have any effect against the other, in a different system e.g. shipments of x,y,z not as plentiful, bust status possible, etc.
Additionally what has been calculated here as being the worth of ea. + in a mission? From my own notes I see an average of 0.20-0.272% per +, but do not know yet if it is mission dependent, if the singular % raises when multiples are applied, etc.
Hi Commanders
I've been through the thread to check but it's a monster so I might have missed it but does anyone know how many missions the influence cap for a pilot maxes out at? (Assuming no resistance, other commander activity).
I know it depends on system size but even a rough idea would be useful.
o7
I've been through the thread to check but it's a monster so I might have missed it but does anyone know how many missions the influence cap for a pilot maxes out at? (Assuming no resistance, other commander activity).
I know it depends on system size but even a rough idea would be useful.
o7
The 'cap' people generally refer to doesn't actually exist... but there is diminishing returns to the point there may seem to be a cap. So all work contributes to higher gains, just that more effort becomes less effective eventually.
There's no real hard and fast rule.
Interesting.
Any idea how quickly the returns rate decays?
Thanks for the answer.
Any idea how quickly the returns rate decays?
Thanks for the answer.
Hi Cmdr.
The exact point is the holy grail and will always depend on X or Y.
Geomon has done some great work concentrating on trade https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/357715-BGS-Trading-for-Influence.
All I can add is that it is probably lower than you think it would be, A single Cmdr in a sidewinder can take a system. Unopposed.
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