Elite Dangerous didnt really promise more then what the game had when it released. There were talks about DLCs and future functionality but you didnt buy ED based on that potential (at least I didnt). You bought it based on what the game offered you at the time. Star Citizen promises the world but we already know we will only get a "MVP" and the stuff we expected it to have at release are a big "maybe" on the following 10 years.
i was very satisfied what i got with elite dangerous purchase, so satisfied that i bought horizon as soon as it released.
but i have to be honest here, horizon has missed lot of promises.
1st: horizon player isnt equal with non horizon player. back when horizon launched there were talks about how horizon wont give p2w advantage. That became untrue with engineers.
2nd: planets are still fairly devoid of contend.
Sure theres loads of stuff to look at but gameplay wise theres pretty much 0 addition there.
3rd tectonics are still missing. This was promised back during last year's gamescom when they were talking about volcanoes on stream.
4th multicrew was simplified a lot from initial talk.
5th only single SRV has been released.
Overall horizon was welcome addition to elite. But they did miss their promises. They did explain why multicrew had to be simplified (lack of resources and amount of technical difficulties).
Now in star citizen case they have pretty much missed 90% what they have promised. Even worse they have downgraded the things they showcased (RIP. star marine 2014) and they have downgraded 3.0 to 2.7: Even worse they have let derek smart become the number 1 source of development info of star citizen.
[video=youtube;DihoQr2Kzuo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DihoQr2Kzuo[/video]
Like Ed and star citizen is good comparison of game development.
both over promise. But ED's promises are heavily grounded to realities of game development
While star citizen's promises arent grounded to anything.Its the personification of ideas guy game.
Its just shame that general public doesnt care about whats possible and what isnt. They only care about what sounds cool and the more vague you can make the idea the better it will sell.
I really don't want to continue the heavy criticism from last few pages, but do you really expect a story half as good as the one in the Witcher 3 from a person responsible for Wing Commander: The Horror... um, sorry, Wing Commander: The Movie?
I'd be happy with that. I backed at $35 I think, so I haven't got a lot at stake. If I got a half decent SP spaceship/FPS hybrid I'd be satisfied. Unfortunately I don't think everyone else would be
I'd be happy with that. I backed at $35 I think, so I haven't got a lot at stake. If I got a half decent SP spaceship/FPS hybrid I'd be satisfied. Unfortunately I don't think everyone else would be
would be a good start tho even if too small to hold peoples attention for long. At least it could be a quality base to expand from. Hell with the support, emotional and financial CRoberts got he had the chance to create something awesome here. He just blew it because he is himself. Really a shame.
I'd be happy with that. I backed at $35 I think, so I haven't got a lot at stake. If I got a half decent SP spaceship/FPS hybrid I'd be satisfied. Unfortunately I don't think everyone else would be
If it ever releases the Goons will have a field day crashing cheap starter ships into the whales' expensive jpegs. The wailing and gnashing of teeth will be so loud it will be heard on Mars.
Agreed - it'll be interesting how they approach this rather thorny subject. They must be well aware (from the ED forums alone) how divisive this aspect can prove.
I think this plays into a rather nasty dilemma facing CIG. The longer they delay, the further along the rails their hype-train can trundle. So whatever they release always needs to be 'better'. Leading to more delays, for which they need more funding, so they promise yet more ships and shiny. And so it goes on.
Of course they could release 'early' (ahem), but it's likely that they've already taken as many uncritical pre-orders as they can, and subsequent purchasers will likely wait for reviews and (new) player feedback before committing. And those who backed the game to get it to 'completion' will then also have a chance to review their investment against their return - a 35$ computer game.
I really do hope they produce something worth playing, but I just can't see things going smoothly somehow.
No, it is not irrelevant, and you cant weasel your way out of it like that. When I order a hundred cookies, I expect a hundred cookies. And I expect them by the promised time. I do most certainly not expect a handful of cookies, years later than promised, with a note saying "but they taste great and more might come!". Its absurd. The fact you even write it down is weird. Besides, there currently are zero options and gameplay anyway. We know for a fact we wont get the promised 100 systems (along with many other lies) and you cannot compensate for that with stuff you are just hoping for. And no, pointing towards the 'netcode' (which we were promised would be Super Amazingly Awesome EVERY SINGLE NEXT PATCH) is not an excuse either.
We were promised a living, breathing universe of 100 systems for 2014. We now have a promise they are 'aiming' to give us five systems, with zero gameplay as of yet available, the network being in as dire a situation as it was years ago, and all you've got to counter is another pointless GIF and promises about cool stuff 'in the next patch'? Really? Well, color me unconvinced.
Yes, Cryengine can make pretty pictures. Everyone knows that. Now where is the game we were promised.
Kickstarter "release dates" and "intentions" are just estimates given to get the ball rolling. The basic push to start the journey, the path is allways uncertain even with most cautius planning.
As much as game studios have tried to follow formulas to minimize delays, when developing ambitious games is allways at a high risk. That's why some games can even get canceled after years of development. It's a volatile and unpredictable path the search for "fun" even with tried formula, and much more when making games that push technological boundaries.
Every game is bound to change and most certainly gets delayed as the game scope increases and design decisions are redone for whatever reason.
The change from "100 systems planned at launch" to a smaller, but much more detailed aproachwas clarified years ago by Chris Roberts in a 10FTC back in 2015:
Just to let you know, when it says 100 complete star systems, we don’t mean we’re delivering 100 complete star systems tomorrow or all in one day because you know, we got to a bunch of our star systems in our stretch goals, and also some of these star systems are to be explored and found
. So, our focus is to get the core UEE space and the surrounding systems. The ones that you see will be on the star map, which we’ll be revealing and sharing on the web next month, you’ll have the first couple of key systems where you’ll be able to adventure in, in more detail on this star map and then the other ones will be more high level, and then as we get into them, we’ll build them up. But, that’s the plan is to start with one system and then move our way out. We’re sort of laying the groundwork for that. So that’s our plan, that’s how we’ll roll them out, but not committing to specific dates though cause I’ve learned that issue.
Question@14m10s[spoiler][video=youtube_share;VGTj2iWkS-8]https://youtu.be/VGTj2iWkS-8?t=14m9s[/video][/spoiler]
Most engaged backers that have followed Star Citizen development closely already knew that and understand it perfectly, that's why the "community" has no problems with this "announcement" in the GameStar Article or see it as a "downgrade" to the game they pledged for.
you presume too mutch.
How can you do the tansition with a speed of 300 m/s?
you will need several minutes even to go from low orbit to atmosphere. You will have the same problem Frontier had to face for planetary landing.
Ever tried to reach the surphace of a planet from orbit in elite using the normal speed?
Good luck.
Ship's can travel way faster than 300m/s but the right answer is Quantum Travel which was already demoed extensively by CIG, I linked a gif some posts before and add it here again as an example:
You're making one big assumption, so let me dispel it for you: just because they are making ten times fewer systems than promised doesn't mean they will be better and more fleshed out than if all of them were released at once.
There's an equal, or if you take into account CIG's glacial development pace, far bigger probability that all those systems will be barren and devoid of content.
Ofc it means, the design changed from a Freelancer type of aproach (cutscene landings and a planet = small cosntricted location) to fully fledged planetoids with seamless traveling from space to ground with detailed scenerie to explore and interact (as demoed in gamescom and citizencom).
CIG development is far from glacial imo. They already have in place game mechanics that are extremely hard to do. Namely the 64bit large maps that allow for the seamless maps and traveling without loading screens, physics grids to allow for players to walk inside and around (eva) their ships seamlessly making it possible for engaging gameplay like ship boarding or multicrew group play. Detailed First Person Mode with clothing weapons etc. These are things that are normaly not done by other games because of how hard they are to do technicaly, they require a lot of time and money to pull it off and Star Citizen as got that done already.
ATV's is CIG way to share it's game development progress. Like all game development things are bound to change. Anyway it servers a great porpose in giving visibility to the game with some videos reaching the 200k views. No bad at all.
And making this list also raises the question what exactly you are talking about. 3.0 or the end product of Star Citizen which is for all we know decades away? Because 3.0 will only have moons, no planets, there certainly will be no wildlife and I dont think cities have been announced for 3.0 either. So I m a little confused what we are actually discussing when reading your post. Anyway, your claims stand......awaiting clarification or backpaddling.
3 moons (some with atmosphere and fauna- some vegetation has been seen in clips) plus the big asteroid (Nyx) with the underground pirate base city called Levsky (demoed in gamescom 2016 and shown in the 3.0 build that Gamestar played.
I also dont fail to notice that GameStar is unable to verify nor confirm any of the currently discussed problems surrounding Star Citizen. They claim to have played 3.0 themselves. They did NOT (with what I was able to read) see a seamless planetary landing with their own eyes at least they dont state that part particulary. Instead they put in vague descriptions of "how awesome it is to see a planet from space then walk on it minutes later"....no seamless landing mentioned. They couple this with the devs claim that "every planetary landing is seamless with no loading screen" but again....this isnt what THEY saw or experienced with their own eyes while playing 3.0.
They actually did. It's right there mentioned in the first part of the article:
Demo, with some in-depth look at systems (AI, Planets...)
Gamestar visited Foundry 42 Frankfurt to play a preview of Alpha 3.0. In the beginning text, the author asks the question, why F42 my have delayed Squadron 42. More about that later.
The Demo starts at GrimHex. (this is a space station in outter space*) The Player wakes up and uses the new mobi-glass to equip himself with some clothes.
They walk outside to the landing pads where a Gladius waits
They get introduced to the new use-System and item 2.0, where they can control many things more detailed (entering the ship, HUDS...)
With item 2.0 CIG can make every object in the world interactive by giving it properties.
With the new Star Map via the mobi-glass, they now can fly to POIs instead of the old marker on the hud.
Todd Pappy on the answer after the Strechtgoal Levski: "When C.R. makes a stretch goal, that means it has to be in the game in the given time. Often it depends on how important it is for C.R. Let's say, it's very important for him. The NPC Miles Eckhart, too."
Via the Star Map they jump to the edge of the atmosphere of Delamar and are then flying down manual. During the atmospheric entry, flames start appearing around the hull. This depends on your speed and the size of your ship.
A new flight control system shows the way to a landing pad on the highly detailed Levski landing zone, where are now also garages, where you can get your ground vehicles.
There really is, the PU map is huge and checking out all the ship's, quests, space stations, derelic ships, ship wrecks, com'arrays, refuel stations, secret probes, asteroid fields, easter eggs will take some considerable time. So much that I doubt anyone here as seen them all.
You, personally, get lost in your ships? Or did you just add that because it otherwise sounds a bit... drab?
Well, he just said you can get lost exploring the rooms of your ship, so maybe we're just having different expectations.
You seem to like to cram fluff words into your statement without regards for what it actually stands. Getting in and out of vehicles seamlessly....why is that such an accomplishment or out of the ordinary you have to use that term? Games allow you to get in and out of vehicles without a loading screen for decades now.
It is special because of how the Ships are modeled inside and out, allowing for players to walk inside and around them, engage in fps, use turrets etc. The seamlessly in and out of the ships is allowed by the physics grid tech which normaly doesn't exist in other games, making the vehicles moving maps where gamers can interact. (see vid above)
That's a huge derelict ship in a huge map with millions of km's. In that derelict ship you can loot stuff that earns you credits that you can then use to repair/refuel your ship, buy armour, weapons or stylish civil/bandit clothings. Some of them are tied to quest chains also. Exploring them is a lot of fun and immersive experience.
The change from "100 systems planned at launch" to a smaller, but much more detailed aproachwas clarified years ago by Chris Roberts in a 10FTC back in 2015:
Just to let you know, when it says 100 complete star systems, we don’t mean we’re delivering 100 complete star systems tomorrow or all in one day because you know, we got to a bunch of our star systems in our stretch goals, and also some of these star systems are to be explored and found
Its nonsense. At the time it was taken as "It will take a while, and it will take multiple alpha-patches to get all 100 systems online". It was never taken as "you'll have to wait 3-4 years for a fraction of what we promised." Its classic revisionism where SC promotors always expected everything in hindsight. If 3.0 will turn out to be terrible in many ways, JohnMice will be here to tell us how everyone always knew it would be terrible, and that [insert next patch] will surely fix it all. After the fact. The present is forever disappointing, as was always known, and the never arriving future is always going to be glorious.
"Yeah, everyone always knew it would be five systems at launch."
"Yeah, everyone always knew that it would launch after 2017"
"Yeah, everyone always knew that 'netcode' would still be broken after 3.0."
"Yeah, everyone always knew that core stretch goals would be broken."
Followed by the usual "Game development is always hard to predict" (answer: true, but that doesnt excuse the bizarre clusterfarce that is SC, which is NOT normal in game development), and the "but the pipelines are now in place to create content super fast! Just wait till next patch!"
Its so obvious its painful. Look how he ends by portraying the hugeness of space in SC by using the metric 'kilometer'. Noone sincerely and honesty does that, its a cheap ploy. Millions of kilometers is nothing in space, and it means nothing in the discussion. Its just an attempt to wow people with a big-sounding number. Although I will admit the concept of looting derelict ships definitely is fun.
21:20 is SC in a nutshell. A guy shooting a spinning object in SC wondering "If it has enough force to slow it down." Its all pretend-play with dramatic music.
Hasn't the amount of times you ultras, still after all this time, find yourselves using terms like 'ATV', 'clip', 'demo' and 'preview' started ringing any alarm bells yet, don't you yearn to say 'in game'?
They actually did. It's right there mentioned in the first part of the article:
Demo, with some in-depth look at systems (AI, Planets...)
Gamestar visited Foundry 42 Frankfurt to play a preview of Alpha 3.0. In the beginning text, the author asks the question, why F42 my have delayed Squadron 42. More about that later.
The Demo starts at GrimHex. (this is a space station in outter space*) The Player wakes up and uses the new mobi-glass to equip himself with some clothes.
They walk outside to the landing pads where a Gladius waits
They get introduced to the new use-System and item 2.0, where they can control many things more detailed (entering the ship, HUDS...)
With item 2.0 CIG can make every object in the world interactive by giving it properties.
With the new Star Map via the mobi-glass, they now can fly to POIs instead of the old marker on the hud.
Todd Pappy on the answer after the Strechtgoal Levski: "When C.R. makes a stretch goal, that means it has to be in the game in the given time. Often it depends on how important it is for C.R. Let's say, it's very important for him. The NPC Miles Eckhart, too."
Via the Star Map they jump to the edge of the atmosphere of Delamar and are then flying down manual. During the atmospheric entry, flames start appearing around the hull. This depends on your speed and the size of your ship.
A new flight control system shows the way to a landing pad on the highly detailed Levski landing zone, where are now also garages, where you can get your ground vehicles.
Have you seen the Starfarer ship? Everyone gets lost in that ship at least once. Even a Catterpillar or a Retaliator can get confusing to walk around.
It is special because of how the Ships are modeled inside and out, allowing for players to walk inside and around them, engage in fps, use turrets etc. The seamlessly in and out of the ships is allowed by the physics grid tech which normaly doesn't exist in other games, making the vehicles moving maps where gamers can interact. (see vid above)
I m sorry that translation holds no value because after checking the source that was available to me I cannot confirm a 1:1 translation. Instead the author of the translation has simply "interpreted" what he read as is apparent in his choice of words. The sources I was able to view did NOT state actually doing a seamless atmospheric transition. Some of the source was hidden behind a paywall so I cant be 100% sure but after reading the "translation" I seriously doubt it was an unbiased work and not another way to "shill" for the project by implementing his own interpretation of what he read. When I do translations I dont care if the stuff I translate supports or undermines my own voice. The goal is to give a direct and correct translation of what is provided in order for the audience to be able to form their own opinion. The Author in that reddit thread denies that by describing what he read, not doing a 1:1 translation. Maybe he "tries" to stay neutral....still doesnt match the stuff I was able to read in said article which for me discredits the whole thread.
I would like a link to the source material so I could verify what the GameStar team really writes but the author of the reddit thread only provides a link (which I shared a few pages back) to the screenshot gallery of said article. And in my opinion he just describes in his "translation" what he sees on said screenshots.
I have seen the Starfarer in videos and like every new map in every game you need to orient yourself at first until going around becomes second nature. The Starfarer is big yes but its just another level. Like all ships really are. Just levels. You walk through them and open/close doors and whenever you take control you "become" the ship or one of its appendage (like the turret) which is cleverly masked by the "transition phase". Maybe its impressive that a moving room allows you to run around in while the whole thing moves through an even bigger room but thats all thats happening here. I stand by my original statement. The use of "seamless" is technically correct but it doesnt make the ship-player interaction any more special then it did for countless games years ago.
Star Citizen at the moment is often mentioned for its gigantic playing field.....all those billions upon billions of square miles or whatever the result they come up with by doing adventurous calculations. In the end it ll provide the exact same thing that Elite does.....a gigantic playing field which is as shallow as a puddle. Only in ED its bad while in SC its great. In addition to the fact that Star Citizen cannot even "start" to compare to ED in terms of size....seriously. I understand that writing "a fraction of the size of EDs galaxy" isnt really impressive but simply slapping a whole bunch of zeros to a number and try to sell it as being bigger? Its mostly empty space with nothing to do. And it being "full of content" is again maybe a future version but not what we see at the moment and again.....3.0 wont change that.
Its nonsense. At the time it was taken as "It will take a while, and it will take multiple alpha-patches to get all 100 systems online". It was never taken as "you'll have to wait 3-4 years for a fraction of what we promised." Its classic revisionism where SC promotors always expected everything in hindsight. .
And no doubt the ultras will eventually claim that everybody of course knew what he meant back then already /scoff. Funny because I remember the heated arguments years back very clearly
"Yeah, everyone always knew it would be five systems at launch."
"Yeah, everyone always knew that it would launch after 2017"
"Yeah, everyone always knew that 'netcode' would still be broken after 3.0."
"Yeah, everyone always knew that core stretch goals would be broken."
.
Yeah, everyone always knew this, except maybe one Mr Roberts. The only other explaination would be that he may have been lying, just to keep the hype train running. But the creator of Wing Commander would never do that...
Pedant mode engaged: fauna is animals, not vegetation.
It is special because of how the Ships are modeled inside and out, allowing for players to walk inside and around them, engage in fps, use turrets etc.
Expand on the "etc", because you already listed everything that's currently possible. Unless you want to add "sit on toilet" or something equally inane.
Expand on the "etc", because you already listed everything that's currently possible. Unless you want to add "sit on toilet" or something equally inane.
Nah, I doubt he really claims there will be animals. I do feel that a barren shrubbery isn't quite what people mean with 'a planet with flora', but the same goes for many other terms ofcourse.
