I wonder if this therefore foreshadows us getting "new diving equipment", or... proper exploration mechanics with which to find them
I got myself all excited now...
Elite in Rollingstone magazine
- Thread starter Cmdr Ssyx
- Start date
I wonder if this therefore foreshadows us getting "new diving equipment", or... proper exploration mechanics with which to find them
I got myself all excited now...
I read it, comprehended it and I am still disgusted.
A soldier makes a choice to join the army and serve. A slave has no choice - There is no comparison that takes away from the disrespect his words show towards anyone who has given their service to their country. The terms of service for a slave included the right to be sold to whoever the owner wants... In what way is this comparable to a contract when joining the military? Non.
On this matter we disagree, best to leave it there as his comments are now being read by members of the armed forces via twitter and other social media.
I know absolutely nothing about the way Roman slavery worked, but DB seemed to be implying that it was very different to our more contemporary type of slavery - namely that Roman slaves did have a choice and served until their debts were paid off or for a fixed term.
In reading this, I gather that we're meant to try to suspend our deeply ingrained disgust at modern slavery to be able to talk frankly about ancient historical slavery and where we have parallels today. Interestingly, the way DB is talking, it sounds like Roman slavery doesn't have anything in common with modern slavery, if the closest parallel is not that, but the army.
And, however uncomfortable it is for us, history is history. If Roman slavery and joining the army share similarities, then we can't do anything about that, and it shouldn't be inflammatory to talk about it, since it's evidently an historical fact.
Clearly not.
As a former conscript (though volunteering for a while longer afterwards), I found the comparison rather apt, even though a little cheeky and, I think, intentionally uncomfortable. DB's whole point is that certain kinds of Roman slaves went into slavery deliberately - into a kind of life where certain choices will be made for you no matter what you think about them. It may not be the best analogy ever made, but certain aspects - fixed terms and time of service, loss of certain rights, being sent wherever your owner wants you to be - are more comparable than I personally like to admit.
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Interesting article. David Braben, the more I read from him, is a hit and a miss with me. He's obviously an intelligent and knowledgeable person but he is also prone to delusions of grandeur - in the sense that his head is sometimes too far in dream land and that results in what he says being at odds with the reality of both his own game and the things he interprets in his own way such as the significance of story telling in films, books, TV and games.
I also dislike how he overstretches his ambitions as a games creator - he tends to fancy himself as someone who is conducting a social experiment with Elite Dangerous instead of what his real job is/should be: to make a good video game first and foremost. Play scientist and social philosopher later after the foundation of your game actually resembles a coherent and entertaining video game. The more I see/read from him the more I can see where ED gets both its strongest elements and its most terrible faults and they both come from David Braben.
I also dislike how he overstretches his ambitions as a games creator - he tends to fancy himself as someone who is conducting a social experiment with Elite Dangerous instead of what his real job is/should be: to make a good video game first and foremost. Play scientist and social philosopher later after the foundation of your game actually resembles a coherent and entertaining video game. The more I see/read from him the more I can see where ED gets both its strongest elements and its most terrible faults and they both come from David Braben.
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Thats your choice then. You obviously aren't going to be swayed by reasonableness.
No you didn't comprehend it. Some Roman slaves chose to become a slave to pay off a debt or for other reasons such as to make money, they didn't have to, it wasn't forced upon them. Maybe do some research on Roman slavery before you say anything else.
Only in you're opinion... I am entitled to and have my own opinion. But you seem to want to question my intelligence or at least my ability to comprehend... I would question yours too for not seeing what I find obvious but as with anything in this community, you either agree with the herd or get told you are wrong... How immature.
Some, is the key word from your post...
You also seem to want to question my ability to comprehend what I read and yet here you are attempting to get me to accept your comprehension... So much for having an opinion... You've just reinforced what I posted above... Well done.
EDIT: Maybe you should learn to accept other's right to have an opinion other then your own and stop insulting another person's intelligence...
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It is not my comprehension, it is about historical fact. I am pretty sure what DB was talking about is exactly what I am talking about.
You can have an opinion, but when facts tell you that opinion is wrong, do you continue to support that incorrect opinion?
So account for this then please:
I can post countless references from historians on the subject as opposed to the thoughts of a mathematician.
No legal personhood - no right's. In what way does this resemble the contract between a soldier and the army they serve in?
What branch did you serve in? In my time I had a "right" to do what I was told. And if I didn't I was certainly punished - either physically or the more "legal" way. And as a volunteer I agreed to this I suppose. A military unit is a unit not a group of individuals doing whatever they want whenever they want. You function as a organized group to survive. That's the Military.
In any case I think DB made an analogy and, having served for many years, I understand the analogy, think it is somewhat apt, take it as intended, and am not offended by it.
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I've never experienced either type of servitude and neither have you.
Why don't you ask someone with experience of one of them?
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...one-magazine?p=5741945&viewfull=1#post5741945
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...one-magazine?p=5742029&viewfull=1#post5742029
We Can't Stop Here, This is Thargoid Country..
I will read this and get back to you but David does not seem to be talking about bonded slaves...
I did my time in the cadets then got interested in computers. My brother however served for 15 years in the navy. Hes currently laughing at Davids article and thinks the guy is an idiot who should maybe join the army and learn what it means to GIVE your service as opposed to having it forced from you.
You seem to think you know me personally to make such a comment. I assure you do not know me nor the things I have done in my life and I would ask you to stop making assumptions before this goes any further.
Perhaps discuss the post and not the poster.
David Braben: "Whatever you do don't mention the army. I mentioned them once but I think I got away with it."
Hi Bran.
You have clearly taken this very personally.
And I recognise that you are extremely serious about this so please take what I'm about to say as being genuinely friendly and an attempt to be helpful:
I would suggest you take a breather and come back in a day.
I'm not saying you are right or wrong but it's obvious to all in this thread that you are very angry right now and when I've been like that it's always helped to take a bit of time out and come back to it later.
Hope that doesn't wind you up.
You have clearly taken this very personally.
And I recognise that you are extremely serious about this so please take what I'm about to say as being genuinely friendly and an attempt to be helpful:
I would suggest you take a breather and come back in a day.
I'm not saying you are right or wrong but it's obvious to all in this thread that you are very angry right now and when I've been like that it's always helped to take a bit of time out and come back to it later.
Hope that doesn't wind you up.
Not to beat a dead horse (and I did add a bit to my post just after you quoted it) you are giving your service and agree to it all before hand. Can anyone really be surprised that you do as you are told in the Military - or eventually expect others to do as you tell them. Do it or pay a price? Hopefully no one is so naive to think otherwise.
Again - as stated and intended by DB the analogy is apt. Not perfect. Relax.
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