Frontier, what's your goal here?

[Riverside]

That's what I'm thinking as well. Unless he was running shieldless, though I've never seen a shieldless conda NPC.



Sure there is. There's no NPC persistence. When's the last time you were interdicted by a NPC with low hull?

I'm not denying that the spawn-in-front-of-station thing is a bug (or at least seems to be), but a cutter popping a conda from one collision?
I'm not believing that without video evidence.

A Harmless Conda could be shieldless (I've seen these in a RES, I've not been chased by one, because of my rank).

If you are interdicted by an NPC, you fight them off, they jump away & you scan the wake & give chase their hull & shield condition persist. There may be other scenarios where this happens too.

 

[GraXXoR]

OP?
You were looking for deep and meaningful gameplay where causality is followed through?

ROFL

This ain't Angry Birds, you know.

 

[NeilF]

ED Gameplay, Episode 277: pirate has interdicted my Cuttuer on the way to a station. I boost, boost, jump and drop into the station. Heading to the station, pirate Anaconda drops in right in front of me, collision, pirate blows up, now I'm Wanted, security swarms me and blows up my Cutter before I can jump away. Another great ED moment. Class 8A shields might as well have been 1E. Down in about 3 seconds. 36m rebuy, lost cargo and waste of time for what? If Frontier wants to encourage people to find other ways to spend their time, you're doing a fine job.

Frontier, what is the purpose of creating gameplay that plays out as above? Why would you have station security destroy a player's ship because they unintentionally destroyed a Wanted pirate that was trying to attack them? What possible purpose does that serve? Is that 'working as intended'? Is it 'realistic' to have things like this happen to players? Or are you sitting in your cubicle giggling because you irritated someone? Yes, I continue to play the game, mostly on the momentum of the time I've invested and relationship with people I play with, but each such episode reduces my interest, and when people ask, I tell them not to waste their time with ED.

So what's your goal with this game? Are you trying to create a game that the greatest number of people enjoy playing or a game that insists on playing 'Gotcha' with players? I really do not understand Frontier's gameplay philosophy. Care to enlighten us? Or maybe Frontier just doesn't care? Love it or leave it........and we'll censor any 'goodbye' post you make? Is that how to build a customer base? [wacko]

If you'd scanned him before ramming him all would have been OK of course... But yes, the gameplay is a bit lacking there!

 

[ChiefRedCloud]

ED Gameplay, Episode 277: pirate has interdicted my Cuttuer on the way to a station. I boost, boost, jump and drop into the station. Heading to the station, pirate Anaconda drops in right in front of me, collision, pirate blows up, now I'm Wanted, security swarms me and blows up my Cutter before I can jump away. Another great ED moment. Class 8A shields might as well have been 1E. Down in about 3 seconds. 36m rebuy, lost cargo and waste of time for what? If Frontier wants to encourage people to find other ways to spend their time, you're doing a fine job.

Frontier, what is the purpose of creating gameplay that plays out as above? Why would you have station security destroy a player's ship because they unintentionally destroyed a Wanted pirate that was trying to attack them? What possible purpose does that serve? Is that 'working as intended'? Is it 'realistic' to have things like this happen to players? Or are you sitting in your cubicle giggling because you irritated someone? Yes, I continue to play the game, mostly on the momentum of the time I've invested and relationship with people I play with, but each such episode reduces my interest, and when people ask, I tell them not to waste their time with ED.

So what's your goal with this game? Are you trying to create a game that the greatest number of people enjoy playing or a game that insists on playing 'Gotcha' with players? I really do not understand Frontier's gameplay philosophy. Care to enlighten us? Or maybe Frontier just doesn't care? Love it or leave it........and we'll censor any 'goodbye' post you make? Is that how to build a customer base? [wacko]

While I do not agree with your angry response, I do think the AI in this instance needs some looking at. Question, was the Pirate an AI or Human? Which ever it was pretty brazen to make such a move. My opinion as to the stations response would be to blast the, known to them as they can scan quicker and better (assumedly) than us, the Pirate that had violated their perimeter. Then you and your ship would be temporarily seized till your story is proven. Then a fine or reprieve could be issued. Another question, Did you fire on the pirate or just, unintentionally, ram them?

Perhaps my thoughts can not be implemented due to the complexity of it but still I think you should not have been dealt a death blow unless you were perceived as a direct threat to the station.

Chief

 

[Aashenfox]

working as intended.

you were involved in an fatal accident. since you were speeding you became wanted, and as you have seen an a8 shield is equivalent to a paper hat if a station decides to fire on you. the moral of your story is *don't speed* near stations. if you are new then sorry, nothing warns you about the severity of this offence. it has been said a million times in the forum if this helps.

the severity is 'justified' because some players used to ram unsuspecting players to death at the mail slot. it was tested that at speeds below 100 m/s ramming is very unlikely to cause destruction, so this was set as the limit. if you collide with someone and are over the limit, you're guilty so ... *don't speed*.

the follow up of this story is that those same players now sit in suicidewinders at stations waiting to smash into speeding cmdrs, sacrifying some peanuts to watch some uncaring, big and expensive ship blow up in the most ridiculous way, so ... *don't speed*.

of course in solo/private this doesn't happen, but laws are the same (you know, one galaxy to rule all modes!) and accidents are still possible so ... *speed at your own risk*.

don't look at me that way, i didn't 'intend' this. yw.

This is a good post overall, because it describes perfectly what every open player should know, but...

They don't get to see the other ship blow up (which would be almost justifiable as a reason to do it, lol) cos they're looking at the rebuy screen by then I assume, so they don't even have that reason. It's plain malicious, and you think that's how the speed limit implementation was intended to work (you said working as intended)? Come on, it needs revisiting, op is actually right on this one, even if was a bit embellished as a story.

 

[osser]

Here's what I've been seeing:
Traveling around a system carrying cargo.
pirate interdicts me.
I submit and escape. (low wake)
same pirate interdicts me again.
I submit and escape again. (low wake)
pirate does not continue to chase.
However if i drop from SC for any reason (USS) or anywhere in the system the pirate is there waiting to ambush me. without fail.

 

[Riverside]

Here's what I've been seeing:
Traveling around a system carrying cargo.
pirate interdicts me.
I submit and escape. (low wake)
same pirate interdicts me again.
I submit and escape again. (low wake)
pirate does not continue to chase.
However if i drop from SC for any reason (USS) or anywhere in the system the pirate is there waiting to ambush me. without fail.

If you can predict it you can anticipate it. Drop into a USS known to have police in it, or a station, wait for the NPC to spawn & let the NPCs duke it out.

 

[znôrt]

It's plain malicious, and you think that's how the speed limit implementation was intended to work (you said working as intended)? Come on, it needs revisiting, op is actually right on this one, even if was a bit embellished as a story.

it's not my opinion, it actually happened that way there's some megathread buried somewhere ...

the reason is that it is not viable (far too complex) for an algorithm to pinpoint the culprit in a collision. even a human witness might have a hard time. the solution might not be appealing but it's simple and it works 100% in making players immune to station ramming ... as long as they do observe the speed limit. if you have a better idea just shoot, but there has been a lot of debate on this. thanks to the speed limit, it's forgotten history. well, it was until now!

 

[Aashenfox]

it's not my opinion, it actually happened that way there's some megathread buried somewhere ...

the reason is that it is not viable (far too complex) for an algorithm to pinpoint the culprit in a collision. even a human witness might have a hard time. the solution might not be appealing but it's simple and it works 100% in making players immune to station ramming ... as long as they do observe the speed limit. if you have a better idea just shoot, but there has been a lot of debate on this. thanks to the speed limit, it's forgotten history. well, it was until now!

I don't believe the two issues are linked. I appreciate that collisions are near impossible to resolve, however, I dispute that this had been considered necessarily when the speed limit was implemented, hence the speed limit needs revisiting as a method to prevent griefing, due to the fact it has failed in its task, it must face deletion or escape to the matrix.

 

[znôrt]

I don't believe the two issues are linked. I appreciate that collisions are near impossible to resolve, however, I dispute that this had been considered necessarily when the speed limit was implemented, hence the speed limit needs revisiting as a method to prevent griefing, due to the fact it has failed in its task, it must face deletion or escape to the matrix.

it has not failed. you don't see 10 posts a week anymore of people getting rammed to death at stations.

now you only see a few posts a month of people mindlessly speeding and getting creamed. ok, a bit more since ps4 unleashed. that could be addressed by convenient in game warning about how serious this offence is.

but ... ok, delete it. how would you solve it?

 

[Aashenfox]

Still thinking about it.

 

[Heavenly-Hammer]

1) If the ship jumped right in front of you immediately upon dropping out, you can ticket it.

Can you? Because this happened to me once. I was at maybe 50% hull and interdicted a ship. Winning the interdiction I boosted towards him and his wing mate dropped in right in front of me, resulting in a collision and insta-death. I could have sent in a ticket?

I remember it distinctly because it was one of my only PvE deaths in years and felt like .

 

[znôrt]

Still thinking about it.

can't find sandro's original thread. the change was introduced in 1.3
for your leisure here is some summary footage on the issue:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...eo-archive-and-lesson-in-crime-and-punishment

 

[CMDR Ellegon]

ED Gameplay, Episode 277: pirate has interdicted my Cuttuer on the way to a station. I boost, boost, jump and drop into the station. Heading to the station, pirate Anaconda drops in right in front of me, collision, pirate blows up, now I'm Wanted, security swarms me and blows up my Cutter before I can jump away. Another great ED moment. Class 8A shields might as well have been 1E. Down in about 3 seconds. 36m rebuy, lost cargo and waste of time for what? If Frontier wants to encourage people to find other ways to spend their time, you're doing a fine job.

You were taken out by the station, because you rammed somebody while inside the no-fire zone and exceeding the speed limit by far. I guess to blow up an NPC Anaconda just by collision you were going around 400 m/s?

If you would have adhered to the speed limit when entering the no-fire zone, you would have been fine. You knew you had a pirate on your heels, so you knew he was likely to drop out of supercruise close to you. In that scenario, I usually wait for the guy outside the no fire zone with fighter deployed and guns armed. Easy money, as the security ships will swarm in to assist in seconds. If you are unarmed, just drift into the no-fire zone at less than 100 m/s and watch security take out the bad guy.

BTW: both the speed limit and the super-strong station guns were put in place to counter gankers exploiting game mechanics in and around stations.

Frontier, what is the purpose of creating gameplay that plays out as above? Why would you have station security destroy a player's ship because they unintentionally destroyed a Wanted pirate that was trying to attack them? What possible purpose does that serve? Is that 'working as intended'? Is it 'realistic' to have things like this happen to players? Or are you sitting in your cubicle giggling because you irritated someone? Yes, I continue to play the game, mostly on the momentum of the time I've invested and relationship with people I play with, but each such episode reduces my interest, and when people ask, I tell them not to waste their time with ED.

Use the forum search to find out about the reason for the speed limit. You ignored the rules, you paid. Unfortunate, but not unfair.

So what's your goal with this game? Are you trying to create a game that the greatest number of people enjoy playing or a game that insists on playing 'Gotcha' with players? I really do not understand Frontier's gameplay philosophy. Care to enlighten us? Or maybe Frontier just doesn't care? Love it or leave it........and we'll censor any 'goodbye' post you make? Is that how to build a customer base? [wacko]

Elite can be a very hard and brutal game sometimes, it surely does nobody any favours. If you cannot deal with that and correct your game-play where you made a mistake, than ED might not be the right game for you. Frontier needs to balance the game to be fun for the highest percentage of players possible, which is not an easy task - and they do not always get it right. Overall, however, they are doing a reasonable job in my opinion.

"Farewell" posts are typically only censored if they are a rant without further merit or base for discussion.

 

[znôrt]

Can you? Because this happened to me once. I was at maybe 50% hull and interdicted a ship. Winning the interdiction I boosted towards him and his wing mate dropped in right in front of me, resulting in a collision and insta-death. I could have sent in a ticket?

i wouldn't think so, there is nothing wrong in anyone dropping in front of you, so that's just a sad coincidence resulting in a mid-void collision. unless there's a bug that consistently produces that, it's just bad luck.

however frontier support is famous for leniency, you can send a ticket for anything, and if you whine enough, who knows ...

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Personally I love when pirates follow me to stations or outposts - outposts especially.
I'll make a bee-line for that No Fire Zone, and I'm perfectly happy to sit there.

If the pirate is dumb enough to open fire, the station takes care of them real fast.
If it's at an outpost, even better, because we rarely get to see Outpost Defenses fire - if you've never noticed, they're on little orbital platforms around the Outpost, and they light up the void quite nicely.

Of course, this is assuming I'm flying something relatively harmless - like a Type-# ship. My other ships are all well suited to defend themselves, in which case, I'll hit the breaks and smoke a pirate before docking.

 

[XW_Ziggy]

After all this time, this stupid topic keeps coming up, thread after thread, week after week.

When will FDev fix this issue? It's clearly unintuitive; You should NOT get a bounty for firing on a wanted criminal! They are wanted whether you scan them or not. More importantly, how do all the law enforcement in the area know that your scan has finished or not. The mechanic is completely stupid and makes no sense. There's no credible argument for why it works the way it does, and no credible lore for why it's even possible for the law-enforcement to know whether your scan has finished or not.

Everyone learns to be patient eventually, but this is cruel and worthless mechanic that catches out new players all the time, whilst wasting the time of everyone else and causing countless "bug reports" and threads like this for no discernable reason other than "FDev haven't bothered to change it or explain why it is the way it is".

Puh-lease, FDev - update this tiresome mechanic so that I can shoot back at an attacker without having to wait 5-10 seconds for a pointless scan that sactions my retaliation.

 

[Captain Willard]

After all this time, this stupid topic keeps coming up, thread after thread, week after week.

When will FDev fix this issue? It's clearly unintuitive; You should NOT get a bounty for firing on a wanted criminal! They are wanted whether you scan them or not. More importantly, how do all the law enforcement in the area know that your scan has finished or not. The mechanic is completely stupid and makes no sense. There's no credible argument for why it works the way it does, and no credible lore for why it's even possible for the law-enforcement to know whether your scan has finished or not.

Everyone learns to be patient eventually, but this is cruel and worthless mechanic that catches out new players all the time, whilst wasting the time of everyone else and causing countless "bug reports" and threads like this for no discernable reason other than "FDev haven't bothered to change it or explain why it is the way it is".

Puh-lease, FDev - update this tiresome mechanic so that I can shoot back at an attacker without having to wait 5-10 seconds for a pointless scan that sactions my retaliation.

I disagree. It's why we have so many scanners.
As far as the npc's spawning on top of the station, I know this one well. Like the op had one spawn between me and the slot, luckily I wasn't speeding, another spawned beside my python and rammed me, shields to 10%. The best, lining up the slot and my beluga just exploded. I was speechless.
I'm kinda on the fence as to fix this or leave it. It does make life. Interesting.

 

[XW_Ziggy]

If we have so many scanners, why do they forget the result of a previously-scanned ship from the previous instance (when dropping from SC to normal or vice-versa) and why do the law enforcement ships have to manually do 1km-range, random spot-checks with 10-second scans on everyone if they can instantly identify you as a criminal from 20km away because you fired half a second too soon on a target you'd already previously identified as "wanted"?

It's just a nonsensical, broken mechanic that doesn't have any valid basis or argument to back it up. It's immersion breaking, it doesn't fit in with the way NPC law-enforcement do everything else, It contradicts many other in-game rules related to legal/illegal activity and is completely inconsistent with the rest of the game where your actions merit you a small fine and a timed countdown to alter your behaviour pending escalation. Simply having a point-defence hit an unscanned target is grounds for every cop in the zone to instantly try and kill you. It's unbelievably dumb, IMO.

 

[DanaM]

My only expectation from this thread was an opportunity to update my Ignore list but, surprisingly, it has clarified why ED is the way it is and why it is unlikely to improve.

Simply put: ED reflects the personalities of the people who developed it.

ED was made by and for computer geeks, who often have a certain personality which includes a 'communication style' which is in evidence on the Forum and beautifully skewered in the SNL sketch "Your Company's Computer Guy." ED is the religion, and anyone who dares to suggest that it is not perfect is a blasphemer who is attacked, told to 'git good' etc. Witness the responses to this thread. Some obviously either didn't read or didn't comprehend the OP. Others were so desperate to avoid the real issue that they repeat "speed limit" like a mantra. And others are just completely malicious, like the one's suggesting "It never happened."

Many insecure computer professionals apparently like having systems that are non-intuitive (make no logical sense) and require the user to have knowledge of many little quirks (bugs) and tricks (the more the better) in order to effectively use the system. It's job security, and it allows the initiated to feel special and superior. This is why Frontier leaves so many bugs active and ignores complaints and criticism, no matter how mildly and constructively worded. ED, as it is, is truly 'working as intended'.