I'm not convinced any vision of the game will be achieved unless FD turn it into a platform that enables 3rd party developers to create add-ons.
Braben’s Vision and It’s Implications
- Thread starter Delilah
- Start date
The game can function just fine without us. We're not a part of the story. Just the (potentially avid) reader. There's no coherence because ultimately the game can play itself. We're an optional extra.
I have and take no issue with data being pulled from the game, the journal was a great move forward; API would also be good. But it can only be read, never write. Allowing anyone the ability to push into the game, will not end well. There are far too many examples where this is the case, for it to ever be a reasonable take.
Nobody ever said it did but ED is about as far away from emphasizing scientific accuracy as you can get (apart from the astronomical geography which is not too bad). Ergo no matter what Braben says, it is NOT even close to hard sci-fi.
Entirely a matter of taste, I love hard sci-fi and find it watchable, highly enjoyable and very playable (in the few games that actually offer it), the harder the better. All this is besides the point, I also find ED fun to play, I just think its totally wrong to call it hard sci-fi. Because its simply not.
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Agreed there's a risk if you allowed custom gameplay, but they could dip their feet in the water and provide custom station, planetary base, and outpost building kits as a starting point.
That would at least create a lot more variety in terms of destinations.
More daring still would be a ship design kit.
Don't hold your breath.
Agreed... to an extent. Adding content - probably not. Taking control of some basic functionality through supplied APIs - yes.
The problem is not that the game can play itself. A self-sustaining simulation is required.
I believe a huge problem is not that the player cannot affect the galaxy (in a sizable/hero way) but that the galaxy does not affect the player. It's too sterile. The player can try to build their own connections with elements of the galaxy, but the game does not really attempt to reinforce - or challenge - those connections.
For example, in the article (I only skimmed it) DB talks about the shaming aspect of slave trading. But really, other than a player's own feelings and potential comments on the forum, where is the shame? The player buys slaves in one system where they are a legal commodity and may get fined for bringing them to a system where they are an illicit commodity. Are there any systems where instead of a fine the authorities will just attack you because they consider a slave trader to be scum? Does the player acquire a lingering reputation for having traded slaves that persists in other interactions? Perhaps systems refusing to trade with you or talking down to you?
What about loyalties? After I stopped playing, I decided to give Fallout 4 a go. I was new to the series and really loved it. There are a number of paths you can take through the narrative depending on which "side" you choose to run with. I went through supporting two of them in particular. Communicating and running missions. Then came the point where I had to choose. Remaining loyal to one meant being ordered to destroy the other. It's interesting when you're in a room filled with NPCs who you had previously been supporting, finger on the trigger, pausing with this thought going through your mind, "Am I really about to do this?"
This, of course, compares a narrative-style game with one that isn't (except for when it is... kind of). But I feel that these kinds of connections could have been achieved to an extent. Alas, the extent of interaction with the numerous factions comes to little more than a numeric "reputation" slider.
The main idea of this game seems to be to flit around and sample everything without ever getting attached to anything. A wonderful window into this was the ship-transfer addition. Because of course you would be out doing some trading or something and just decide to drop into some local conflict without understanding any context of what is actually going on. And of course, one of those sides would instantly accept your help because you flipped a switch saying you'd fight for them. It does make it easy to get quickly into various things, but it's not a great way to add depth.
Of course, the really important question is... why am I even commenting on this??
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Now there are some very interesting ideas. The game would skyrocket in my estimation if they added these. It would become more of a galaxy sandbox which would suit me very well indeed, and I assume many others. It's also the type of thing that would give the game even greater longevity.
Edit: And I'd pay for the privilege.
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Just read it, and Braben actually goes into this himself. He acknlowedges that what he will never likely achieve what he wants to achieve, and all they can do is strive to make it as good as possible.
*Voice=Chiun* "Perfection is a road. Not a destination. Also, you move like a pregnant yak."
I wonder if part of the problem is that Frontier have been so successful in portraying a galaxy-wide dystopia that you can really only play as either an outright villain or an amoral profiteer if you want to interact with most of the game.
The Federation are corporate totalitarians. The Empire are basically the same without the PR department. The Alliance are basically the same but with a more effective PR department. The major independent PowerPlay characters are creepy totalitarians at best. Even the "nicer" types of independent government that aren't openly criminal or totalitarian
- as you say, disapprove of slavery and won't openly trade slaves, but it's not like it's a serious crime such as loitering or destruction of automated drones
- primarily deal with civil unrest by militarising their police forces and stomping on it (you can tell they're a "nice" faction because they use "non-lethal" weapons for it rather than "battle" weapons)
- attack other factions in self-destructive wars even if there's no territory actually at stake
- think "blowing up their rivals" is an appropriate way to win elections
(Some of that is slightly subtle in that you have to think about what the mission board effects are, but the superpowers are obvious enough that relatively few people find them desirable to pick for their PMFs, for instance)
Even if you could get more attached to any of them, would you really want to?
I think this still has to be gated through frontier; we can read, but we cannot push anything into the game world; this is very important because if you can push, you can then compromise/ break. This is a road that ends in a bad place. So sure, some tools to create cool stuff, that can be submitted for review, and then added by the developer. Remember, this is a shared game world. We cannot realistically expect it to not be immediately compromised if we can place custom assets, at any point. API. Journal, creator kits that can be used to submit concepts.
But, as much as this adds potential for much needed flavour? Which would be very cool? It's still just stalling for time; because it doesn't matter how much Frontier adds -- or even really where it comes from -- if it's ostensibly forever going to be set pieces and we simply will never be able to help shape the universe we are in, the game will dead-end.
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We cannot essentially affect anything, and ostensibly there are no long term effects from what we do. We're essentially in a modern-day version of Choose Your Own Adventure; where there is the illusion of choice, but nothing we do actually matters, because everything will forever be predetermined and will reset and negate.
Now we can't expect a "living universe" given the somewhat sandbox nature of the game; but it's getting stale all the same. It's stale because the BGS hasn't really evolved. We're still fundimentally operating in a game that hasn't, at a base mechanics level, changed since Alpha. Nothing we have done, has essentially changed anything.
Change for the sake of it, isn't of value; but without any change, stagnation and boredom set in. I dare say, it's not really the 'lack of things to do' that's really driven folks away from the game, and even perhaps the buggy mechanics - it's that whatever they've done? Never mattered.
And it should have. And It should do. The byline is "blaze your own trail" but this is entirely at odds with the game itself, because whilst we can forge ahead in whatever manner we desire, we leave no 'footprints'.
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Why is it that a reasonable reflection by the OP does nothing but draw out all the malcontents?
Elite is a better game, much better, for me than it was in 2015. Development could be faster, but it is all too human to want it all NOW, patience is a virtue that seems much more prevalent in the SC universe.
Let's see where the next 12 months will take us.
I'm absolutely happy with how it is now...and hope the development and additions, tweaks, fixes continue for a lot longer than 12 months.
Clicker
I'm struggling to understand this part. ED is a "blaze your own trail game" - what's the narrative? Second Life is a sandbox game that lets you build stuff and buy clothes for your avatar. Star citizen has walking around ships and atmospheric planets - ED is nothing like either or these. ED is like FE2 - it's a space trading game with combat.
Isn't your 'but', an argument to encourage 3rd party development?
It is possible for Elite Dangerous and the community to grow and thrive for another 5 to 10 years. This is ONLY possible if Frontier adds Space Legs (EVA), Atmospheric Landings and sandbox features to improve the core-game (in-game socialization, emergent gameplay, player groups such as guilds).
Without deeper sandbox and social tools the community will stagnate. People will complain or stop playing due to a lack of depth.
Space Legs is a new level of immersion and promised during the Kickstarter. It is like putting a game within a game, but absolutely necessary to attract new people to buy ED. These are gamers who play first-person shooters and survival games. Most of them haven't yet gotten into Elite Dangerous due to the lack of EVA.
Atmospheric landings is also a kickstarter promise. These are massive additions to the game, so Frontier should add it gradually with several major updates. Many people will buy EVA and Atmospheric Landings for sure.
Many people pledged and bought the game solely for these things that were promised. So Frontier must deliver it to retain their reputation. If Frontier doesn't add Space Legs and Atmospheric Landings then the backlash will be immense. Frontier would lose loyal fans, customers and players would leave for other space sims.
If Frontier has financial issues with Elite Dangerous they must use new strategies to generate revenue like in-game advertising, more cosmetics to customize ship interiors, personalized hangars (player housing), maybe premium membership.
Other space-sims that are coming (such as SC) should not be underestimated. Elite Dangerous must be able to hold its own ground to retain fans and the player base. Therefore EVA and atmospheric landings are vital for Elite Dangerous to survive and thrive.
In this official video The Future of Elite Dangerous (7 November 2014), 9 out of 15 developers say they want to walk around, move in zero gravity. Even Braben says he loves the idea to walk around inside the ship and space stations.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yd-m9AR7mY
I kind of agree, for now what kills the game for me are simple things, like I need to press (J) every single time I need to go somewhere.
2 - 5 jumps is ok, 25 - +800 is not, I need a navigator NPC besides me who will do these repetitive tasks.
I'm sure someone can write a programme that will randomly activate your jump drives so you don't have to
Maybe to underline this?
The notion of things like CGs to create spaces stations or bring about other significant in game outcomes... This stuff reads brilliantly, but then in the game itself? It involved buying X at Y and transporting it to Z. Or going to Z and blowing up Wanteds lining up in dedicated areas seemingly just to commit suicide. And this hasn't really changed in 2.5yrs...
It all sounds good on paper, but unfortunately in game it's all to often 2.5yr old paper thin mechanics which CMDRs are trying their best to make the most of...
And yet people are playing it.
I'm sure someone can write a programme that will randomly activate your jump drives so you don't have to
Somebody already did, Fdev told him to take it off his website, iirc.