Braben’s Vision and It’s Implications

I think what has largely driven me away is the lack of feeling that my actions actually amount to anything other than an increase/decrease in personal wealth and an uptick on my trade/combat etc levels.

I want the game make me feel like I'm part of it, much like previous versions of the game have. I like to trade but why on earth would I never start a company and employ others to do the jobs for me. At the moment I feel like a freelancer in Euro Truck Sim 2 and can't progress further unlike in ETS2 where I can actually start my own business, employ staff and improve my base of operations. Where is this in ED?

I don't feel as if the game has actually progressed much since launch. Engineers are pointless to me and feel tacked on (all I get is grief for having 1 lump of reward material in my inventory), factions just caused me to have to move my trading elsewhere as over night whole systems trade and manufacturing changed from one type to another (how??) and another up tick in being shot at for no reason other than belonging to a massive faction (it makes no sense that you get attacked so frequently just because you fly around blue space rather than red space).

The added mechanisms don't seem to be joined up. Why does everything I do have no wider effect?

And don't get me started with the 'story' that the Cannon is doing such a great job investigating. For the average player the story arc has at the moment nothing to do with them. We can't or don't have the capacity to take part. Where is the story, any story for us? I'd love to be part of it but it just comes across as a full time job combined with the fact that everything gets solved far too quickly. I'm not sure FD intended for the solutions to be found so quickly as the next bits of the story are always on hold, seemingly as they scramble around writing it.

Mission variety is missing. Its essentially the same few things to do, but things that never join up to make something bigger. Again, I don't feel doing these missions has any impact other than those mentioned earlier (cash etc).

The people playing the game are trying their hardest to make something of it, groups like the Fuel Rats have found a rewarding and interesting niche but they are an exception rather than a rule.

And then there's the whole issue of seasons, or whatever they are calling it now. No idea what is going on with these. Happening far too slowly. Maybe with the release of the PS4 version they can put more resources into actually progressing things but I'm not holding my breath.

/Sigh.
 
At least the forums haven't changed in the two or three years I've been away.

Same complaints by the same people.

If someone replies to this with "complaining about complaining" I'll have the full set.
 

Jex =TE=

Banned
I think what has largely driven me away is the lack of feeling that my actions actually amount to anything other than an increase/decrease in personal wealth and an uptick on my trade/combat etc levels.

I want the game make me feel like I'm part of it, much like previous versions of the game have. I like to trade but why on earth would I never start a company and employ others to do the jobs for me. At the moment I feel like a freelancer in Euro Truck Sim 2 and can't progress further unlike in ETS2 where I can actually start my own business, employ staff and improve my base of operations. Where is this in ED?

I don't feel as if the game has actually progressed much since launch. Engineers are pointless to me and feel tacked on (all I get is grief for having 1 lump of reward material in my inventory), factions just caused me to have to move my trading elsewhere as over night whole systems trade and manufacturing changed from one type to another (how??) and another up tick in being shot at for no reason other than belonging to a massive faction (it makes no sense that you get attacked so frequently just because you fly around blue space rather than red space).

The added mechanisms don't seem to be joined up. Why does everything I do have no wider effect?

And don't get me started with the 'story' that the Cannon is doing such a great job investigating. For the average player the story arc has at the moment nothing to do with them. We can't or don't have the capacity to take part. Where is the story, any story for us? I'd love to be part of it but it just comes across as a full time job combined with the fact that everything gets solved far too quickly. I'm not sure FD intended for the solutions to be found so quickly as the next bits of the story are always on hold, seemingly as they scramble around writing it.

Mission variety is missing. Its essentially the same few things to do, but things that never join up to make something bigger. Again, I don't feel doing these missions has any impact other than those mentioned earlier (cash etc).

The people playing the game are trying their hardest to make something of it, groups like the Fuel Rats have found a rewarding and interesting niche but they are an exception rather than a rule.

And then there's the whole issue of seasons, or whatever they are calling it now. No idea what is going on with these. Happening far too slowly. Maybe with the release of the PS4 version they can put more resources into actually progressing things but I'm not holding my breath.

/Sigh.

Except the rank increase is meaningless, so it's pointless. If I go up in a rank, I couldn't care less - it does nothing for me. ED was made strictly as a game the player could enter, but change nothing, create nothing and own nothing except for more ships. With such a disconnect to the game, this is why players leave and it's incredibly weird to see this game being compared to Star Citizen and Second Life which it couldn't be anything further from. You are stuck in a seat 100% of the time and social interaction is incredibly limited - it's basically FE2 - what's different about it?

Missions devolve into shooting something or delivering something on the whole. There's no team missions where you can fly with your friends to achieve an objective and if there is, well that mission is like playing a solo mission but with other people there doing the same thing. You don't affect anything, nothing you do is permanent you're like a ghost - at least in the real world we all have some affect on the universe, ED deletes all traces of that and actively does so.

There needs to be a reversal of attitudes at FD. Let's hop that S3 or whatever they're going to call it really does address the massive hole in gameplay (exploration) and that they give everyone something to play for (as long as they work just on exploration) and that the universe gets filled with interesting things (for explorers)
 
At least the forums haven't changed in the two or three years I've been away.

Same complaints by the same people.

If someone replies to this with "complaining about complaining" I'll have the full set.
I'm tired of people complaining about the complaining on the forum.


...what do i win?? :p
 
I think elite was Brabens milk cow going trying to cash on the hype with Starcitizen, now ED have make revenue so that they could make other games
Also this article is David want us to slowly get in our mind his vision cannot be completed so a withdraw need to be accepted slowly
 
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I'm struggling to understand this part. ED is a "blaze your own trail game" - what's the narrative? Second Life is a sandbox game that lets you build stuff and buy clothes for your avatar. Star citizen has walking around ships and atmospheric planets - ED is nothing like either or these. ED is like FE2 - it's a space trading game with combat.

Agreed. There truly isn't much of a narrative; none, really, if you just stay in-game and don't read Galnet or the forums.

A sandbox game often includes building stuff, but it's not required by the definition. You can buy clothes for your avatar, with real money. Eventually, we should have walking around and atmospheric planets, but not anytime soon.

What ED has is a near-infinite galaxy, populated with procedurally-generated content. There's no persistence, at least at the individual player level. Groups of players can have small persistent effects, via the community goals. For example, the reason Palin has corrosion-proof racks is due to a successful CG. The reason that the racks are only size 2, is because CG participation was low and didn't reach the upper tiers.

ED is foremost a fly-your-spaceship game. Everything else is built on top of that. And grinding, lots of grinding, and RNG, lots and lots of RNG. If you don't enjoy those things, you probably won't like ED very much.

The reason there's so much complaining on this board is that most players see the potential, but there are major missing features and development seems to be so slow. I have high hopes for this game, but it will be a long time before it reaches its full potential (if it ever does).
 
What ED has is a near-infinite galaxy, populated with procedurally-generated content. There's no persistence, at least at the individual player level. Groups of players can have small persistent effects, via the community goals. For example, the reason Palin has corrosion-proof racks is due to a successful CG. The reason that the racks are only size 2, is because CG participation was low and didn't reach the upper tiers.
Oh, shucks! If I had known about that CG and its outcome. Bummer. On the other hand though, I suspect it's a good thing that it's only a 2. If it was larger, UA bombing terrorists would close down stations left and right.

ED is foremost a fly-your-spaceship game. Everything else is built on top of that. And grinding, lots of grinding, and RNG, lots and lots of RNG. If you don't enjoy those things, you probably won't like ED very much.

The reason there's so much complaining on this board is that most players see the potential, but there are major missing features and development seems to be so slow. I have high hopes for this game, but it will be a long time before it reaches its full potential (if it ever does).
 
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The reason there's so much complaining on this board is that most players see the potential, but there are major missing features and development seems to be so slow. I have high hopes for this game, but it will be a long time before it reaches its full potential (if it ever does).
Imagine if this game was open source or public domain or something. The input, support, and development that would happen. A Linux of space games.
 
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The game doesn't need us to function. That's the reality. We are an optional input. Everything is more or less pre-ordained. Even the Thargoid stuff. It's all set pieces. If you watch and listen to David, he is obsessed with a living breathing universe - with endless amazing stellar phenomena and fascinating geopolitical situations and 'the return' of flower people Thargoids - that is ostensibly self sufficient.

The reality is? The thing people can't quite put their finger on? We are optional. The game doesn't require players to function. And as such, this means we essentially have no agency within the game. It's not built to be a puzzle, with players as some of the pieces. We just get to put the pieces into the puzzle.

And that, to me, is why I *LOVE* Elite, and have loved it in it's various incarnations since I was 11. The universe doesn't revolve around me, and doesn't really care what I do. In the same what that I'm pretty sure civilisation on Planet Earth as a whole would still tick along just if everyone who'd ever posted on these forums disappeared tomorrow. The galaxy is just a canvas, for me, alone in my ship. And that's brilliant. I don't need to be the lone hero saving us all from the Thargoid menace, or leading my faction to victory over the Empire, or looking after a space station with my 'guildmates'. I don't necessarily care at all whether the 'People's Princess' or that dude from Terminator 2 and the X-files controls a system or not, beyond it's effect on trade and laws in that system. It's not the 'broad picture' or 'grand story' unfolding in the galaxy that I care about, it's the minutiae that affect me personally.

And that to me is where Elite falls down - the big 'abstract' stuff is fine as a backdrop, but I'd love to be able to build up a network of NPCs, and interactions and relationships with those characters, to personalise my journey. I'd love missions to involve situations derived dynamically from the BGS backdrop, with individual characters, story arcs, plot twists, changes and variety, beyond just 'shift X from A to B', 'kill 50 of Y', or 'here's an event in open, that due to instancing only 5 people get to experience'. A lot of work - yeah, or even possible, from Proc. Gen.? Maybe not - but DBOBE was/Frontier were once innovators. I hope they can be again.

*Edit* And whatever happens, I'd maintain that the reason why development seems so slow, and features so shallow, all boils down to trying to get anything to work with networking approach they've chosen without breaking.

*Edit 2* Pssssst! Frontier! Shadow of Mordor! Nemesis system! Something similar, might work well to give us over-engineered pilots some interesting NPCs as allies/adversaries. ;)
 
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I think elite was Brabens milk cow going trying to cash on the hype with Starcitizen, now ED have make revenue so that they could make other games
Also this article is David want us to slowly get in our mind his vision cannot be completed so a withdraw need to be accepted slowly

Yep. That too. Requoted for troof! :D
 
I think elite was Brabens milk cow going trying to cash on the hype with Starcitizen, now ED have make revenue so that they could make other games
Also this article is David want us to slowly get in our mind his vision cannot be completed so a withdraw need to be accepted slowly

How insulting can you get? It's his literal life's work since university days.
 
Oh, shucks! If I had known about that CG and its outcome. Bummer. On the other hand though, I suspect it's a good thing that it's only a 2. If it was larger, UA bombing terrorists would close down stations left and right.

Unfortunately, I couldn't participate; I was far outside the bubble at that time.
 
I facepalm whenever Braben says Elite has any resemblance with scientific accuracy.
I love the game, but does not change that it is nonsense.
 
I facepalm whenever Braben says Elite has any resemblance with scientific accuracy.
I love the game, but does not change that it is nonsense.

Oh I don't know. I think there's a lot of science behind the stellar forge and, to a much lesser extent, the free space flight model, but it's very much a game and most definitely not a sim.
 
Oh I don't know. I think there's a lot of science behind the stellar forge and, to a much lesser extent, the free space flight model, but it's very much a game and most definitely not a sim.

Exactly.
It is a game, with gamey mechanics.
The flight model is not newtonian, therefore not realistic and does not need to be. It is a game.
The stellar forge I can admit there is more to it, but still it is just a part.
I think Braben should tone down the speech in a way. We try to be scientifically accurate when the game allows us to be. That´s super respectable.
 
How insulting can you get? It's his literal life's work since university days.

I understand the OP's POV, but I was there at the start back in 1984. Despite playing through the whole PS generations (& others before that), the original BBC B Elite is still my all time favourite game. After I became Elite for the first time, I wanted to do it all again, but what would make it seem fresh? So I decided to become Elite without dying. If I did[1], I had to restart at Lave and I did actual achieve that goal.

So I feel that this latest version is likely to be the closest yet to Braben's 1984 vision. As other have implied, we are just specks floating around this vision, but is this not the intent? That ultimately we are insignificant? Yeah, we may be so, but often in RL it's just such a person that does or finds something extraordinary. And isn't this the appeal of the game, that it might be us?

I commented on another forum that Elite felt like I was simply doing a job, for fake money; that I was actually acting out an ordinary life, in space. I felt a bit silly when I thought about it as I stared into space with nothing to do for 5 minutes while I flew to that planet I wanted to scan.

But why does every game have to be about action, action, action? I bought into the vision back in '84 & I'm still hooked.


..and when I get a little bored with space life, I go play something else & come back refreshed. It is only a game after all. Isn't it...? ;)


[1] You had to reload a save in those days. An escape pod wasn't standard issue, you had to buy one!
 
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