You misunderstand my point; Fdev tossed the mechanic in here because they're out of their depth on this issue, and since so many of you guys are loving on it now they may in all probability just scrap c&p altogether. Why bother when we can all just be our own nannies?
Lead Designers advice on dealing with griefing (part 2)
- Thread starter Stigbob
- Start date
You misunderstand my point; Fdev tossed the mechanic in here because they're out of their depth on this issue, and since so many of you guys are loving on it now they may in all probability just scrap c&p altogether. Why bother when we can all just be our own nannies?
Or, they just see things differently than you, and don't have some romantic vision of how everyone should feel about, and act in open. Maybe, FD just think it's simply another matchmaking choice players can make as they go. FD must have made the mistake of thinking gamers would appreciate the way the individual player can control his/her experience in game. Maybe, FD thought that the players could choose whom they want to play with, and other players would respect that there are many views coming to this table. Not just that open means no rules.
If players would just stop worrying about how others play, in open or otherwise, we wouldn't have to go around poking each other, and FD in the eyes, because another player didn't see the same thing in the advertising drivel. Live and let live, and all of this angst just would go away.
Crime and punishment systems can't address the problems a block feature can address. Out of game problems can only be solved by out of game mechanisms.
That's why a block feature and "karma system" is needed and why a crime and punishment is an addition to those two features and equally needed.
A good crime and punishment system makes playing the game more interesting and entertaining for those who want to engage in (in-game) criminal activity. System can address some player actions that can be addressed in an in-game lore friendly way, but at the same time it should make all crime related aspects of the game more interesting and entertaining for everybody - it should not only address PvP actions and should address PvE actions too.
A crime and punishment system that is only there to punish unwanted player actions is a wast of time and effort.
There is not one single solution for all the problems around crime and player actions.
You're simply addressing my well known contempt for the block feature. I would think the possibility that Fdev might just perpetually put off c&p enhancements because you guys are finding that for all intents and purposes block fulfills the same purpose a bit more interesting.
Except Frontier have already said the beginnings of C&P will be in 2.4, and they will implement a Karma system and are working on it. So there goes that one.
Except Frontier have already said the beginnings of C&P will be in 2.4, and they will implement a Karma system and are working on it. So there goes that one.
That was before you guys all started high fiving each other and break dancing in celebration of Stigbob dredging up some three year old quote of Sandro's
That was before you guys all started high fiving each other and break dancing in celebration of Stigbob dredging up some three year old quote of Sandro's
Sour grapes dude. Your conjecture on how FD will respond to this thread is a reach at best. No one is responding to the notion, because no one thinks it's at all likely. Moreover, I'm sure the posters here see your point, as I do, a desperate attempt to mum us, with the fear that a bigger prize will be lost. Laughable.
Sure enough, you guys will come up with another 'reason' the Block feature is broken, but until then, the idea that FD will even respond to this thread, let alone have it affect their plans, isn't flying in the least.
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That was before you guys all started high fiving each other and break dancing in celebration of Stigbob dredging up some three year old quote of Sandro's
Don't be so pesimistic. There is probably less than 1% of ED players that has anyone in their block list.
Some people like to forum poke PvPers, but they mostly play PG anyway.
Unless PvP groups starts to use it during wing fights, to actively mess with instancing, the block list is a non issue.
Stop arguing and this thread is dead in two days.
I accept full and sole responsibility for the cancellation of the C&P system.
<checks agenda>
More beige next, then we shutdown open.
You're struggling to understand my posts, I'll consider that a failing on my part. I'll repeat what I said before: I never brought morality into the discussion - you did. If anyone is attempting to pass a commentary on morality it is you, not me. Apparently your commentary is not that there is no morality - rather that there is morality but it is different to the morality of life because we're online playing a game. Your logic is basically - because in this game I am allowed to be a pirate, or a smuggler - I am also allowed to cause grief to other players because pirates and smugglers cause grief to people in real life thus by accepting pirates and smugglers they too must also accept grief.
Interesting - I don't know why you quoted me to begin with in order to make these points, that I'll soon refute, but this has nothing to do with what I said.
What I did was remark on how people change their behaviour towards others because they are behind a computer screen - in particular, I remarked that they ignore a social construct that is typically taught to them at a very very young age.
We are talking about the block feature and how some players cannot abide by its usage while others couldn't care. I'm suggesting that
- those that couldn't care about the block feature being used are the people that do not ignore that early social construct - understanding that other people enjoy different things.
- those that can't abide by the block feature being used are those that do ignore that early social construct. They cannot stand that someone likes something that they do not and cannot deal with that person not playing their game, their way.
Regarding your obscure commentary on morality: you are playing with real people, there are consequences to your actions taken on them. It being a game does not change this. It has nothing to do with the environment of the game. It has nothing to do with "killing people online is immoral", which is an obnoxious abstraction so infantile and ridiculous I default to believing you must be trolling any time I read it. It has nothing to do with any in game profession, any war or theft, any smuggling or piracy. It has to do with how your conduct, effects someone else.
For example: if you verbally abuse someone online "Roleplaying" a pirate, there is a question of morality and it will be considered. If you offend that person - it is likely that you will be punished for it by FDEV. Depending on the severity (and geography) it may even be escalated to law enforcement.
Just because you are playing as a "pirate" does not give you license to abuse people. There definitely should be (and there is by the way) an expectation of real world rules applying. You agreed to those rules before playing online.
I really don't think you should be deciding what FDev are or are not, considering it is their game, and their rules. Don't want to be blocked? Then don't act like a caveman, respect your fellow players, and stop trying to foist what you want upon others who clearly want something different from the game. There, problem solved.
I think you have the timeline a little mixed up here. The block list has apparently been in the game since launch whereas the c&p has only recently been thought about. This would suggest that the block list mechanic was not tossed in here because of anything to to with the C&P.
But hey, don't let a little logic spoil a good argument.
The devs foresaw that certain people would act up, and gave us a tool to 'dispose' of them, thereby encouraging more people into Open. It shouldn't have been the only tool in our arsenal, but since a proper C&P system is apparently in the works, hopefully there will be other options further down the road.
That's wonderful except:
1. I've spent less than 0.1% of my time in this game engaged in PVP and haven't had any form of PVP encounter in over 12 months.
2. As you said there is no open PVE mode. There was no open PVE mode advertised with the game, which was the entire point I was making.
So you said you want to be able to 'play with others cooperatively in an open world', you bought a game that by your own admission does not provide a game mode in which that can happen without also allowing the possibility of playing with people who do not only want to play cooperatively because there is no PVE mode and yet as I said, you think it's everybody else who has the problem. Hell you even think it's me that has the problem, despite the fact that you agree with me 100% that the game doesn't include a mode that provides the experience you want and didn't ever advertise itself as doing and the fact that I've hardly ever bothered with PVP.
Oh and as I said, you can in fact engage in the cooperative gameplay I referred to in private group. Not every private group (nor did I say that) but private groups can be created to provide PVE mode, thereby providing your required functionality. You know, like I said.
Thanks for your utterly hilarious psychological profile of me though. Your TED talk on the abandonment of social norms on the internet was fascinating too, or would have been if it wasn't for the fact that pretty much everything you wrote was written from the (entirely false) perspective that PVP players 'do PVP' to make other people's lives a misery and that engaging in it is somehow the mark of a delinquent and neglected mind.
Just so we're absolutely clear by the way, if you were sat in front of me right now I would cheerfully tell you that to your face.
Honestly, the attitudes of some people on here towards the very concept of PVP is one of the oddest things I've seen on the internet in over 20 years of using it.
Also I've realised with this post that it is literaly impossibleto discuss this topic (OP's I mean) for any length of time without it turning into a mode debate, simply because some players seem to view the game through the prism of their hopes and dreams rather than doing what most 'sensible adults' do (since you seem quite keen on people taking a mature approach) which is to deal with things as they are, not as you wish they were.
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Rafe Zetter
Banned
I'm sorry was this meant to be a serious reply?
If any player does anything out of spite "'coz he sploded me / i didnt like wot he rote / dunt like his name / his youtube are carp" or ANY other pathetic reason - I WANT THEM TO BLOCK PEOPLE, so that those "other people" don't have to be in the same space as the spiteful child, who would otherwise probably go out of his/her way to "get thier own back".
And any person that reads a smear campaign that spiteful child might undertake and also blocks well - they clearly don't have the capacity to think for themselves and likewise - good riddance.
For many many years there was (and still is to some extent) a built in "natural selection" system for Eve Online. Sure it has it's griefers, but most of those are at least "Intelligent" about it. I hate the goonsquad with a passion, mostly because I think The Mittani should have been permabanned for tryign to incite a suicide - BUT, honestly, I respect them because they are not braindead greifers, they perform a function - to cull the weak and the stupid that the game's inbuilt complexity IQ test didn't remove first.
But ED isn't Eve O ans thus doesn't require such a force.
If those types in ED want the ability to block YOU "coz reasons" - trust me, they are DOING YOU A FAVOR.
Personally I think all ingame commander names should be public so you CAN make that choice, why should you have to be killed first? I'm not a carebear - I've been in Eve since '09, the harshest gaming environment currently available - but spiteful children I can do without. Block me, PLEASE.
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Blocking people under the current system isn't an example of live and let live. It's diametrically opposed to that.
The problem with the block feature in it's current incarnation is that it's an out-of-game/metagame feature frequently being used in an attempt to solve in-game problems.
That's pretty much how people started to realize the feature was even working in the first place.
Might be the case if they weren't taking everyone in their instance with them.
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Ranting conjecture in it's entirety.
Not sure how you could call any of it conjecture when the functionality is demonstrable and the rest has a historical record behind it.