FD Can we have some big ship content please

[Friedenreich Xante]

I'm pretty sure I'm earning Money much faster since I fly big ships. Not sure what you are missing, OP.

I almost wonder if we're playing the same game. First off: You can't steal kills with a Sidey, lol. What nonsense! In order for a Sidey to steal your kill, you would need to lose line of sight for 20+ seconds and then have the Sidey out DPS your "big ship". So if you're losing CR to a Sidewinder in a RES, don't blame your ship, or the game.

Second: this game is geared towards progression for big ships, and specifically punishes small ship owners, particularly in PVP. Almost all of the existing missions and modules are so vastly superior on big ships that it's not even close.

And Finally: the game tailors your experience and difficulty based on your ship size/class, level of engineering, and of course your 3 ranks (with emphasis on your combat rank). It also seems to tailor the challenge based on what difficulty of ships you target and how well you do vs them.

I am Triple Elite and I am good enough to be able to kill an Elite Anaconda with an SLF that has only 23% hull to start with (eg if the Conda caught me with even 1 solid hit, I'd be toast). Hence the game seems to be sending it's full force NPCs against me now. I have complained in the past about NPCs being too easy. But now (in my instances) I'd say they fly better than 90% of players.

^^This


EDIT: Once you git gud there is no risk for small ships either. As Ziljan said, at some Point you'll be able to finish off an Anaconda with a SLF. What do you want the game to do against this?

 

[Noctover]

Hmm love my Cobra, and my Courier, but never use them precisely for the same reason i disagree with the original post; i think the game is weighted for big ships.

I got an Annie, and that's all i need to use because it does everything, i could happily sell everything else and wouldn't miss them because no gap has been created. Large ships cant land on outposts, that really irritates some people dosent bother others (like me) but that's about it.

Frankly i think more needs to be done to encourage the use of small ships. I don't think big battleships like the Annie/Cutter/Vette should even be able to hit a small ship with turrets, and should have to equip to combat small ships accordingly if that's what they want to do. Make for more interesting combat variety and layouts.

 

[Ziljan]

OP. I am 100% behind you and have commented as such several times on these forums. There is no "end game" for big ships. I'd like to see Extremely hazardous RES, Wings of G5 engineered Elite ships which are challenging etc



That is the point the OP is making



Gimping yourself 'cos there isn't big ship content isn't the solution.

If that's what the OP is saying, then I'm 100% on board. But it sounded like he was saying that the game encourages you to fly small ships to minimize risk, as if he were risk averse but wanted content that was just hard enough that only big ships could handle it. If he is saying he wants to get rid of auto-leveling of NPCs and instead create truly challenging NPCs, then yeah I'm all for that.

 

[StiTch]

Pretty sure this can all be addressed as "FD can we have some challenging content please?"

Yes, big ships are lacking content. Because everything drops like wheat when you even point a big ship at thy foe.

And yes, small ships are lacking content...because they are effectively completely cost and risk free money machines once you've played more than a couple of weeks, and when you have modded PE thrusters/decent shields, you may as well assume they cannot die anyway. Oh, and still nothing challenges a well built/engineered ship.

Strictly speaking, from a combat perspective, the big ships have it worse off. At least smaller ships can maintain the illusion of an engaging fight; i.e. you need to manoeuvre still to win. Big ships are 100% "point and win" - there is unequivocally nothing less engaging than PvE in a modded 'vette/iCutter. I guess technically bigger ships are better multirole machines, able to do a greater range of activities, but sorry - that's just inherent in ships with more internal space and ability to take mass.

Doesn't mean I'd mind seeing any dedicated small ship content, or more uses for them - but they are less cookie cutter in build than big ships, and at least do whatever you ask them in a semi-engaging manner.

 

[Aashenfox]

I hate to bang my drum (no I don't), but this is really a cry for proper multiplayer content. Big ships should be tanks, little ships DPS. Easy. IT should be the big ships role to keep fire off the smaller ships.

P.S. @StiTch, it would be easy to make the big ships proper tanks, fitted with shield batts or massive hull armor, and hull repair drones, plus a cooldown ability for survival. I reckon.

 

[Friedenreich Xante]

I'm building a HAZ RES mining Anaconda right now. So a big part of the internals will go towards mining. I expect this to be a bit more engaging. But otherwise, if you are bored flying big ships, you know there are other ships . Though I agree with you, when flying a modded Corvette, you should be interdicted by wings of Elite Anacondas instead of a single FDL.

Or even better: Specialised wings with p.e. a super fast courrier with FSD-disruptive weapons to pin you down, a shield fragging Corvette and another hull crushing big ship, both equipped with a pair of fighters. There you'd have your challenge

 

[StiTch]

I hate to bang my drum (no I don't), but this is really a cry for proper multiplayer content. Big ships should be tanks, little ships DPS. Easy.

P.S. @StiTch, it would be easy to make the big ships proper tanks, fitted with shield batts or massive hull armor, and hull repair drones, plus a cooldown ability for survival. I reckon.

Agreed...alas, we don't even have the networking for decent multiplayer, let alone the content, and probably won't be looked at until the rest of the game has had some TLC (and too rightly).

We still have a lot of prospective content to come around combat - e.g. atmospheric landing/planetary assault, or ya know, any kind of context...and yet something internally tells me the majority of it will become the same NPC farming activity it's always been but in different locations.

Specifically regarding ship roles in combat, the enjoyment factor is in favour of the smaller ships, but that doesn't mean they outperform bigger ships...FD have to be careful not to overtank big ships to the point of even more invulnerability they have now. I think the only thing that could effectively kill an iCutter even now is a PvP wing.

 

[Pyrobee]

I think the game needs missions specifically for certain ship classes. Such as a mission can be best done with a Viper. The mission description could mention it.

Why? If you want to do a mission in a viper just use one.

 

[Bran Tse Mallory]

I cut my teeth in a sidewinder stealing kills so what do I know, and no I do not lose kills to a Sidney. The main point is that the mission system rewards smaller ships, I regularly get cargo missions to move 10 tons or sometimes 90 tons, very rarely perhaps 115 tons. I don't get missions that go anywhere near to filling my Type 9. The potential of the ship is wasted when looking at the mission boards. The rewards don't scale with tonnage either, I can get 350,000 to move 6 tons slightly more to move 90 tons.

Likewise if I'm flying an expensive combat ship I can interdicted by an expensive ship and by doing so risk an expensive rebuy, likewise flying a smaller less valuable ship pits you against lower quality enemies that are easier to kill, making life more profitable for less risk. I have seen a bit more variety in NPC ship classes of late though which is a good thing, but my point remains that I can and regularly do steal kills in res sites in a sidewinder and get 350,000 per anaconda, why hit the same res in my own Python or Anaconda for the same rewards when the risk is much bigger with a 12 million rebuy?

So I maintain the game design favours smaller ships in terms of risk vs reward.

I love flying my sidey though.

I take this post as proof that even if big ship content were a thing you'd still take a Sidewinder into it... We get it, you like to fly the small ship against big risk and by asking for the big risk to get bigger you can take bigger risks in the non big ships... I say this as you seem very keen to point out what you do in a Sidewinder all the time for no reason that I can see apart from a possible ego boost.

I won't continue as I may up offending someone.

 

[Aashenfox]

Agreed...alas, we don't even have the networking for decent multiplayer, let alone the content, and probably won't be looked at until the rest of the game has had some TLC (and too rightly).

We still have a lot of prospective content to come around combat - e.g. atmospheric landing/planetary assault, or ya know, any kind of context...and yet something internally tells me the majority of it will become the same NPC farming activity it's always been but in different locations.

Specifically regarding ship roles in combat, the enjoyment factor is in favour of the smaller ships, but that doesn't mean they outperform bigger ships...FD have to be careful not to overtank big ships to the point of even more invulnerability they have now. I think the only thing that could effectively kill an iCutter even now is a PvP wing.

I think the tanks would be running 1 pip to weapons so they're tankiness will be offset by low dps, they'll need a slight threat mechanic of course. You're right, there's a lot of coding effort there, which is better focused on bugs and major gameplay issues. I think there also needs to be a stronger relationship between survivability and dps. In other words, the more survivability you have the less dps you can do, etc.

 

[Cervantes01]

I wouldn't mind seeing the missions board actually issue missions based on my ship, instead of 90% of them being 'unavailable' because 'ship too large' most days.

This is precisely my point, I'm sick of this to.

 

[Cervantes01]

You can argue that you can't choose who you meet and that if the party mostly requires more specific ships for specific missions that most of these should absolutely be present and unavailable on your BB.

What you can't argue however is having nothing else for an allied King/Admiral than asking you to deliver 6 tons of scrap for peanuts when you present yourself with a 712 ton hold.
Especially in a station that has millions and millions of "inhabitants". Apparently they don't need much to live on. Elite does a great job at making you superfluous, anywhere, at any time, with as little influence as possible.

I'd rep you again if I could

 

[Cervantes01]

If you're not seeing missions for bigger cargo or more deadly enemies, then I suggest you get allied with a minor faction, fly a big ship, have a high combat rank, carry at least 1T of semi-valuable cargo, and if that fails then get yourself a big bounty on your head and start fighting off waves of cops and random Bounty Hunters. Then you'll have your big ship content for sure.

Lot of assumptions there, I am allied with a minot faction, several in fact, and I have a high combat rank, the rest of your post comes down to 'become a criminal,' then you'll have big ship combat content, but my point remains true, I can do all of this in a small ship with a 4 ton hold and for much less risk as the rewards do not scale up, especially when fighting cops and bounty hunters. You've actually proved my point.

There's some things that only aircraft carriers and troops ships can do, that frigates and destroyers cannot do, let alone speedboats, the problem with the game and the mission system as I see it is that it treats all ship classes as the one and the same. This is what I'd like to see changed.

 

[Cervantes01]

If that's what the OP is saying, then I'm 100% on board. But it sounded like he was saying that the game encourages you to fly small ships to minimize risk, as if he were risk averse but wanted content that was just hard enough that only big ships could handle it. If he is saying he wants to get rid of auto-leveling of NPCs and instead create truly challenging NPCs, then yeah I'm all for that.

I am actually all for that as well I'm not actually that risk adverse as the rebuys are really cheap, except on the anaconda that's painful, but i'd like to see the mission board have a variety of missions that suit different classes of ships, particularly transport missions, I've never seen a transport mission that couldn't be done by a python. It makes owning a Type 9 superfluous if you enjoy moving stuff about and the the Type 7 is next to useless when compared to the mighty python.

I'm getting tired now, I've had a hard day and I'm struggling to articulate my thoughts clearly, so apologies if I'm not coming across as clearly as you'd like in my posts

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I wouldn't mind seeing the missions board actually issue missions based on my ship, instead of 90% of them being 'unavailable' because 'ship too large' most days.

I'd be happy with the mission board giving missions. The 0/0 missions available is still a thing all too often, and forces you to mode switch to even see some missions at times.

 

[kofeyh]

I almost wonder if we're playing the same game. First off: You can't steal kills with a Sidey, lol. What nonsense! In order for a Sidey to steal your kill, you would need to lose line of sight for 20+ seconds and then have the Sidey out DPS your "big ship". So if you're losing CR to a Sidewinder in a RES, don't blame your ship, or the game.

Ziljan, no offence, but try actually reading before immediately being incensed that someone is saying something about small ships. The op indicated they were in the sidewinder, not that one was stealing their kills. You can easily steal kills (and or bounties) from cops in a high res in an E rated sidewinder. This sets up a very low cost way to make decent income; so why bother using anything else?

Second: this game is geared towards progression for big ships, and specifically punishes small ship owners, particularly in PVP. Almost all of the existing missions and modules are so vastly superior on big ships that it's not even close.

Not exactly. Smaller ships were designed to bang away at each other, not hunt down large ships and destroy them with ease; that you want to take a courier and demolish an apex cutter or corvette is fine. But that should be a david/ doris vs goliath fight, where david/ doris is mostly very dead. And it's not unless david/ doris has a bunch of mates with them, that david/ doris has a decent crack at sending the target to Valhalla.

The problem, though, is module proliferation and simple linear stat gains on module size. This automatically means more is good. It's the same for pretty much everything in game; more of everything is good. That's not specifically a ship issue. It's a scaling issue. This, is why people skip small ships. Try to not conflate the two.

--

Back to the topic. The game essentially needs more reasons to use either a small ship, or a large ship, by having contextually relevant things to do. I tend to think this is something that can be considered as part of 2.4, or beyond. There's a certain 'generic' feel to missions and various tasks. A little context thrown in to missions, combat and so on would probably go a long long way.

 

[Hadarmil]

I say there is content for everybody, but the scaling is way off. I can take two assasination missions, one for 400Kc and another for 450Kc, one pitting me against some "competent" shlob in a viper and the other against a fully grown deadly/elite anaconda. Also the same cash for transporting 14T of biowaste 14ly to a station 50ls from the star and 16T palladium 16Ly and 450Kls away. The first goes smoothly with maybe a 2m timer for landing( wha? you really need that biowaste now now now?) and the other some NPC jerk that keeps interdicting me.

The scaling issues are really bad for new players learning the ropes. The difference in AI behaviour between ranks is way too steep - NPCs below deadly are dumb as bricks and new players suddenly encounter actual NPC tactics for the first time seemingly out of nowhere.

Also making shipping jobs scalable will be great - get paid not only by NRG but by bulk. It makes little sense that factions are giving me 10 missions to deliver the same commodity over and over. If you can carry more how about we fill your cargo up and pay you by the ton? I see a seperate board for shipping where, like in the commodities menu, you can fill up your cargo as you want only the commodities are to be delivered to specific locations. Space truck simulator all the way!

 

[Lucius-Darcia]

I wouldn't mind seeing the missions board actually issue missions based on my ship, instead of 90% of them being 'unavailable' because 'ship too large' most days.

This!
It's specially annoying if i find missions for outposts requesting 200t cargocapacity [blah]
We all know that there is only one ship for these missions available and only if fitted as cargohauler. Yet they pay as same as 6 tons delivery.

It's beem some time when i've last used my Anaconda. Python is the ultimate all-what-you want where the big ships just see "sorry, not you"

 

[Zebaoth]

I wouldn't mind seeing the missions board actually issue missions based on my ship, instead of 90% of them being 'unavailable' because 'ship too large' most days.

ED is probably the only online game that's giving out missions you can't accept.
Imagine any other MMO where you're being offered missions/quests but can't accept them because you're a tank/healer/dps or the quest requires you to bring a sword while your current weapon is an axe.
It's bonkers.