Its the yearly hypetrain of SC that promises a super modern never seen before high-tech train with everything you could wish for...just to get a very old half-broken down steam locomotive thats coughing its last puff...
Star Citizen Thread v6
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Its the yearly hypetrain of SC that promises a super modern never seen before high-tech train with everything you could wish for...just to get a very old half-broken down steam locomotive thats coughing its last puff...
I love to point something particular out.
The game that started as "be a ship" had reached the step to turn into a "be a pilot" game by giving players access to a character creator and customization. BEFORE the game that started as "be a pilot" and still misses a character editor...after 4,5,6? years...
Have players here romanced the thought of getting their ship jacked!?
I'm starting to think that maybe I jumped the gun in purchasing a Polaris. I do not relish the idea of having my Corvette stolen! That in itself might likely usher in a whole new level of griefing if it isn't handled with good consequences. I think it's cool that jacking can be done but as apparent in many online games, some people are sure to take it a bit too far.
I think I'd be in shock, awe, laugh, and then cuss a lot if my Corvette were stolen!
I wouldn't get too excited about piracy, a long time ago Dr Smart said they couldn't get ship docking to work. Then much much later CIG confirmed the docking rings/direct ship docking is no longer under development as it doesn't work, as far as I know there's been nothing said by CIG since.
The closest you are likely to get to any ship to ship piracy is buying a concept that's been advertised as making it possible. Like exploration/modding/private servers/95% systems it wont feature in the MVP.
Potential later inclusion will depend on the success of the MVP.
Sad but true.
![[VR] Mad Mike](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/27/27910.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
hey i am no Star Citizen white knight....... ultimately FD have delivered an (albeit unfinished and flawed) product that i have been playing for 1500 hrs. SC is still a tech demo with a flight model i am not fond of..... i have just chosen not to fully give up on SC yet (tho their stance on VR has meant my optimism has taken a huge hit)
However until SC launches and we know exactly what is on the "cutting room floor" I am still choosing to "hope" for the best on features until i hear it from the devs to think otherwise.
either way, SC has some good ideas imo, ones which i think could have a positive impact on other games. whether they can implement them well tho, is another issue entirely
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Oh yes! Something in between the mega ships and the player controllable ships. Tools for specific purposes that are not player controllable, but visibly modeled nonetheless, to give life and purpose to the ingame galaxy. Hard to imagine that all the human race has developed are 30 ship types + mega and capital ships. Where are the freighters that don't fit into the stations and the respective docks? Where are the planetary surface shuttles? Where are different types of military ships between the Corvette/Clipper and capital ships sizes? Where are specifically developed weapon carrier platform ships to serve as mission targets - either to protect or destroy. If there are snub fighters, where are carrier ships that specialize in carrying loads of these? Where are military resupply ships to support a fleet on the move with food and repair/maintenance? Where are more elaborate ground vehicles? Big cargo truck typs for ground mining, hover tank types for ground battles? igantic planetary mining machines to serve as bombing targets or to be protected?
All would make for a more "lively" ingame galaxy and the diversification of Star Citizen's ships it what me got first into Star Citizen, before I even considered Elite. It revoked the memories of Wing Commander manuals, where all the military ships had their specific roles, strengths and character.
But when backing in 2014, I hadn't followed Star Citizen and didn't expect it to turn into the scheme it is today, where new buyable variants are introduced every month while an actual "1.0" release has eluded us for years and doesn't look to be coming any closer if at all.
All things considered, I prefer the somewhat "shallow" and unbelievable Elite ship variety to a game that never releases. And since 1.0 in 2014, the asset variety in Elite has slowly improved. From new station interiors, non station installations (proper missions designed around them would be very welcome...) to mega ships. Slowly.
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They sure have alot of ideas good ones too but so far, in my eyes, they have a hard time realizing those ideas which makes them sadly worthless. One can speak about the Utopia of gaming as much as he likes, because talk is cheap there is no effort involved and CR LOVES to talk, even his hands cant shut up...
Its this time of year again afterall, like the last years there will be so much to "show" and talk about 3.0 but who knows maybe they suprise us! Atleast my expectations cant go deeper then bedrock...maybe they suprise me their too..
Yeah, i could also wax lyrical about a game that i would like to make with all sorts of wonderful things. Indeed, i think many of us have dreamt about our dream games and all the wonderful features they would have.
And this is why i think so many people "believe" in CR, because he is saying he will make the game that many people have thought they would love to make/play themselves. But that by itself is all dreams, and often, in our dreams, we don't always think things through. Game designers need to think not only "that might be kewl" but actually think how it will actually work in reality and how kewl it will really be vs effort.
In the case of SC, it seems like nobody (or specifically CR) cares about how much effort something will take, how long it will take to develop, or how well it will work in terms of actual gameplay and fit in with the rest of the game (if its kewl, it gets in).
Of course, could be proven wrong, but will wait and see rather than blindly believe all will be super.
Recent ones I've flown in the PU are the Starfarer and the Caterpillar...pretty big, relative to anything I've flown including the Connie and Cutlass. One of the subscriber perks is the ship of the month, last time I paid subs the ship was the Cat...loved it.
Caterpillar
Starfarer
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The thing is that an idea that cannot be implemented isnt a good idea, and having a ton of ideas you cannot implement doesnt make one a 'visionary' (as SC fans claim CR is). Its called 'daydreaming', which is also fun but not really impressive.
The thing is that an idea that cannot be implemented isnt a good idea, and having a ton of ideas you cannot implement doesnt make one a 'visionary' (as SC fans claim CR is). Its called 'daydreaming', which is also fun but not really impressive.
Ohh, daydreaming is fun.
Turning dreams into something real is different thing entirely.
As someone who have very vivid ideas which never leave me I can vouch that implement your ideas as they are is very, very hard. However if you are dreamer and you push yourself to implement your ideas you can create something. However you need discipline, training, emotional balance...it is life long marathon.
When I see Chris speaking I see very big dreamer. However I also see someone who clearly doesn't understand consequences or implications of making dreams real.
This seems to be the thinking of many people giving CiG the benefit of the doubt.
"I d rather wait longer for a finished product and have a perfect game all at once instead of getting it piece meal like in ED but both will be about the same at the end"
Only that reality benefits one scenario and not the other. ED at least released and managed to stay on the market for years now all the while increasing its scope in little steps aiming for a much larger picture. Its as much a testbed as well as a direction for them (they cannot change the scope massively without trashing their whole game so they need to build upon the foundation). While it sounds like a restriction its really more like an assist preventing them to "get lost" during development. To be honest thats the vibe I get a lot from CiG as if they dont know what they are supposed to do anymore. They work on this then that, hype this thing this week then swing around to announce new stuff or refactor old stuff the next. Its true chaos. It probably wouldnt be that bad if CiGs development process really was "open" (doesnt has to be the most open development ever....just open would be great) giving the backers insight and real power to intervene and affect progress. Only that doesnt happen here. Every piece of advancement is held back from backer eyes. Oh we know about so many things that they currently work on...only nothing ever arrives and whatever does arrive are tiny modifications (its hard to call them improvements) on the PU which stayed largely the same since its release. CiG tries to dress it up like a big present delivering everything at once but you know, this isnt a birthday party, its game development and they should release every snippet they have in alpha to allow testing and feedback to flow back into the process.
I said it some time ago but the example fits.
Try to paint a perfect picture from the get go and you will fail. A true artist starts with a rough outline and goes from there resulting in beauty and perfection that is often breathtaking.
Interesting. I d like to hear your "pitch" about Star Citizen as you need to present it in a neutral form in order to make results valid. Color the description only slightly with your own opinion and people will pick it up from there. It does show that you need some kind of "modifier" in order to stay behind the project or simply dont care (in which case you wouldnt be vocal tho). In Star Citizen that modifier comes through investment and the desperate need for a true space sim. Both are exploits by CiG. I did have similar interactions with people on parties, strangers really which I considered "okay" from the start. And some of the times talking went into games. I usually try the waters by bringing up Star Citizen eventually and if its somebody who doesnt know about it he usually starts to ask questions about it which I can answer with the facts I know (funding, backer numbers, development start, original pitch etc). Pretty much all the time people laugh and ask if its a scam.
You cannot show them promo videos because thats not representing reality and it would only affect their judgement. So basically it comes down to people who can see through the smoke and mirror and people who cant. And right now watching over my youtube suggestions I see so many Star Citizen videos being uploaded just that most of them are like official CiG vids. Lots of talking while snippets of varying promo videos play in the background. All of them designed to look cool and sway people. Its a fly trap and nothing more.
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Of course we have. In fact coincidentally, over the last few weekends I've looked into this more seriously and started my own "ED Lite" (#cough# #cough#). Just mucking around to see how easy PG was to do (very easy it turns out), then I used a 3d WebGL engine (for the first time), and even installed Firefox Nightly and got VR working with a beautiful skybox, stars, planets, moons all moving properly in their elliptic orbit paths (not Eulers... 3rd order poly approximation ... much better optimised, hardly any error)... y'know everything we did as kids when we were computer nerds on old monochrome green monitors, only now the tools are so much more advanced we can prototype 3D/VR in hours.
SC's downfall is so obviously this. For any initial foray into game dev I may take, there would be no pew pew for example - what a time sink that is. At the most it would be abstracted combat. There are so many other space sim game concepts that have hardly been touched by the mainstream AAAs and IIIs - but I'll keep those close to my chest.
Like you said, Agony, I could wax lyrical about fun things like PG mass/luminosity probability distribution functions describing entire galaxies. That was the most enjoyable weekend of coding I've had in years... optimising the galactic PG down to just 2.4 ms per galaxy... 400 galaxies created per second as I'm "flying" through the universe.
So semi-seriously, if anyone wants to chew the fat and/or collaborate on a game that _we_ might want to play, PM me. Hopefully you're like me... semi retired with plenty of time on your hands, and far too many years of IT experience. Let's do this.
I am giving CR et al the benefit of the doubt due to enjoying all their games in the past... now, some have countered this with "CR was never really responsible for the past games he is credited for!"... I must admit I am not sure if it is true or not.... All I know is i lost many an hr to privateer, privateer 2 as well as the wing commanders.
to me, SC seems to me like a multiplayer spiritual successor to privateer, and S42 to wing commander.
maybe i am right, maybe not, but my $60 is long spent now, and true, whilst i admit i considered a refund after seeing them backpeddle on VR, the truth of it is, what can i do with $60? ..... so i have decided to stay positive.
if when the game launches it is a bag of monkeyballs, well i will be complaining along with the rest of them.
PS lets not forget CIG are not alone in the ability to wax lyrical of things not really in the game.
just listen to David Braben talking about "hard science-fiction" as well as the "finalised" mechanics in the DDF.
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I am giving CR et al the benefit of the doubt due to enjoying all their games in the past... now, some have countered this with "CR was never really responsible for the past games he is credited for!"... I must admit I am not sure if it is true or not.... All I know is i lost many an hr to privateer, privateer 2 as well as the wing commanders.
to me, SC seems to me like a multiplayer spiritual successor to privateer, and S42 to wing commander.
maybe i am right, maybe not, but my $60 is long spent now, and true, whilst i admit i considered a refund after seeing them backpeddle on VR, the truth of it is, what can i do with $60? ..... so i have decided to stay positive.
if when the game launches it is a bag of monkeyballs, well i will be complaining along with the rest of them.
PS lets not forget CIG are not alone in the ability to wax lyrical of things not really in the game.
just listen to David Braben talking about "hard science-fiction" as well as the "finalised" mechanics in the DDF.
I wasnt singling you out, I merely stated an observation I see a lot lately based on your remark thats all. I understand where you are coming from because I too have spent nights on those old games loving them to bits and back and Star Citizen in its original pitch was indeed a successor to these games. Only that has changed and it seems we are getting a completely new beast instead of what we wanted back in 2012. I respect your reasoning and I can even understand your stand on it. For your sake and people like you I hope CiG will deliver but my gut tells me they wont. Nothing else to do then wait and hope I guess.
Well, we can't really equate the "being a pilot" bit of both games. In ED (to which I'm assuming you're referring) the pilot is just a customised model that's generally only really visible taking screenshots when not in action. In SC, it's exiting your ship, engaging EVA and moving about and fighting on foot. If you gave most people a choice..
(...ok, they'd pick the one that was actually released. Ok, never mind.
)ED and SC have always been on very different paths, and IMO it's fascinating to watch both. You could plot a "features vs time" graph, and ED would be a long, steady, straight line, while SC would be a very shallow exponential curve with a sudden, big upsurge when (if) it releases. I'd always assumed ED's "Launch and patch/upgrade" approach would be easily the better approach - a far less ambitious product, with a (let's be fair) fairly underwhelming initial release, but could be built on steadily once the foundations were in place. There's nothing like having an actual product 'out there' to kill the doubters.
I'm not entirely convinced ED's path is 'right' either, as people get frustrated with the slow rate of improvements, and the shallowness of existing gameplay. In years to come, people will do case studies on the two games and approaches. In between asking when SC is going to launch.. and wondering if we'll ever be able to leave our ships in ED.
Well, we can't really equate the "being a pilot" bit of both games. In ED (to which I'm assuming you're referring) the pilot is just a customised model that's generally only really visible taking screenshots when not in action. In SC, it's exiting your ship, engaging EVA and moving about and fighting on foot. If you gave most people a choice..
(...ok, they'd pick the one that was actually released. Ok, never mind.
ED and SC have always been on very different paths, and IMO it's fascinating to watch both. You could plot a "features vs time" graph, and ED would be a long, steady, straight line, while SC would be a very shallow exponential curve with a sudden, big upsurge when (if) it releases. I'd always assumed ED's "Launch and patch/upgrade" approach would be easily the better approach - a far less ambitious product, with a (let's be fair) fairly underwhelming initial release, but could be built on steadily once the foundations were in place. There's nothing like having an actual product 'out there' to kill the doubters.
I'm not entirely convinced ED's path is 'right' either, as people get frustrated with the slow rate of improvements, and the shallowness of existing gameplay. In years to come, people will do case studies on the two games and approaches. In between asking when SC is going to launch.. and wondering if we'll ever be able to leave our ships in ED.
CIG is evidence of what FD future could be if they chase that walking dream people have. SC's ship gameplay is less skillful, has less mechanics and is crazy shallow. But has CIG worked on this? No, instead they are working on a walking game, and have for years. All of the fake demo's that CIG have created are about talking around an empty planet, not about ship gameplay. When do you think CIG will start to focus on ship gameplay? When will the space sim be created?
Funny thing about this is that ED actually had the larger scope, and it dwarfed SC as FD plans to add everything that CIG do. It is just easier to dismiss a real game then a game in your imagination. People think ED gameplay is shallow, but what do people think will happen if they try to add legs? It will be even more shallow. Just look at the comments concerning adding legs to ED and most people have this wild idea that it will contain deep and skyrim like gameplay. It takes years and a massive amount of work to make something like that, so you can either keep your shallow space game and get a shallow walking game, or FD could expand on their ship gameplay and make it great.
The reality is that a game can not have everything, there is only so much time and man hours that can be put into a game. So what has to give? Do you just let everything be shallow, and chase the everything dream? People in this forum sure think so. Or do you focus your development and produce something amazing.
Bwahahaha. So As I predicted, just before a show or deadline a journo has appeared and seen the "secret build", thought it was awesome and reassured the fans of the future. But sadly, it's now 2 weeks later and won't quite be coming to your hands any time soon...or ever.
Eh, every time there's been a show an insider/journalist/streamer/privileged backer has reported about being in the secret sanctum/seen the secret build/talked to CR and said how everything is on track and awesome (and previously they were unsure) but now they're confident the game is going to be released...
This has been SOP for years.
All this has happened before and will happen again.
I can respect that. Initially, I did as well, to a point. However, it seems every decision upper management at CIG/RSI made was the wrong one. Choosing CryEngine, multiple MOCAP reshoot after reshoot, expansion into non-KS items while cutting out promised (and fully funded) content. Selling ships that are not available to this day, only 15% of promised items in-game and I'm not aware of a single deadline that has been met. Not to mention, open development, behind closed doors while changing the ToS to a unilateral agreement that benefits CIG/RSI. When the owner of the company can't even play his own game even with a support staff on-call, there's issues.
This would be just a tragedy if it were a regular project, but with hundreds of million of dollars misspent and nothing to show for it, SC is a train wreck that will impact on KS funded games in a powerfully negative way.
really? do you honestly think that? I would say many people *hope for* (I dont expect much these days) something like Hellion
http://store.steampowered.com/app/588210/HELLION/
although hopefully with less dependance on multiplayer / PvP and some AI (my hopes i cant speak for others)!.
bear in mind this is from a fairly small team so am not sure why FD would be incapable of building something similar into elite. imo when many of us think of space legs, we do not think of COD or - your example - skyrim... indeed, if its on a planets surface i would ague that is not even "space legs" EVA would be a better fit to come 1st imo, exploring wrecked ships and fixing our own.... much like the above hellion.
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