Star Citizen Thread v6

[frostypaw]

That's good, and I'm glad you've expressed that because that's not the impression I got from reading a lot of posts here.

Even if it all doesn't pan out, the further they get in the project, the better. They might hit a snag in the limitations of current hardware technology, but they and we won't know that unless they push the limits of what's possible.

People say it repeatedly again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again.

But cast any doubt on the dream and folk get cast as "the enemy" by the fanatics and all logic goes out the window.

We already know the limits - multiplayer games have been around a long time. Folk like EvE/Battlefield/Planetside/etc have all been trying to get huge numbers of players into instances for a long time - the problems are well known and understood. When explained people who are often very well versed in the subject are told they know nothing about it and that they should use their imagination etc

It's not a very productive cycle. In the end scope gets cut and a whole system of fully explorable planets full of crysis level detail turns into just hte moons of crusader with 4/5 POI and we're all told that this was actually what was meant in the first place, all our memories and youtube records and direct CR quotes are wrong and just our imaginations and that we don't understand game development again.

 

[xyphic]

To all the Nay sayers, I'd like for you to consider this.

Have you people thought about all the good that will come about if the RSI team succeeds in the Star Citizen endeavor?

Yes, it'll be great. Have you thought about what bad could happen if CIG fail? It would severely dent confidence in crowdfunding (games in particular) and would make publishers even more reticent to throw money at space games. The little renaissance that we're experiencing right now would come to an abrupt end.

Star Citizen is a monumental risk. If CIG pull it off, it could be glorious. If it fails the repercussions could be felt for decades.

They are taking on a monumental task that has never been done before. A win for them is a win in the application and development of flight simulator and virtual world building software for everybody.

A leap forward in knowledge, understanding, and experience in all related technologies.

I know you don't want to hear this, but CIG haven't yet shown anything particularly innovative. They've shown that they can make detailed, shiny ship models and that they can make an FPS engine do FPS gameplay. But they're yet to show that they can deliver a robust, seamless MMO experience. For all the bluster about new netcode I'm yet to see any sort of demonstration to the effect that they can make a set of worlds that feel populous and alive.

Sure, they have lots of good ideas but so do all game designers. I bet if you talked to any game designer about what they'd like to do, they could describe to you a huge, immersive game world packed with variety of gameplay where no two gaming sessions felt alike; a game that you could spend all your time in. But going from that nebulous game design to something that can actually be implemented with limitations on network infrastructure, processing power, development resource, etc. is incredibly difficult, if not impossible. The problem is that when the game designer is the boss and doesn't like to hear "no" as an answer, all you'll hear is that this miraculous marvel of a game is going to appear, until the point where the game is canned or releases in a state that's nothing like you imagined (see: NMS).

I still think that Star Citizen could be a great game. But I also still think that it needs focus. It needs a solid gameplay loop, and it needs the limitations of the technology (particularly networking) to be fed back into the design so as to rein in some of the ideas that simply aren't feasible. My fear is that the scope will continue to spiral outward and the developers simply won't be able to come close to hitting the targets they've been given.

 

[Calrissian]

So, you're basically saying, nobody can prove that 8v8 is possible? :O

On Alienware machines.... even running shadowplay, which barely takes any resources.????

There are enough videos on YouTube that show 8v8 is a reality. I think you should take the time and search for yourself.

 

[Thargon]

People say it repeatedly again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again.

But cast any doubt on the dream and folk get cast as "the enemy" by the fanatics and all logic goes out the window.

We already know the limits - multiplayer games have been around a long time. Folk like EvE/Battlefield/Planetside/etc have all been trying to get huge numbers of players into instances for a long time - the problems are well known and understood. When explained people who are often very well versed in the subject are told they know nothing about it and that they should use their imagination etc

It's not a very productive cycle. In the end scope gets cut and a whole system of fully explorable planets full of crysis level detail turns into just hte moons of crusader with 4/5 POI and we're all told that this was actually what was meant in the first place, all our memories and youtube records and direct CR quotes are wrong and just our imaginations and that we don't understand game development again.

Exactly this.

Look at EVE, it's a military grade cluster, requiring a lot of serious hardware to run. They manage admirably with thousands of players in the same instance and area. However, even then, it crawls to a syrup (time dilation). Well known technical issues. I don't think CIG can overcome this. There's nothing revolutionary that they've invented so far.

 

[Marak]

That's because your looking at is as "I bought something and I want my product." I totally understand the angst behind that.

I looked at it as funding a research project because they are attempting to do something that hasn't been done before. This goes back to my statements of a"Charitable Contribution."

R&D takes time, money, and patience. Things have to be sorted out to learn.

I'm being serious here,

I genuinely applaud all the Star Citizen backers who unfailingly and unapologetically keep giving money to CIG.

If CIG do pull off the dream game, it will be thanks to all the backers who never lost faith. If these guys continue to give CIG money and raise enough to allow Chris Roberts to make his dream come true, I will get a good game to play.

I admit I'm being incredibly selfish, but I AM serious.

 

[milligna]

I looked at it as funding a research project because they are attempting to do something that hasn't been done before.

Every game is something that hasn't been done before. Chris Roberts' flatulence doesn't magically smell differently than everyone else's.

 

[ZeeWolf]

Yes, it'll be great. Have you thought about what bad could happen if CIG fail? It would severely dent confidence in crowdfunding (games in particular) and would make publishers even more reticent to throw money at space games. The little renaissance that we're experiencing right now would come to an abrupt end.

Star Citizen is a monumental risk. If CIG pull it off, it could be glorious. If it fails the repercussions could be felt for decades.

I'm not sure if the Star Citizen story so far hasn't further cemented what publishers (anecdotally) may have thought post Freelancer. That the genre is niche' (difficult to break 2M units) with gamers having unrealistic expectations around what can be delivered.

A city based car stealing game has a fairly definable scope, something with sexy wizards doing side quests maybe? Gamers kind of know where those games might begin and end.

Space games? Space games should have all of the above and make it configurable. The very definition of space is un-grounded. It's literally everything above you.

Star Citizen has promised the AAA budget space game of unlimited scope. Why would any publisher bother to pony up competing cash when Star Citizen has demonstrated what can't be done with $150m and counting? For what? 2M unit sales? The fans literally go out and review bomb anything else in the genre that isn't blessed with the marketing friendly name of Chris Roberts anyway, a hang-over of some clever marketing by Origin systems some thirty years before. The genre seems to be stuck in rose tinted glasses mode.

 

[CmdrKull]

That's because your looking at is as "I bought something and I want my product." I totally understand the angst behind that.

I looked at it as funding a research project because they are attempting to do something that hasn't been done before. This goes back to my statements of a"Charitable Contribution."

R&D takes time, money, and patience. Things have to be sorted out to learn.

Maybe my pessimism leaks into my understanding, but it seems like you're saying that other companies, other teams, other Games will benefit from this CF even if nothing of value is ever released (assuming we agree that currently, nothing of value has been released)

Granted, team members will disperse and tales of the project will spread, but you aren't expecting some grand gesture "the information wants to be free" open sourcing of their spaghetti-code are you?

So really, what it reads like to me is that years from now, after countless teams try to float the idea of a space-based MMO and are shot down because SC leaves such a bad taste, someone, somewhere will persevere, put in the time and the know-how and come up with something workable....

And you want to give the credit to Chris Roberts?

 

[Calrissian]

To all involved parties.

I'm not a fanatic nor does one need to be to fund a project. That's what every person is doing when they buy into the SC project. If for some reason you didn't understand that, then the person you should be angry with is yourself.

Again, they are attempting to do something nobody else has done. They are going to have problems. I think it is rational for that to be expected.

Even if the project fails. I personally see it as a charitable contribution and a tax write-off even if I don't get my money back for whatever reason.

I recently attended a presentation/seminar on 3D sound. (Notice I didn't say Surround Sound because 3D sound isn't surround sound.)

Who do you think is interested in this technology for implementation? On the surface it doesn't look like a big breakthrough but the advancements are in the coding which have made it a reality through today's hardware technology. SC is along those same lines.

Get your money back ASAP (if you already haven't) if your not satisfied with not receiving your product. Invest and wait if you understand that you are funding a project.

 

[Stigbob]

Imagine "Skyrim/Witcher"

OK, <closes eyes, thinks of skyrm, imagines CIG being involved> I fell out of the cart in a t-pose, and then the game crashed, a decade from now.

 

[ZeeWolf]

What does "nobody has ever done this before" actually mean?

I'm not sure it's an excuse you could apply to any other professional, there are a multitude of research companies, games developers, defense, health care, space exploration technology teams out there doing stuff that has "never been done before" and somehow they manage to get by without mentioning it every freeckin' day

 

[Calrissian]

I'm being serious here,

I genuinely applaud all the Star Citizen backers who unfailingly and unapologetically keep giving money to CIG.

If CIG do pull off the dream game, it will be thanks to all the backers who never lost faith. If these guys continue to give CIG money and raise enough to allow Chris Roberts to make his dream come true, I will get a good game to play.

I admit I'm being incredibly selfish, but I AM serious.

That's cool. Thanks for your honesty and I totally understand. You bought something, you want it, and don't think your going to get it.

If I wasn't so involved in audio research and technicality, I'd likely be more inclined to view all this as a consumer.

 

[frostypaw]

I recently attended a presentation/seminar on 3D sound. (Notice I didn't say Surround Sound because 3D sound isn't surround sound.)

Ambisonics was invented in the 70's and has been possible since then. A proper B-format recording can be used to retrospectively move a virtual microphone/listener all around the performance space without limit.

SC is indeed along those lines - which bit do you think is new and special about SC?

It's also worth addressing that these aren't donations or charitable contributions that you can write off your tax, and you'll get in serious trouble if you try. They're pre-purchases and that's why people have been able to get refunds.

 

[Asp Explorer]

OK, <closes eyes, thinks of skyrm, imagines CIG being involved> I fell out of the cart in a t-pose, and then the game crashed, a decade from now.

You are lucky you got as far as that. I had to suffer an unskippable 20 minute tour of the cart, and exploded upon reaching the first landing zone where the only textures that would render were underpants.

Now I have to wait another 30 minutes for it to load up again before I can give it another try, and go through that tour again

 

[Thargon]

You are lucky you got as far as that. I had to suffer an unskippable 20 minute tour of the cart, and exploded upon reaching the first landing zone where the only textures that would render were underpants.

Now I have to wait another 30 minutes for it to load up again before I can give it another try, and go through that tour again

Asp Asp... you are such an Asp

edit: fixed a typo

 

[Calrissian]

Ambisonics was invented in the 70's and has been possible since then. A proper B-format recording can be used to retrospectively move a virtual microphone/listener all around the performance space without limit.

SC is indeed along those lines - which bit do you think is new and special about SC?

It's also worth addressing that these aren't donations or charitable contributions that you can write off your tax, and you'll get in serious trouble if you try. They're pre-purchases and that's why people have been able to get refunds.

You are totally un or misinformed. Given that this thread is about SC, I won't address this with you.

 

[Komemiute]

https://youtu.be/3l-epO6oUHE?t=425 Last gamescon presentation 2016



Now the version being shoved at suckers


I probably shouldn't swear.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/4pQcn2L65J0/hqdefault.jpg

We have always been at war with Eastasia!

 

[Stigbob]

You are lucky you got as far as that. I had to suffer an unskippable 20 minute tour of the cart, and exploded upon reaching the first landing zone where the only textures that would render were underpants.

Now I have to wait another 30 minutes for it to load up again before I can give it another try, and go through that tour again

But at $700 bucks the cart comes with LTI, so I suggest getting under it when the worm arrives.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

To all the Nay sayers, I'd like for you to consider this.

Have you people thought about all the good that will come about if the RSI team succeeds in the Star Citizen endeavor? They are taking on a monumental task that has never been done before. A win for them is a win in the application and development of flight simulator and virtual world building software for everybody.

A leap forward in knowledge, understanding, and experience in all related technologies.

All the good? What? Its going to cure world hunger or something?

If the game is released in the form advertised, then it will be a miracle on a par with the feeding of the 5000. But ok, for that to happen CIG need another 5-10 years probably (but that's probably ok because CIG only really started development in 2017 and everyone knows AAA games take at least 5 years to develop, and CIG is stretching the bounds of everything!!!).

Ok, let's be more realistic and say they aim for a MVP with a possible release date somewhere late 2018, possibly 2019, although that's still going to be fairly bare bones. Then yes, some good will come out of it, backers will finally have a full "release" to play with where they can start progressing their characters, gaining credits and spending them, and can perhaps then take a more relaxed approach to the remaining content that will then be released over the following years. I think this is the most optimistically realistic scenario.

On the worst case side, and they completely fail, it will be a dark day for crowdfunding. Regulators would jump at the chance to impose more regulations on crowdfunding and SC's failure could be the trigger for that. That could be the death knell for crowdfunding. There is great opportunity for damage here. It would of course also be bad for backers, as their money will simply go poof, and all they would be left with would be their JPGs. The big publishers will see it as a big win as well.

By doing this project, CR is taking a big risk not just for himself and the backers, but the whole industry in general.

Do I think that if CIG can somehow pull this off it will be the amazing thing you suggest? No way. Yeah, in some ways it might be good showing others that it is possible to do a massive game, and who knows, with competent management and better experience, such a thing might be possible in much less time, But will SC be this awesome game that is all things to all men? Not likely.

I'm already highly doubtful that if CIG do manage to make the game CR wants to make, i will play it. The helmet flip demo back in 2013(?) made me already wonder, but the more i hear, the more i think this is not going to be the space game for me. Too many ideas that seem rooted in rule of cool and not the rule of enjoyment. But time will tell I suppose.

If they do it, in the end they will have a decent AAA game that cost much more to make than any other AAA game ever made. That would make a mockery of CR's claim that he could make a AAA game with 1/5 of the cost that it would be with a publisher.

Groundbreaking technolgies? LOL, reinventing the wheel is not usually groundbreaking. Yeah, they are doing some fancy stuff, but lots of development companies do fancy stuff with new games and new technologies, and i've never seen any of them make as much fuss about them and used those technologies as an excuse for delays like CIG.

I'd say the only thing truly groundbreaking about the development of SC is on the social side (and its going to make for some great psych studies one day), on how to get so many to people to fork over millions of dollars by selling them a dream.

 

[milligna]

Even if the project fails. I personally see it as a charitable contribution and a tax write-off even if I don't get my money back for whatever reason.

It isn't a charitable contribution. They collect VAT on it, these are simply sales. It isn't a tax write-off either, but do tell why you think that is.

I recently attended a presentation/seminar on 3D sound. (Notice I didn't say Surround Sound because 3D sound isn't surround sound.)

Who do you think is interested in this technology for implementation? On the surface it doesn't look like a big breakthrough but the advancements are in the coding which have made it a reality through today's hardware technology. SC is along those same lines.

It isn't a big breakthrough. People have been experimenting like that for decades to little interest. Only now is VR making people look again at "3D" audio because it's useful for spatial positioning. A lot of people here understand the field and work in it, don't try to pass yourself off as an expert because you saw a presentation.

Get your money back ASAP (if you already haven't) if your not satisfied with not receiving your product. Invest and wait if you understand that you are funding a project.

It isn't an investment. It's just giving Chris Roberts free money.