Do we think passenger mission payouts will get nerfed in 2.4?

[Daniel Cloudsifter]

I don't think the long range ones are excessive, the exploration ones I mean. Haven't really done enough of the short range ones to have an opinion, I don't even look at them on the mission board usually.

I banked 7 million from three wartime planetary data scan missions tonight, on the board at Van Royen in HIP 10716 and were to scan the next moon over which is about 5 LS away. Took about 10 minutes. *shrugs*

Edit: To answer the question though which was 'do we think they will' not 'do we think they should' I'd say yes but not drastically.

Yeah, I have a favorite system (which I won't reveal) where nearly all the factions LOVE to give out these scan missions. I usually have five or 6 stacked (for various factions) at a time for 1.1 to 2 million credits a piece. Easy money and a good way to get certain types of data for Engineering (Adaptive Encryptors > G5 Fast KWS/DPS).

And several systems near that one constantly have factions that fight it out - often giving me 19 mil, 12 mil, 8 mil, and 3 mil to go kill their enemies. All the same enemies, so I'm completing them all at once. Usually, I only take these if I'm also trying to get the faction rep up. I just don't need the money and the hours of combat can get tedious (though Elite SLF pilots can help speed it up).

I think the pay on passenger missions are fine - both the short range VIP tours (which seem to be in the 2-7 million credit range) - and the long range tours. I do want to do these, and have both a Dolphin and Orca set up for it, but I just never get around to it.

I should point out that in all cases, the big $$$ is attached to higher rank missions. Personally, I think the rates are all fine. And if people want to go do that stuff at Quince (is that the right place?) or do Sothis/Ceos runs for big cash payouts, that's fine too.

 

[verminstar]

The short range missions pay a helluva lot more than the long range...best I could find whilst being allied to every faction was 41m fer what would be a 52kly round trip. Thats further than colonia and back...thats why its easy to mock and scorn considering 3 and 4 waypoint trips of what is still under a thousand ly total distance nets ye anywhere between 8 and 11m. In a dbe, I can do that in under an hour. the RTB fer a cuppa and a smoke, log in and ouit a few times to refresh the mission boards and away we go again.

Could ye do those at the rate of 4 in a single session? If so, then ye just earned more credits than if yer attempting the 52kly round trip...a lot more.

Of course they will nerf the talking cargo...if its easy to make credits on anything, then someone somewhere will decide its not the way the game is supposed to be played and they will demand frontier do the right thing. Thats usually what happens.

Bottom line being that if ye know how to make a lotta money in a short space of time, dont tell anyone about it ^

 

[Starbucknaked]

They nerf income sources like it's a subscription game or F2P where it's in their interest to keep you playing as long as possible. Makes no sense.

 

[Xenith]

You can fit six of those in a Conda, which is the reason they're constantly reducing their values.
You get paid handsomely for scan data on that trip, too. Doing it for profits, you'll make 500,000 cr per jump, scanning on average one planet per jump.

Thing is, most people aren't flying a Conda, and most people won't reach it if they keep nerfing credit income with every update. If the game was a F2P MMO, then I'd understand why they were doing it, I'd still disagree with it mind you, but I'd understand why it was being done. But this isn't a F2P MMO, so what the devs are up to is a damned mystery.

 

[Lightspeed]

Once they introduce high paying Thargoid missions, all others will be massively nerfed, then it will "fixed" in a couple months.

There's a thought "Secretive scientist (who doesn't like being scanned) wants to go out to the Pleiades and meet aliens" 50 billion credits

 

[Bunkerkind Anni]

they don't need to fix the payout of them,
they need to fix whats wrong:

1. tourists missions are finished if you visist ANY visitor beacon in the system that is last in their chain
(these are two bugs in one sentence)
2. exploration rank is given by the money earned from the mission, not by the "exploration" you did
3. all that matters is scanning that visitor beacon. so for planetary beacons, if you have A-Grade long range sensors, you may finish them from 10km+ away from the actual location,
or if there is another space visitor beacon, you do point 1 - scan that one because it will count and is faster

4. remote system with no beacon in hundred LY distance to choose from, should not pay more then 100k credits per mission

5. there should be a fitting paintjob for economy class fitted passenger ships:

 

[Cervantes01]

If not nerfing, then the pay for......everything else needs a big rise.

I'm doing some edge-of-the-bubble trading now but not for the money. If i wanted that I'd be Ubering passengers for 2M+ per trip.

Yes, 2.3 saw my income collapse with the nerf to transport missions.

 

[Xenith]

Yes, 2.3 saw my income collapse with the nerf to transport missions.

It's tragic that they keep messing with income, when there are far more pressing issues with the game. Also amazing how quickly they can 'fix' a credit 'exploit', yet take months or even years to address a simple bug which has been reported hundreds of times.

 

[duckofdeath]

Thing is, most people aren't flying a Conda, and most people won't reach it if they keep nerfing credit income with every update. If the game was a F2P MMO, then I'd understand why they were doing it, I'd still disagree with it mind you, but I'd understand why it was being done. But this isn't a F2P MMO, so what the devs are up to is a damned mystery.

According to EDSM 10% use the Anaconda. That's only topped by the AspX. Like I also said, the credit nerf for long range exploration missions were massively compensated in 2.3 with the new scan payouts for goldilocks zone planets. Half a million credit per jump, something you can triple using power play, that made exploration, done for credits, one of the most profitable "jobs" in the galaxy, if you discount exploits.

 

[Red Anders]

Thing is, most people aren't flying a Conda, and most people won't reach it if they keep nerfing credit income with every update. If the game was a F2P MMO, then I'd understand why they were doing it, I'd still disagree with it mind you, but I'd understand why it was being done. But this isn't a F2P MMO, so what the devs are up to is a damned mystery.

Well rightly or wrongly they are doing what game developers have done since long before F2P MMOs even existed, which is trying to exercise a degree of control over the rate at which players can access content. It's not really that wacky and unheard of, more that some other games use more sophisticated methods than simply throttling earnings. Every single RPG I have ever played has done it though, as has every space game that I can remember involving trading.

 

[Stealthie]

they don't need to fix the payout of them,
they need to fix whats wrong....

This.

Your picture reminded me of what's fundamentally wrong with passenger missions in ED.

There is absolutely NO reason to own a Beluga or an Orca.
Theoretically, you can get over 150 passengers onto a Beluga - which sounds terrific.
There's a maximum of 10 slots for passenger cabins (and one of those is probably going to be used for a fuel-scoop), though, which means the maximum number of missions you can do at once is reduced to 9 - which isn't quite so terrific.

The problem is, very few passengers want to go to the same place, which renders the idea of a large passenger ship UTTERLY redundant.

If you're going to have to zig-zag all over the bubble, dropping people off at their destinations, you might as well just do it in a Dolphin, taking on new missions every time you drop somebody off and a cabin becomes vacant.


The way to "fix" passenger missions would be to create proper "commuter routes" and "tourist routes" in ED, in the same way that it has trade routes.
You need to know that you can turn up at, say, Cubeo and be able to fill up your ship with commuters going to Achenar.
Alternatively, you need to be able to turn up at, say, Sol and know that you can load your ship up with tourists who want to visit Tau Ceti.

If I turn up at Cubeo in a Dolphin, I might only be able to take 2 or 3 contracts, worth Cr1m each.
If I turn up in a Beluga, however, I should be able to pick up 8 or 9 similar contracts and earn 5 times as much as I can in a Dolphin.

Mass Transport doesn't operate by allowing you to fly one rich customer to the Maldives in a Boeing 747.
It operates by allowing you to load a Boeing 747 up with 400 people who ALL want to go to Majorca.

ED needs to reflect this philosophy.

 

[Vasea Azure]

ED needs to reflect this philosophy.

Very good point, I did lots of passenger missions but never felt the need to buy any of the "big liners", Beluga especially just to travel with ONE guy inside. Some sort of mass tourist routes would be a welcome change.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

I'd agree it basically just needs a

1) structural checkover and a
2) common-sense checkover

Issues that arise from the current mechanics :

- places with only a single or very few Tourist Spot locations create a local "black hole" for VIP transports, causing a payment skew to the upside (Time invested vs. Credits gained when compared to other activities)

- places with no L Landing Pad aren't ever a destination for Passenger Missions

- Tourist Spots are too scarse
- Procedurally chosen Tourist Mission Destinations could easily fill in that blank
--> Game locations such as Conflict Zones or RES'es and remain there for x Minutes (currently only an occaisional Mission wrinkle with CZ)
--> or get within x Ls of any Mission-chosen Planet and drop into normal Space there for x Minutes, i.e. Ammonia Worlds or ELWs (VIP Explorer to take scientific Data)
--> land the Ship on any Mission-chosen Planet (VIP Explorer to take scientific Data)
--> or visit special Assets such as Mega-Ships or those large Shipyards

- payment for Long Range and Very Long Range PAX (those asking to return) is essentially a joke, 45M for a 44000LY round-trip? Yeah, sure. That's similar to taking a 800Cr Courier Mission to Hutton Orbital. Can be done - but just isn't a money-earner.

- the exclusive nature of Luxury Cabins and the few Ships that can carry them doesn't exist. It's indeed of no benefit to run a Dophin, Orca or Beluga if a T6, AspX, Python or Anaconda get the same jobs done or are even better at it

A bunch of new PAX types could be used to easily create new branches and widen up the selection of PAX Missions :
- Planetary Salvage PAX, land on Planet and scoop something up i.e. off a Crashsite in legal and illegal variants (very similar to TipOffs)
- Space-borne Salvage PAX, scout a location (directions by PAX) and drop into USS to legally or illegally Salvage
- Combat PAX, demanding you to take offensive action in various scenarios
- Escapee, you're being chased by (Authority, Opposing Faction, Bounty Hunters, Killer-Squads, Aliens, whatever), deliver PAX without blowing up
- Colonists (bulk PAX requiring medium to long-range Dropoff)
- Economy Archetype bulk PAX (workers and specialists requiring all-ranges Dropoff into specific Station/Outpost/Planetary base with its respective Economy)
- Commuters (local area bulk PAX not filling slots but PAX seats individually, rich commuters have more distant locations but pay better and require better Business/1st Class/Luxury cabins)

Do that and suddenly the entire Galaxy offers itself as Passenger Destination AND it makes the Passenger Missions far more flexible and diverse at the same time.

 

[Bunkerkind Anni]

oh, and while we are on it,
the passenger mission interface

half baked copy&paste of the mission board - excluding the filter.

IMHO there needs to be something similar to the comodity market for passsengers,
where you get a list of passengers, sorted by what class they want to travel and what kind they are (refugees, buissness, etc...)
and instead of the "imported from / exportet to" column, you see where they want to travel.

ofc, each passenger is counted as "unique" cargo that can only be "sold" at the destination

 

[Xenith]

Well rightly or wrongly they are doing what game developers have done since long before F2P MMOs even existed, which is trying to exercise a degree of control over the rate at which players can access content. It's not really that wacky and unheard of, more that some other games use more sophisticated methods than simply throttling earnings. Every single RPG I have ever played has done it though, as has every space game that I can remember involving trading.

Incremental adjustments are fine, massive swings one way or the other are not. This isn't a subscription based game, there is very little reason to keep people grinding for months at a time, especially when the core game-play loop is so limited. Also, if you keep removing legitimate ways for people to make money, then they WILL resort to exploiting, and they would not be wrong for doing so either. What other options do they have at that point, other than quit the game?

 

[Colonel Kenney]

They always take away. They don't give. They should be doubling the pay. Just increase the costs of other things. Stop nerfing and start adjusting properly. Taking away ticks off players. If none of the professions can ever help you hit paydirt you are grinding for no reason. Make the game rewarding and challenging. Not frustrating and unrewarding.

 

[Jenner]

ED needs to reflect this philosophy.

That is a really good idea! It would definitely make a lot more sense, I agree. It's something that I think isn't all that intensive from a development standpoint, either. (At least I don't think so.)

 

[ShimEnki]

They always take away. They don't give. They should be doubling the pay. Just increase the costs of other things. Stop nerfing and start adjusting properly. Taking away ticks off players. If none of the professions can ever help you hit paydirt you are grinding for no reason. Make the game rewarding and challenging. Not frustrating and unrewarding.

Agreed, but good luck on that, and on what CMDR Falconfly said in

2) common-sense checkover

In fact---the betting window is open over there...and I'm lining up to bet moderate to big that the opposite will be infect-imented.

 

[Stealthie]

That is a really good idea! It would definitely make a lot more sense, I agree. It's something that I think isn't all that intensive from a development standpoint, either. (At least I don't think so.)

Also, while I'm at it...

As well as passenger cabins, there should be "coach seat" modules for commuter missions.

When you take on cargo you don't have to allocate, say, 19t of biowaste to a 32t cargo rack and then the remaining 13t of space remains empty.
You can take on another mission to carry, say, 11t of gold and stick it in the same cargo rack along with the biowaste.

Passenger missions could/should work in a similar way.
There could be missions where the passenger DOES require a cabin and other (probably short-haul) missions where they're willing to fly coach.

That way, you could set up your Beluga with, perhaps, a bit of cargo space, 2 or 3 cabins and fill the rest of it with coach seats.
As a result of that, you'd actually be able to earn credits relative to the size of your ship.
Even if a commuter mission only paid, say, Cr50,000, when you could carry up to 100-odd passengers at a time, it'd be worth a stab, expecially if there WERE proper commuter routes where you could pick up and deliver people constantly along the way.

 

[Shadowdancer]

Do you feel weird talking of yourself in the first person plural?